WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hoop_junkie]

Cry me a river! That's quite the list of excuses there! I will give you the fact that not having a full-time assistant makes it much more difficult to go out and recruit, but try telling that to the number of private schools that have been outworking a lot of the WIAC's in recruiting over the past couple of years. The hardest working recruiter in the WIAC is Don Mulhern at Superior. He has to teach a full load of classes, has no full-time assistant, a limited budget and is located in SUPERIOR but yet he manages to see tons of games and tons of players. Obviously his circumstances are different then UWL's but he manages to get after the recruiting pretty hard. Again, all I'm saying is Lax should be a lot better then they are and it starts with recruiting.

[bulk19]

I agree with a lot of your points here, but the fact remains that UWL is a program that has underachieved in terms of wins/losses. I think coaches can be great leaders/mentors and win games. Obviously, John Wooden was an example of this and in a class of his own. I just think that UWL is a school that's WBB program should be ranked in the top 25 year in and year out based on its resources.

UWL has always geared its resources toward football and track and field, where they have excelled at the national level... See the new stadium, for example - which also helps the city keep the state high school track meet... 

If UWL has better resources than most schools in the country, how come the men's tennis and baseball teams have been on the verge of getting cut??? 

[cubs]

I agree with a lot of your points here, but the fact remains that UWL is a program that has underachieved in terms of wins/losses. I think coaches can be great leaders/mentors and win games. Obviously, John Wooden was an example of this and in a class of his own. I just think that UWL is a school that's WBB program should be ranked in the top 25 year in and year out based on its resources.

If that's the case, outside their Wrestling, Track and Field, and Cross Country teams, just about all of their athletic teams are under performing then.  When is the last time the football, Men's basketball, Volleyball or baseball teams won a WIAC Championship?

[phoenix_rising]

I agree LaCrosse should be doing better than they are. For all that, I can't figure out why some teams are doing as well as they are. There were several seasons when I couldn't believe they weren't at the top of the WIAC; they seem to implode at the wrong time--as if there's ever a good time to implode.

LaCrosse is not in a great geographical part of the state; how many schools does it compete with for recruits? Winona, Twin Cities schools, Platteville, EC, Stout, River Falls, even Madison. Dubuque. Its natural recruiting area is a bunch of small-town schools in all directions. That said, EC, Stout, River Falls have similar issues, but they hit the Twin Cities megalopolis area hard.

LaCrosse is probably better known for its track and gymnastics(?) than basketball. A good program attracts good recruits. It's one of those circular things: if you don't have a name, it's pretty hard to make a name. Basketball players know about reputations of Point, Stout, Whitewater, so they think getting recuited by one or more of those schools means they'll play. How unpleasant a surprise is it when they have to sit for two or three years? I know one good player left EC for LaCrosse and got playing time and contributed to wins. The bigger question: why didn't she get playing time at EC?

I don't know about the recruiting budget, but I can't believe any is as bad as Superior's. Superior doesn't really believe in women's sports; they have to support them, so they can have men's sports. It's a political thing.


The last, and maybe the hardest part of coaching, is putting together a team from the players who show up. What if everybody is under 5'8"? What if you have three who are 6'2" and were stars at Gilmanton or Plum City or Podunk Junction or wherever but are slow and can't catch on to the pace of the college game? What if your star senior or junior tears an ACL early in the season? What if your promising freshman is academically ineligible the second half of the season, because she paid more attention to basketball than academics--shouldn't happen, right? Ha. What if many of those things happened in the same year?

[sumfun]

There's a lot of luck in every season when it comes to injuries and other aspects.  Who can step up and take their place of a key player can make or break a season.  Certainly you make your own luck, but a deep bench is the best insurance policy.

[jam8788]

I brought the LAX topic up almost exactly one year ago and no one seemed interested in talking about it:
"During Heeren's 10 years, the highest they've finished is 4th (2005-2006) and the other years they placed 6th or worst (not including this year's 5th place).  They are losing a bunch of starters to graduation at the end of the year, almost ensuring another mediocre season next year.  At some point doesn't the administration have to wonder why the program struggles so much?"
I guess it took one more average season for people to start talking about it finally.

I agree with the posters that think LAX is an underachieving women's basketball school. 

[phoenix_rising]

What makes you think the administration cares? What's riding on a women's basketball winning season?

[PRF2009A]

I brought the LAX topic up almost exactly one year ago and no one seemed interested in talking about it:
"During Heeren's 10 years, the highest they've finished is 4th (2005-2006) and the other years they placed 6th or worst (not including this year's 5th place).  They are losing a bunch of starters to graduation at the end of the year, almost ensuring another mediocre season next year.  At some point doesn't the administration have to wonder why the program struggles so much?"
I guess it took one more average season for people to start talking about it finally.

I agree with the posters that think LAX is an underachieving women's basketball school. 

Not sure where you got that information.  This team is losing 0 starters going into next year.  They have one senior on the team.  Hanna (not melissa) Lang.  She plays maybe 10 minutes a game.  Expect big things from this team next year. 

[hoop_junkie]

Now that we've broken down how we feel about UWL, lets examine a team that's in a far worse state and probably deserves more criticism than any other program in the league and that is Oshkosh. What's their excuse? They're in the most talent heavy area in the state and yet there they sit at the bottom of the WIAC. I will give them credit that they did bring in 3 nice freshman this year, but last place in the WIAC for a team that used to rule the land not all that long ago. It's kind of sad what has happened to that program. Curious if anyone thinks that Schumacher is on the hot seat?

[Just Bill]

The only explanation I've had for UW-Oshkosh is that Teri Schumacher just didn't "get" recruiting when she arrived.  I don't think she had an appreciation for how hard you have to work recruiting even entering a good situation like UWO had.  A good friend of mine lives in Oshkosh and goes to many HS games. He was stunned at how many Oshkosh West games Schumacher attended in her first couple of years at UWO.  He'd say, "she can't possibly be seeing very many kids if she's watching 12-14 Oshkosh West games."  He's told me she's not around as much anymore, which is likely a good thing.

I think she thought the talent would show up and all she had to do was coach them. Time will tell if she's got a handle on it now.

[stoutguy]

The only explanation I've had for UW-Oshkosh is that Teri Schumacher just didn't "get" recruiting when she arrived.  I don't think she had an appreciation for how hard you have to work recruiting even entering a good situation like UWO had.  A good friend of mine lives in Oshkosh and goes to many HS games. He was stunned at how many Oshkosh West games Schumacher attended in her first couple of years at UWO.  He'd say, "she can't possibly be seeing very many kids if she's watching 12-14 Oshkosh West games."  He's told me she's not around as much anymore, which is likely a good thing.

I think she thought the talent would show up and all she had to do was coach them. Time will tell if she's got a handle on it now.

You make a good point about her being at all those Osh games.  I always feel badly for WIAC coaches who have to miss there own kid's games because they have to recruit but there is no substitute for the head coach being at many, many games during the hs season.  Also, it seems that for whatever reason, Schumacher lost  kids who were out during the season.  I remember one game that she dressed only 8 kids.  That was a red flag for me.

[The Champ]

LaCrosse is not in a great geographical part of the state; how many schools does it compete with for recruits? Winona, Twin Cities schools, Platteville, EC, Stout, River Falls, even Madison. Dubuque. Its natural recruiting area is a bunch of small-town schools in all directions. That said, EC, Stout, River Falls have similar issues, but they hit the Twin Cities megalopolis area hard.

There are several good to very good current WIAC players that were physically as close or closer to UWL than they were to the WIAC schools they are playing for.

1.  Julia Hirssig - Rochester, MN - Stout
2.  Hannah Messick - Chatfield, MN - UWEC
3.  Daniel Frank - Caledonia, MN - UWL
4.  Samantha Piske - Bangor, WI - UWP
5.  Maranda Dohrn - Lake City, MN - UWRF
6.  Alise Holst - Plainview, MN - UWRF
7.  Josi Schultz - Eau Claire, WI - UWSP
8.  Anna Peterson - Osseo, WI - UWS
9.  Katie Zavodny - Boyceville, WI - UWS
10.  Hailey Hart - Osseo, WI - UWS

Those 10 players would make an excellent team!

I just can't see that UWL has it any tougher than other WIAC schools to compete for recruits.  You mention that EC, RF and Stout go into the Twin Cities to recruit - but how many colleges are there in the Twin Cities?

Many of the MN kids listed here are in the SE MN area that I live.  I know I get frustrated that all those young women aren't at Stout.  UWL has one of them - Danielle Frank and UWL is the closest WIAC school to her hometown of Caledonia, MN.

[cubs]

He was stunned at how many Oshkosh West games Schumacher attended in her first couple of years at UWO.  He'd say, "she can't possibly be seeing very many kids if she's watching 12-14 Oshkosh West games."  He's told me she's not around as much anymore, which is likely a good thing.

I think she thought the talent would show up and all she had to do was coach them. Time will tell if she's got a handle on it now.

Just playing deveils advocate here.....

She did get two Oshkosh West girls in Boeder and Wenig, so maybe that is why she was at so many games?

[jam8788]

I brought the LAX topic up almost exactly one year ago and no one seemed interested in talking about it:
"During Heeren's 10 years, the highest they've finished is 4th (2005-2006) and the other years they placed 6th or worst (not including this year's 5th place).  They are losing a bunch of starters to graduation at the end of the year, almost ensuring another mediocre season next year.  At some point doesn't the administration have to wonder why the program struggles so much?"
I guess it took one more average season for people to start talking about it finally.

I agree with the posters that think LAX is an underachieving women's basketball school. 

Not sure where you got that information.  This team is losing 0 starters going into next year.  They have one senior on the team.  Hanna (not melissa) Lang.  She plays maybe 10 minutes a game.  Expect big things from this team next year. 

If you read the whole post, I said that I brought this topic up exactly one year ago, which was the end of last season when they were losing impactful seniors.

[Just Bill]

Sure, but given her Oshkosh West connection, don't you think she could have landed those kids by seeing 2 or 3 games and making a few phone calls and a home visit. As a recruiter you have to constantly weigh your opportunity cost.

There's a fine line being casting a wide net and targeting key kids for special attention.  That's where I think Schumacher was on the wrong page. While Boeder and Wenig are decent, are they really big impact players that would justify that kind of recruiting attention?  Probably not.