WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[billys]

I agree with badgerwarhawk that it's a silly discussion about Coach T and his style. Although I've been somewhat annoyed reading some opinions that make it seem like he invented the game; the discussion about how his style and how he treats kids, based on bleacher observations, is completely unfair.

The guy can coach. And although I don't know if I'd ever send my daughter to play for him because of his style (which I believe could have cost them a Final Four trip or two) ... I would definitely send her there if he's going to make her a tougher kid, challenge her, and get after her when the time is right. Like BW said; it's a tough world. As long as they're not abusive, I want my kids to be coached by someone who's not going to spend all their time telling them how great they are.

In my opinion the reason Shirley and T continue to win is because they recruit/develop TOUGH kids. I am convinced Point continues to be successful because she makes them tough. Their talent level has dropped but their toughness has not. Same with Stout. That I have a TON of respect for that. Anyone can win home games and games they're supposed to win ... TOUGH teams win road games, tournament games, and games like Point did going into WW and games like Stout did last night.

[badgerwarhawk]

So you figure your daughter could have gotten Stout to a couple of DIII Final Fours, billys?       j/k

[billys]

So you figure your daughter could have gotten Stout to a couple of DIII Final Fours, billys?       j/k

Haha ... no, she's not old enough yet!

No, I thought they had a normal rotation good enough to get there but felt like the lack of time for their starters (Duoss especially) might have cost them.

[The Champ]

Badger and billy

Sorry for my part in the discussion you refer to, but I guess I took strong exception to the implication that T's "antics" were counter productive when coaching college ball.

I understand mollycoddling in Middle School, and maybe some at the HS level.

But these are adults playing in DIII, and should be able to take constructive critism (even when somewhat aggressively done).

Peace, love and good wishes to all...

[hoop_junkie]

The best part about having a tough minded coach is the players that do stick around in your program are generally tough minded themselves. I've always respected Coach T but girls do have to have some thick skin to play for him. But when you compromise your style as a coach you definitely won't be successful, you've got to be able to be yourself as a coach and I think Coach T does that pretty well. What you see is what you get and he knows his X's and O's as well!

[BDB]

I understand mollycoddling in Middle School, and maybe some at the HS level.

Mollycoddling?     

Mark's players also get the benefit of his huge heart for their success on the court, in school and in life. I'm sure like the other WIAC coaches.

His intensity during the short time spent in actual games is just something they understand if they have the same heart for their own success.

[The Champ]

Mollycoddling?     

If Molly's back for the alumni game tomorrow, I hope she didn't see that...

That's one young woman that surely doesn't need to be handled with velvet gloves!!!

[JMM]

Since I started the round on Coach T style, I will end it. His record speaks for itself and apparently from input on this board he is loved by his players. Better than I could ever do. Amen.

Really do beleive that Stout can end up with a wonderful finish and season.

[billys]

Mollycoddling?     

If Molly's back for the alumni game tomorrow, I hope she didn't see that...

That's one young woman that surely doesn't need to be handled with velvet gloves!!!

That is the truth! She is actually the girl I think of when I think of the "identity" of their program. That kid was the definition of a "tough" player. The Geisslers as well.

Nechuta and Schultz for UWSP and more recently Van Gomple.

I can't determine yet if the "wussification" of America is a positive or negative for Thomas and Egner. On one hand it's going to get tougher for them to work with kids as time goes on ... on the other hand their opponents will not likely be as tough as they once were and they will still be toughing up their kids to whatever degree they are able.

I just don't see it with the other programs as much. WW a little bit but I've even read some snippets of articles where they at times question their own toughness.

Interesting topic

[The Champ]

That is the truth! She is actually the girl I think of when I think of the "identity" of their program. That kid was the definition of a "tough" player.

billy

By any chance were you down at Simpson College near Des Moines for the DIII tourney games there back in Molly's senior year?

Stout had dominated in the first half against Simpson and led by 14 at the break.

But in the second half we watched tht 14 point lead disappear and we knew we were in a battle!

With just under 10 minutes to go, Simpson trailed by only 1 point, and a few minutes later led by 3.

In the last half of the 2nd period Molly sank three 3 pointers, had an assist, a steal and a pair of FT's.  Those are the things I can document by the stat sheets, but Molly was so much more that night.  She was all over the floor harassing the Simpson players incessantly.  She just wasn't ready to end her college career yet...

Now scoring 11 points in under 10 minutes may not be amazing for some players, but Molly only averaged 8.5 points per game her senior year. 

Molly played 34 minutes that night, scored 19 (five 3 pointers!), had 10 rebounds, 9 assists and 5 steals.

Absolutely the toughest, most determined, single game performance I've ever witnessed by a player.

[JMM]

I can't determine yet if the "wussification" of America is a positive or negative for Thomas and Egner. On one hand it's going to get tougher for them to work with kids as time goes on ... on the other hand their opponents will not likely be as tough as they once were and they will still be toughing up their kids to whatever degree they are able. ...

Since the above was bought up. This was the essence of my point with Coach T. I call it old school. I think the world of college level basketball has moved beyond "old school." If the above is a statement that Coach T may have trouble working with kids because the world has changed   - I agree. The world is a different place (right or wrong). One cannot parent the way parenting was done 20 years ago. You can end up in jail (right or wrong). I would argue what worked for coaching 10-15 years ago is no longer applicable and effective. Kids are different today. Maybe Stout needs a female coach that better relates to todays college woman. I mean nothing negative on Coach T, Kids come through a much different high school experience these days - kinder and more gentle. Can a sometimes mumbling at the bench when mistakes are made and a somewhat gruff approach be confusing to the team and impact performance,  - I don't know but I wonder. That's what raised the question of antics and DD. Maybe someone close to the team has the answer.

[billys]

I can't determine yet if the "wussification" of America is a positive or negative for Thomas and Egner. On one hand it's going to get tougher for them to work with kids as time goes on ... on the other hand their opponents will not likely be as tough as they once were and they will still be toughing up their kids to whatever degree they are able. ...

Since the above was bought up. This was the essence of my point with Coach T. I call it old school. I think the world of college level basketball has moved beyond "old school." If the above is a statement that Coach T may have trouble working with kids because the world has changed   - I agree. The world is a different place (right or wrong). One cannot parent the way parenting was done 20 years ago. You can end up in jail (right or wrong). I would argue what worked for coaching 10-15 years ago is no longer applicable and effective. Kids are different today. Maybe Stout needs a female coach that better relates to todays college woman. I mean nothing negative on Coach T, Kids come through a much different high school experience these days - kinder and more gentle. Can a sometimes mumbling at the bench when mistakes are made and a somewhat gruff approach be confusing to the team and impact performance,  - I don't know but I wonder. That's what raised the question of antics and DD. Maybe someone close to the team has the answer.

Kids are definitely different ... but I don't believe that means they are better off being coached that way. Personally I think that's a cop out. Show kids what they can accomplish with that "toughness" that no one else wants to get through to them.

Division 1 is ruled by Geno Auriemma right now. Most talent? Yes. But he is Mark Thomas x1000 with how he talks to/deals with his players. Pat Summit is the same. Point does not have the "pure talent" some of the other schools in the league do but they're in first. Stout's talent level has dropped considerly (sans Hirssig) but they are still finding a way to win big games against teams that are better than them.

If anything it'll be more about the players they need to recruit ... cause they're still out there. And in some cases the families they need to recruit. Things had already softened up when Molly Hendricks came down the pike; they're still out there though. And Point has a lot of them. I will always be convinced talent with toughness wins way before even more talent does ... cause when the chips are down talent isn't always used to diving on the floor for a loose ball or taking a charge. The tough kid on the team always used to do that for them while they were being told by their coach and parents they didn't need to do that; just worry about scoring.

[The Champ]

WIAC players make ESPN Academic All American Team!

Stout had two:

1st team - Julia Hirssig with a 3.96 GPA
3rd team  - Megan Maslowski with a 3.92

Eau Claire had 1

2nd team - Hannah Messick with a 3.87

Whitewater had 1

3rd team - Heidi Sontagg with a 3.72

Congratulations to all 4 WIAC members for earning this honor!

[Usuallywrong24]

Hirssig is the best in the conference.  I was able to take in her performance on Wednesday night and she simply outworks people.  She just has another level to her grit that few other players are willing to go to.  If I am comparing her to Duoss, I would say Duoss is more talented being 4 inches taller or so, but Hirssig shows more effort and grit.  Throw in Morton and you have the three best post players in the WIAC in the last 4 years with all respect to everyone else. 

Big one today in River.  If River wins out I believe they would own tie-breakers over WW and SP no matter what those other teams do for number 1 in the conference tournament.  Funny how a 20 point win at Zorn can really turn around how you feel about a team haha. 

[hoop_junkie]

Predictions for 2/6:

UWP @ EC
UWL@Superior
UWO@Stout
UWW@RF