WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Barber Greene]

This is great news! Hopefully the WW students will come out and support the women like they did the men. Looking forward to some exciting games and good energy in Kachel.

[bulk19]

UWEC was the preseason pick to win the WIAC.

UWEC was the lowest rated WIAC team in the DIII poll virtually all season long - which tells us what the rest of the country thought.

Yes Tonya went one game further in the WIAC Tourney, but they lost to Point on her home court just like Keri did and was the first WIAC coach that was the #1 seed to not win the WIAC Tourney.

Sorry the Blugolds didn't meet up to your standards this season, Champ... but, as you say, just to point out a few things:

UWEC was predicted to win the conference this year, and did, with a 14-2 record, better than the 13-3 record Stout posted last year, when the Blue Devils were projected to win the WIAC, and were ranked higher in the D3 polls coming into the season and throughout the season than the 'Golds were this season...

Granted, the Blue Devils had a better record last year, at 23-6, compared to the 'Golds 23-7 this year, but that's because Simpson took out the 'Golds this year in the second round of the NCAA tournament, compared to the Blue Devils, who were ranked 15th heading into NCAA -post-season play, who were knocked out in Round One...

Also, regarding minutes played - I was happy to see our bench players get some PT on Feb. 28, this year, but I'm sure you would have rather seen them get more mintues than they did that night... But we had to make sure we pulled off another "upset," like we did in Stout in December....

Which active WIAC coach has highest lifetime winning percentage???

[bulk19]

Regarding last night's well-deserved win, a belated congrats to Simpson College fans who may be reading this; I had to take care of some housekeeping before posting my sentiments on that game... 

If you were a Blugold fan listening to the game last night, I hope you caught the post-game comments from Coach Englund... She didn't really talk much Xs and Os after what was a frustrating and disappointing conclusion to the season...

Rather, she gave heartfelt tributes to the four seniors on the team this year, who have helped bring the program to the top again... You could hear in her voice the pride in and love she has for them, not only as players, but more importantly, for them as people off the court as well... I hope they get a chance to hear those touching comments; thanks to Sully for making that happen...

Thanks to a terrific bunch - Kali Houselog, Rachel Mueggenborg, Amanda Zenner and Michelle Burns... and to the rest of the seniors behind the scenes who helped this team be successful this season as well...

[The Champ]

Sorry the Blugolds didn't meet up to your standards this season, Champ... but, as you say, just to point out a few things:

UWEC was predicted to win the conference this year, and did, with a 14-2 record, better than the 13-3 record Stout posted last year, when the Blue Devils were projected to win the WIAC, and were ranked higher in the D3 polls coming into the season and throughout the season than the 'Golds were this season...

Granted, the Blue Devils had a better record last year, at 23-6, compared to the 'Golds 23-7 this year, but that's because Simpson took out the 'Golds this year in the second round of the NCAA tournament, compared to the Blue Devils, who were ranked 15th heading into NCAA -post-season play, who were knocked out in Round One...

Also, regarding minutes played - I was happy to see our bench players get some PT on Feb. 28, this year, but I'm sure you would have rather seen them get more mintues than they did that night... But we had to make sure we pulled off another "upset," like we did in Stout in December....

Which active WIAC coach has highest lifetime winning percentage???

bulk

You're taking my entire post out of context.  I was comparing Coach Keri to Coach Tonya.  Mark Thomas was never even mentioned so it baffles me why you are spinning this into a Mark Thomas vs. Tonya Englund issue.   

But as you brought up the subject in an attempt to put Mark Thomas down, let me address the points YOU brought up:

1.  Last year Stout was picked to finish first.  They did.  They also won the WIAC Tourney.  This year UWEC was picked to finish first, they failed to win it outright, but TIED for first and then won home court on a coin flip.  After winnig the coin flip, they then becuame the first #1 seed to fail to win the WIAC Tourney.

2.  Your extra loss this year vs Stout's record last year is because you LOST at home in the WIAC tourney.  Had you WON that game you would have had 1 more win and 1 less loss.

3.  You won on Feb 28th.  I posted as much earlier.  I hope you enjoyed it.  Things might be different next year.

4.  Which coach took over a winning program?  Lisa Stone had an .824 winning percentage (277 wins - 59 losses) when she left (which by the way is best in the history of the WIAC) and Tonya has managed to bring that DOWN to about .731 if my math is correct after this season.  Do you realize that Tonya has managed to lose more games than Lisa, while her win total is OVER 100 games less than Lisa?

Mark Thomas took over a program where the previous coach had a .043 winning percentage (2 wins 44 losses).  The coach before that had a 4 win - 36 loss record (.100 winning percentage).  They didn't win a single game the year before Mark took over, yet he turned things around relatively quickly - winning 6 games his first year, 10 his second year and 15 his third year. 

So brag up Tonya's winning percentage if it makes you feel better.  Intelligent people can look at the circumstances and realize that the two coaches walked into totally different situations. 

FWIW, Mark will most likely get his 400th win before Tonya sees her 200th.  Mark could hit it next year (would take a great season) - the earliest Tonya can hit 200 would be the season after next.

If you want to continue this topic - let's do it via personal message - I don't think the rest of the posters need to see this.

[Greek Tragedy]

This is great news! Hopefully the WW students will come out and support the women like they did the men. Looking forward to some exciting games and good energy in Kachel.

The Whitewater men won the WIAC regular season title AND the WIAC Tourney title and they couldn't even come close to selling out the regional...just like two years ago when they hosted a 1st and 2nd round regional.  A complete joke, IMO.  I could see if this was Oshkosh at the Kolf that seats 5,000...but Kachel Gymnasium?  Come on.

[Storm-what?]

At least the 3rd straight year Simpson meets a UW school in the postseason. I think it was Stout last year? Too bad the Simpson Storm have to travel to Whitewater. But should be a good matchup none the less!

[badgerwarhawk]

BW - they aren't going to let you run the scoreboard/clock if they do host, are they???

Yes, I'll be on the clock.    Looking forward to some good games.   Some excellent teams coming in.  

Simpson must be pretty decent to have beaten Eau Claire.  I'm sure we'll have our work cut out for us.  



Ok, OS, Stevens Point draws better than WW but I don't think they put a bid in for this week's tournament.   You do have the coach of year though.   

[Storm-what?]

With about 5 minutes left Simpson was up 21 points. UW-EC made a nice late run to close the gap, but really the game was a little more one-sided than the score would suggest, I believe. The really tough thing about Simpson is they don't have that really stand out star. I mean, Whiton, a bit, but if you shut her down, they have about 10 girls that play a LOT of minutes and contribute each in their own way. It's hard to defend against. You'll see 4-5 players score 10+ points night after night.

[billys]

bulk- be careful getting into any type of discussion about MT on here ... some have him near deity status ... and there are a LOT of them to deal with

Thank you to WW for confirming my thought that you had the team best set for a National run. I really think they can win it all now; I was nervous seeing them hit the road, but now, no more road games! You can watch all the tape you want but you can't prepare for that style ... you better have a lot of darn good players and hope they miss some 3's to beat them. The familiarity in the league makes it harder for them in my opinion.

I wish I could get over this weekend but, alas, the girls state tournament falls on the same weekend.

[Greek Tragedy]

Ok, OS, Stevens Point draws better than WW but I don't think they put a bid in for this week's tournament.   You do have the coach of year though.   

BW,

I was talking men.  Point wouldn't sell out Quandt if the women played in there.  The obvious reason Point didn't put in a bid for this week's tourney is because THEY GOT KNOCKED OUT IN THE FIRST ROUND!...but thanks for reminding me! lol...good luck to the lady Warhawks.  I hope ONE WIAC team can do some good.

[bulk19]

Champ -

"UWEC was the preseason pick to win the WIAC.

UWEC was the lowest rated WIAC team in the DIII poll virtually all season long - which tells us what the rest of the country thought.

Yes Tonya went one game further in the WIAC Tourney, but they lost to Point on her home court just like Keri did and was the first WIAC coach that was the #1 seed to not win the WIAC Tourney."

You clearly intended to take a dig at the Blugolds' coach with these comments, and about the minutes she plays her players, suggesting she wasn't worthy of a COY Award this year. You always take your subtle jabs in a public forum first, and then expect me to PM you with my responses back... Not going to happen... And you apparently didn't think the Blugolds were very good this year, either, in your condescending remarks about this year's team and the rankings it attained.

So, for comparison's sake, I merely mentioned your beloved Blue Devils team of last year, which had the COY, but were 13-3, and 23-6 overall, compared to a UWEC record of 14-2 (last time I checked, when two teams tie for a conference championship, they are still conference champs... and 23-7 overall), in a tougher conference this year that had three teams with 23 or more wins...

Stout had one less loss on the season last year, because, despite being ranked higher last year than the 'Golds were this year, they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Our extra loss was because we played, and lost, an extra game; UWEC's seventh loss of the season was not in the WIAC tournament, as you suggest (that was #6) - it was in the second round of the NCAA tournament...

Yep. We won on Feb. 28; you whined about the officiating, if I recall correctly...  and won the other game at Zorn against Stout, too. And we "upset" the Blue Devils in your barn, too... I agree, things will probably be different next year. It's hard to beat the same team three times in one season....

And yep. TE came into a winning program; it's harder to stay on top than it is to get there.

[buf]

Just wanted to say congrats to the UWEC women's team.  I'm sure being able to get back into the tourney was a great feeling.  To the seniors...it was a pleasure watching you all. 

[Usuallywrong24]

I have not seen any other team play Superior, but my point was why was she pressing Superior when WW was up by 35.  I do not have a problem with minutes being played by starters, but pressing a team that could not handle the pressure when the game is cleary out of reach was unnecessary in my opinion.  So just to be clear, I had a problem with pressing when up by 35 in the second half, nothing else.  

Pressing is the style of play WW plays.  Why can't the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th teamers play like they practice?  They need to learn how to play WW style BB too.

The starters only averaged 6 minutes of play in the second half.  Every member of the team played.

Besides the starters, 5 additional players had double digit minutes in the game - and most of those minutes were in the first half.

WW played their game.  A team should never have to apologize for that.  Calling off the dogs is taking the starters out, or even taking the second tier players out.  But what else can a coach do?  Play with 3 players???  

I think the opposing team would take that as a bigger insult than losing by a large margin.

Champ, I never said that playing with 3 players is an option.  That would be rediculous and moronic.  I just thought that she would have had some compassion and call off the dogs in terms of pressing.  It is hard for me to believe that she does not have a half-court defense in her playbook.  You see in collegiate games all the time that coaches take off the press during blowouts.  Thomas, who is also known for pressing, would have called off the press, showing his class.  After looking at this game on tv, I find it hard to believe that she doesn't do this in every game. 

[Usuallywrong24]

And yep. TE came into a winning program; it's harder to stay on top than it is to get there.

Well put bulk.  This is why I have a ton of respect for SP, Stout, and EC in this league.  Those are the programs usually winning 20 games every season and flirting with the NCAA tournament. 

One last point about COY. Egner is the only coach in the league to have beaten seven of the eight other schools in the league twice, while splitting with Stout.  Against the two top teams in the WIAC, EC and WW, her team went 4-2, while WWs and ECs coaches went 2-3 against each other. 

[The Champ]

Stout had one less loss on the season last year, because, despite being ranked higher last year than the 'Golds were this year, they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Our extra loss was because we played, and lost, an extra game; UWEC's seventh loss of the season was not in the WIAC tournament, as you suggest (that was #6) - it was in the second round of the NCAA tournament...

bulk

I didn't want to do this, but if you won't take it offline...

Let me clarify this point for you one more time:

UWEC had 6 losses at the end of the WIAC Tourney this year.

Stout had 5 losses at the end of the WIAC Tourney last year.

Unless EC had gone on to win the National Championship, they were guaranteed to lose more games than Stout did last season.

What is so hard to understand about that?

And yep. TE came into a winning program; it's harder to stay on top than it is to get there.

Hmm...  Let's see how this plays out...  Has TE stayed on top?

TE took over from Lisa Stone (.824 winning percentage), who's average finish in the WIAC was 2nd and included 6 WIAC Championships in her 10 years.

Tonya's average finish - after losing all the Lisa Stone recruited players, is 4th in the WIAC, 3rd in her entire WIAC career.

Her conference record for the seasons she has coached, in order:  1st, 4th, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 3rd and now this past season tied for 1st - #1 seed determined by coin flip.  Winning percentage for TE's career is .728 - down from .824 by Stone.

Same period of time, Mark Thomas' record:

4th, 1st, 4th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 4th which equals an average finish of 2.5.  And these were all done with MT recruited players.

Did you notice how Mark hasn't dipped below a 4th place finish, and for the record, always had a winning record in the WIAC? 

Do you want to know what MT's winning percentage is over the same period of time?   That would be a .729 winning percentage. 

Is the best winning percentage in head to head competition a fair standard of measurement by your standards? 

How about the number of WIAC Championships won over the same period? 

How about the number of WIAC Tournament Championships over the same time period?

TE started her career with some of the best players in the WIAC.  Has she maintained the same level of success as her predecessor?  No.

Am I saying she's a terrible coach?  No.  Am I picking on your cherrypicking a single stat that gives a misleading image?  You're darn right I am.

MT took ove a program that was the dregs of the WIAC.  No prior UW Stout coach ever had a winning record. 

Recruiting for MT back in the day was like recruiting for UW Superior is now.  Taht's not a knock against UW Superior, it's a simple statement of fact.  It's pretty tough to get the most talented players to come to your school when you are a perenial loser, unless the girl REALLY wanted a major that only you had.

MT has elevated the standard of play at UW Stout.  Can you say the same about TE in EC?

Now once again, if you want to continue this debate - let's do it offline.