WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hoop_junkie]

I don't have any literature on this new rule change, however I've personally seen an electronic copy of the new rule and had it confirmed by more than one source.

On an unrelated note, in case we needed confirmation that the WIAC was the #1 conference in d3 for wbb, here's the actual proof...

IIAC coming in at 3rd, so we will see if WW playing all those schools will help their resume should they not win the conf tourney.

1 Wisconsin IAC 9 54 26 0.157 3.18 65.62 1.50 1.82 0.5787
2 NE Smalls 10 100 28 0.064 1.27 63.27 1.93 2.55 0.3518
3 Iowa IAC 9 46 35 -0.080 -1.44 65.89 -3.40 1.69 0.4447
4 University AA 8 66 21 -0.083 -2.51 61.23 0.19 3.68 0.4456
5 Northwest 9 39 40 -0.092 -1.98 61.22 0.73 2.86 0.3960
6 Ill & Wisc 8 51 36 -0.122 -3.38 62.76 -2.21 2.16 0.3159
7 Little East 8 60 26 -0.217 -4.52 58.84 0.57 3.45 0.4384
8 Minnesota IAC 12 15 23 -0.218 -4.95 61.55 -2.56 2.12 0.4457
9 Centennial 11 32 17 -0.311 -6.99 58.24 -1.29 1.04 0.4224
10 Michigan IAA 9 37 39 -0.370 -8.35 57.40 -1.81 2.30 0.3810
11 New Jersey A.C. 10 64 47 -0.371 -8.05 58.69 -2.81 2.06 0.2879
12 Midwest 10 38 29 -0.383 -8.70 59.17 -3.94 4.07 0.3925
13 Ohio AC 10 37 32 -0.394 -8.88 60.41 -5.35 2.14 0.4765
14 Landmark 8 58 27 -0.396 -9.40 58.16 -3.63 2.65 0.3453
15 NAIA 1 429 346 -0.410 -6.84 58.94 -1.84 2.71 1.0000
15 NAIA II 1 392 462 -0.410 -6.84 58.94 -1.84 2.71 1.0000
15 California Pacific 1 26 69 -0.410 -6.84 58.94 -1.84 2.71 1.0000
18 American SW 15 32 28 -0.416 -9.29 59.82 -5.17 4.76 0.3844
19 Mid Atlantic 15 80 66 -0.443 -9.72 57.76 -3.54 3.08 0.4262
20 Southern CAC 12 60 41 -0.449 -9.78 61.60 -7.45 4.68 0.4113
21 Capital 9 38 34 -0.497 -11.21 55.23 -2.50 2.58 0.3718
22 Southern Cal IAC 8 55 31 -0.524 -12.00 56.67 -4.73 1.35 0.3294
23 Empire 8 9 40 34 -0.552 -12.07 56.12 -4.25 1.45 0.4531
24 Liberty League 8 40 40 -0.582 -13.42 54.95 -4.44 1.51 0.5336
25 Mass St 7 48 35 -0.614 -14.25 55.70 -6.02 4.02 0.5582
26 Presidents' AC 10 37 32 -0.624 -13.68 55.43 -5.17 3.95 0.4458
27 Old Dominion AC 11 23 26 -0.649 -14.33 56.19 -6.59 2.11 0.3927
28 NCAA 438 433 283 -0.675 -15.03 55.53 -6.62 2.65 0.3514
28 NCAA III 438 255 294 -0.675 -15.03 55.53 -6.62 2.65 0.3514
30 Heartland CAC 9 31 47 -0.680 -14.68 56.60 -7.35 3.32 0.4666
31 SUNY AC 10 31 37 -0.683 -15.01 53.94 -5.01 2.17 0.4419
32 USA South 10 34 25 -0.685 -15.75 56.02 -7.83 2.74 0.3621
33 Northern Athletic 13 28 48 -0.704 -15.51 54.28 -5.86 1.53 0.4702
34 Upper Midwest 8 33 45 -0.773 -17.29 52.92 -6.27 0.46 0.3840
35 North Coast AC 9 30 48 -0.786 -17.36 54.64 -8.07 2.44 0.4313
36 NE W&M 10 25 38 -0.823 -18.27 50.12 -4.45 1.43 0.4094
37 Commonwealth Coast 14 82 75 -0.904 -20.32 52.53 -8.92 2.84 0.4276
38 Colonial States 11 44 50 -0.953 -20.91 54.53 -11.51 2.59 0.3217
39 St Louis IAC 10 32 62 -0.968 -21.37 53.38 -10.81 3.08 0.4587
40 Skyline 10 34 27 -1.064 -24.10 50.40 -10.56 2.02 0.3038
41 Great Northeast 13 75 84 -1.082 -24.16 51.72 -11.94 1.98 0.3436
42 Allegheny Mtn 11 18 32 -1.149 -25.55 50.52 -12.13 2.07 0.3021
43 City Univ NY 10 36 66 -1.150 -25.04 51.63 -12.73 1.55 0.3369
44 Great South 8 22 45 -1.248 -27.07 50.47 -13.60 4.63 0.2929
45 NCAA III Ind 21 98 222 -1.318 -28.87 48.58 -13.51 2.26 0.2571
46 North Atlantic 8 30 49 -1.338 -29.88 49.54 -15.48 4.28 0.3802
47 Pennsylvania AC 1 4 14 -1.351 -29.69 40.74 -6.49 3.57 1.0000
48 North Eastern AC 11 29 53 -1.550 -34.72 43.81 -14.59 4.72 0.3654
49 New England CC 9 14 57 -1.941 -43.08 39.69 -18.83 2.54 0.3491

[PRF2009A]

Congrats to Hirssig on player of the week.  Well deserved with becoming the Stout all time leading scorer.

What a week for her in addition to the 27 and 12 vs. point.


Another impressive week in the WIAC came from Frank at UWL.  Nice to see her putting up some #s on the offensive end.

vs. WW  17 pts 15 boards and 4 blocks
vs. Superior 15 pts 14 boards and 5 blocks

Not a bad week

[hoop_junkie]

Frank is a big time presence in the lane! When she is out of the game, UWL is a totally different team. I watched their game on Saturday at Superior and the difference in the game outside from UWL having more talent was just the size and strength of the UWL kids was on a different level then that of the Superior players. Physically, UWL just wore them down with their size.

[JMM]

So then for the WIAC  on WEDS:
Does EC get it's act together in time to beat SP, Nope - no playmakers; no win
Does Platville charge toward the tournament by beating WW,  No way Ray, WW all the way
Does Superior stun the super hot Blue Devils, Forget it - Devils skipping to high tourney seed.
Does La Crosse stay alive by going all that way to Oshkosh to win, Absolutely great coach
And the big winnr RF who gets a bye to rest for the big game at RF vs SP on Saturday - yes they will win
Stay tuned. I've been wrong so many times I'm getting dizzy

[closetothechest]

Wait, do you have River winning @ SP on Saturday?  It is Senior Day in Berg and I don't think Point has lost on Senior Day in a long long time. 

[The Champ]

Does La Crosse stay alive by going all that way to Oshkosh to win, Absolutely great coach

Just what do you base this on? 

I've met Lois and like her.  She is a wonderful person and a good coach.

But a great coach?

Through the end of last season, she has a .459 winning percentage overall, and a .363 in the WIAC.  Her best ever finish in the WIAC is 4th place in the 2005/06 season.  She only has 3 winning WIAC seasons (9 - 7 each time) out of 10 years in the league.

Now I'll give you the fact that La Crosse was not a good team when Lois got there.  And I'll give you the fact that she's had winning seasons in 3 of the last 4 years, and may, with her current 7 - 6 WIAC record, have a shot at a winning season this year to make it 4 out of 5.

But her last three games this season are UWO, UWRF and UWSP, so it's too early to say for sure.  If she wins all three, she finishes 10 - 6, which would be her career year in her 11th season.  But 10 - 6 may not even get her a home game in the WIAC tourney.  More likely is an 8 - 8 or a 9 - 7 finish.

Both Cindy Holbrook and Keri Carollo (9 and 7 complete seasons respectively) have already amassed more wins in fewer years than Lois and both Cindy and Keri have overall winning records.

I think Lois has improved the quality of play in La Crosse.  She seems to be able to recruit some of the better WBB players.  I think she is a good coach.

But I really want to know why you think she's a great coach.

[JMM]

Great Coach - guess it is a case of measures. Sitting right behind her and her bench during the Stout game, I could not help but to be impressed by the way she lead her team. So my definiton of great is not a measure of won and loss. Anyone can win 300 games in 20 years. If leadership can be observed, and if leadership is a sign of great, then, I see her as a great coach. Appreciate that some may view a statement of great as being a measure of statisitcs and proven fact.

[Just Bill]

Anyone can win 300 games in 20 years.

I've never disagreed with any statement more than this one.  A bum off the street can win 15 games a season over two decades?  That's a credibility wrecker, JMM.

[The Champ]

Great Coach - guess it is a case of measures. Sitting right behind her and her bench during the Stout game, I could not help but to be impressed by the way she lead her team. So my definiton of great is not a measure of won and loss. Anyone can win 300 games in 20 years. If leadership can be observed, and if leadership is a sign of great, then, I see her as a great coach. Appreciate that some may view a statement of great as being a measure of statisitcs and proven fact.

I asked you why you think Lois is a great coach.  And all you can tell me is that you observed her for one game and you were impressed?  ONE GAME?

Now mind you, you also told us that you didn't like the way Coach T kept Danielle DeWitt out of the game in the overtimes against La Crosse playing "head games" with her.  Well your powers of observation aren't the best, because we had to inform you that DeWitt fouled in regulation...

So excuse me if I don't give your one game impression a lot of value.

If anyone can win 300 games in 20 years, can I safely assume that anyone can win 150 games in 10 years?

By YOUR standards, Lois must be a terrible coach as she only had 117 wins in her 1st ten years in the WIAC, and won't even hit 150 at the end of her 11th season.  It's entirely possible that she may not hit 150 wins in 12 seasons.

You are impressed with Lois' style.  We understand that.  You can like her style all you want, but that doesn't make her a great coach.

Regardless of the win total, a great coach should be able to at least amass a winning record in her conference.  To accomplish that in the WIAC, Lois would have to win her next 44 WIAC games in a row to be 109 - 108.

That would be nearly 3 complete seasons without a WIAC loss.  That's never happened in the history of the WIAC, so if Lois were to do that I'd be jumping on the bandwagon saying Lois is a great coach.

In the meantime, I'll say Lois is a good coach that is working towards developing a good program at La Crosse.  It took her 7 years to get her first winning season in the WIAC.  Now she has 3 out of the last 4 years with winning records.  She has a chance of making it 3 in a row this season.  But maybe she should have at least one WIAC Conference Championship before considering her to be a great coach, or at least a 12 or 13 win season in the WIAC.

In sports they keep score for a reason.  Seems to me you want to turn the scoreboard off to protect your opinion. 

Well, your opinion isn't worth much in my opinion. 

[PRF2009A]

If your coach is as good as you say he is, let him do the coaching.

I question how great he is when you have to defend him like someone's going to die over the topic.

Just an outside observation who has not seen much of the WIAC coaches.


For the record...

I'm still undecided on what I think about Lois as a coach.  I agree that by this point she should have had a team at the top of the conference.  Maybe that time is next year 

Also,  300 wins in 20 years is great and all.  It definitely speaks to a coaches longevity.  15 wins is an average season though.  The years he has been at head coach are more impressive to me than the wins.

[The Champ]

If your coach is as good as you say he is, let him do the coaching.

Trust me, I've never attempted to try and coach basketball.  I'm a fan.

I question how great he is when you have to defend him like someone's going to die over the topic.

And I don't think I've ever posted that he is a great coach.  I've merely posted on what he has done with his program since he took it over.  If what he's done makes him great, than so be it.

And it most surely isn't a life or death issue.  This is a bulletin board and people give their opinions.

Also,  300 wins in 20 years is great and all.  It definitely speaks to a coaches longevity.  15 wins is an average season though.  The years he has been at head coach are more impressive to me than the wins.

The number is 401 in less than 23 complete seasons, FWIW.   300 wins was done in less than 20.

The longevity is due to success.  There are only 2 active HC's in the WIAC with 20 or more years - Shirley and Coach T. 

It's not just a coincidence that these 2 HC's have won all the WIAC tournaments in the last 6 years (3 each).

We have several good coaches in the WIAC.  That's what makes this league a great conference.  Sometimes it works to our disadvantage (national rankings), but I think it makes for better teams when you play a higher level of competition on a regular basis.

[hoop_junkie]

UWL is probably the easiest school of all the WIAC's to recruit to. No offense to any of the other great institutions, but UWL is one of if not the best academic institution in the WIAC. They turn away more applicants every year than any other WIAC school. My point here I guess is, lets hold off on calling someone great who can't seem to get her team out of the middle of this league. UWL recruits itself, case in point when 2 years ago a player who now starts at UWM was playing intramurals there (Ashley Imperiale). There's no reason that UWL shouldn't be finishing in the top 3 every year in the WIAC. I think the sole reason they don't is because they're not all that well coached. They ALWAYS have talent!!! Another classic example of this is 2 years ago they had a kid named Sierra Spaude who now is on scholarship at D1 Univ of Detroit. When Spaude was at UWL she hardly even played, but she leaves the program, goes to a D1 and sees more PT than she did at a D3. Something isn't right here? That cupboard has been stocked since the beginning of time at UWL and frankly, finishing 4th and 5th all the time isn't exactly accomplishing a whole lot when you consider the resources they have.

[billys]

UWL is probably the easiest school of all the WIAC's to recruit to. No offense to any of the other great institutions, but UWL is one of if not the best academic institution in the WIAC. They turn away more applicants every year than any other WIAC school. My point here I guess is, lets hold off on calling someone great who can't seem to get her team out of the middle of this league. UWL recruits itself, case in point when 2 years ago a player who now starts at UWM was playing intramurals there (Ashley Imperiale). There's no reason that UWL shouldn't be finishing in the top 3 every year in the WIAC. I think the sole reason they don't is because they're not all that well coached. They ALWAYS have talent!!! Another classic example of this is 2 years ago they had a kid named Sierra Spaude who now is on scholarship at D1 Univ of Detroit. When Spaude was at UWL she hardly even played, but she leaves the program, goes to a D1 and sees more PT than she did at a D3. Something isn't right here? That cupboard has been stocked since the beginning of time at UWL and frankly, finishing 4th and 5th all the time isn't exactly accomplishing a whole lot when you consider the resources they have.

I disagree with the original statement that she's a great coach. There is no proof in the pudding to be able to say that. JMM liked that she doesn't yell at her kids during the game; that appears to be where this comes from.

But the above statement is completely false. UWL is not even close to the easiest school to recruit to. Not by a long shot. The first thing you brought up may be the biggest reason why; because they turn kids away through the admissions process. It takes a very high ACT and class rank to get into UWL and, despite what people think, athletic teams there don't get tons of leeway to use special admissions. At one point they had to use one of those to get in a kid with a 25 ACT and if a kid has an 18 or 19 (which a lot of kids do) forget about it. Stout, WW, and UWSP with their facilities, fan bases, and lower entry requirements (not to mention success and tradition) are easier to recruit to. UWEC has similar entrance standards but scores in all the other departments. Not to mention UWL is the only one of those without a full-time assistant coach.

Ashley Imperiale is a non-issue. She went there because she thought she had to go somewhere else before she could play at Milwaukee. She had friends there so that's where she went. The intention the entire time was to go back to Milwaukee.

Sierra Spaude is now two years older/stronger/smarter/more developed than she was as a true freshman. I'm not saying she should have/shouldn't have played at UWL, I just don't think comparing a kid's freshman year in the WIAC to their Junior year in the Horizon league is a great gauge. There are a lot of kids who can't function as freshmen who go onto be great players.

If anything I think La Crosse's problems have been recruiting and talent. The cupboard hasn't been stocked since the beginning of time. They've had two or three decent classes but I fear it's closer to turning back into what it was 7-8 years ago. In my opinion, Frank transferring this year was the difference between the season they're having, and the season Oshkosh is having.

As an alumn I actually think the program would be best served with a new coach. But it's not as easy there as you think it is.

[JMM]

Well, let's define great. Bobby Knight - Great coach or not? Billy Martin great coach or not? Casey Stengl great coach or not? I'd say know to all three. John G. from St John's great coach absolutley.

[The Champ]

Well, let's define great.

Well, I would start with a coach that has a stong winning record.

Then I'd add in the respect and admiration of his/her players and peers.

Bobby Knight - Great coach or not?

I don't know. 

Billy Martin great coach or not?

When he was good, he was very good.  When he wasn't, he wasn't.  But the guy that hired and fired him many times - George Steinbrenner - stated that when Martin was in his best form, he was a "baseball genius."

The Yankees retired his number, so I guess I'd say he needs to have the word "great" associated with his name.

Casey Stengl great coach or not?

He's in the Baseball Hall of Fame, so I'd say he qualifies.

I'd say know to all three.

How did I know that you'd say that?

John G. from St John's great coach absolutley.

I heard he got caught yelling at his players once or twice.  He must be a terrible coach... sarcasm alert...

But he has won alot of games, 27 MIAC Championships and 4 National Championships, so inspite of the fact he got caught yelling at his players, I'd say he's a great coach.