WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[The Champ]

Call me crazy, but I would rather have Flease than Hendrickson.  Just comparing the stat lines from head to head this year.  

Dec 10, 76-71 WW Win
Hendrickson 21 pts, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 7 steals
Flease 12 pts, 0 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals

Jan 27, 68-51 SP Win
Flease 24 pts, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals
Hendrickson 7 pts, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals

February 27, 68-64 SP Win
Flease 6 points, 2 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals
Hendrickson 0 pts, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals

Let's look at the conference stats for thes same categories:

Points

6. Hendrickson 14.3
11. Flease 11.1

Rebounds

20. Bundy 4.4

Neither Flease nor Hendrickson had enough rebounds to make the list

Assists

1. Flease 4.37
2. Hendrickson 3.79

Steals

1. Hendrickson 3.72
2. Flease 2.60

So Hendrickson wins 2 out 3 categories.

[The Champ]

You pick La Crosse to win the league simply because they have no seniors ... which means moving up two spots and winning games that truly matter ... which La Crosse hasn't really done, EVER.

Yet Point, who was 4 minutes from going to the Final Four, WON the conference tournament, and lost the regular season title on the final day is going to drop two spots even though they lose just one senior who averaged 3 points and 3 rebounds a game?

You lost me

You're not the only one that got lost in the logic...

When a team returns 100% of their squad, with the lone exception of 1 player that only averaged 15.6 minutes per game (and as you noted 3 points and 3 boards), I think they have a fair shot of doing a similar job to the year before.

[closetothechest]

I didn't state records, it is going to be pretty clustered.  I am not predicting a 9-7 season from them.  I am just saying that they are looking at 13-3 at best if they can't win at EC and LX and get beat by Stout at home. 

I remember WW going to the Final Four, with the only losses of Buechner and Thill and ranked #1 in the pre-season national rankings, and they didn't do the same thing the next year.  The went from a tie for first in 2008 to second in 2009 and bounced in the semi-finals of the conference tournament by almost 30 at home. 

Nothing is guaranteed. 

[billys]

I didn't state records, it is going to be pretty clustered.  I am not predicting a 9-7 season from them.  I am just saying that they are looking at 13-3 at best if they can't win at EC and LX and get beat by Stout at home. 

I remember WW going to the Final Four, with the only losses of Buechner and Thill and ranked #1 in the pre-season national rankings, and they didn't do the same thing the next year.  The went from a tie for first in 2008 to second in 2009 and bounced in the semi-finals of the conference tournament by almost 30 at home. 

Nothing is guaranteed. 

And 13-3 would have won the league this year ... I guess I am still trying to figure out how you see them as the 4th best team.

And I think you proved our point with the next statement. They went from 1st to 2nd ... not down to 4th. AND they ONLY lost Buechner and Thill; two EXTREMELY important catalysts for their team. No apples to apples. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that team go to the 2nd round of the NCAA's.

Your posts are just completely hypocritical. You take three of their losses and talk about them like they have never won at those places and need to "figure out" how to do it. La Crosse has beaten them like twice in 20 years.

As soon as La Crosse figures out how to win at Point and against Eau Claire period, based on the logic I guess I'm not sure how they can be picked to win it either. They're 13-3 at best

[closetothechest]

LX didn't lose anyone. 

EC has the best combination of post players in the conference and their guards are a year older. 

WW has the best coach in the conference as she won Coach of the Year this year. 

It is more of a testament to the rest of the league then a knock on SP. 

WW was still the pre-season #1 without those two in 2008. 

Those three losses that I talked about weren't even close.  All by double digits.  Just looking at facts. 

[Just Bill]

WW has the best coach in the conference as she won Coach of the Year this year. 

The latter does not automatically equal the former.  Carollo is fine, but she's nowhere close to Thomas and Egner.  Those two coaches have seen it all and done it all.  Which would be expected given their many years of experience.  Carollo may be that good some day, but not yet.

You're looking at convenient facts that fit your argument, but not the overall picture.  UWSP has won something like 20 of the last 22 games at La Crosse. They're very comfortable winning there even if the most recent game was a dud.  They've won a WIAC Tournament title game and others games at Zorn Arena.

[Usuallywrong24]

I don't agree with LX being the best team coming into next year, I would rather go with SP.  But to think LX may be the favorite shouldn't be something to get upset about.  I remember in the fall when LX was picked something like 5th or 6th in the league and some people thought THAT was too high.  Well they finished in a tie for third, so first next year isn't a real stretch.  This is a new bunch of LX kids. 

That said, SP is the favorite coming into the year.  I wouldn't be surprised to see them garner 8 of the 9 votes in the SID poll this fall. 

Also, BW, how do you know Hendrickson was picked ahead of Flease in the conference player of the year voting?  Where can I see that voting?  I know they re-vote on the top 3 vote getters, but I didn't think those top 3 vote getters were ever made public?  I went on the conference website and didn't see anything that said who the top 3 were.  Obviously Hirrsig was one of them since they she won it, but no idea who the other two were. 

[billys]

LX didn't lose anyone. 

EC has the best combination of post players in the conference and their guards are a year older. 

WW has the best coach in the conference as she won Coach of the Year this year. 

It is more of a testament to the rest of the league then a knock on SP. 

WW was still the pre-season #1 without those two in 2008. 

Those three losses that I talked about weren't even close.  All by double digits.  Just looking at facts. 

Look, I would never make predictions before the fall cause we have no idea on transfers or recruits. I'm just trying to understand your logic.

LX didn't lose anyone- as compared to 3 pts and 3 reb for SP

EC has the best combination of post players in the conference and their guards are a year older.  Fair enough; but Points kids will all be older as well; not to mention Eau Claire was 8-8 and 10-17 overall

WW has the best coach in the conference as she won Coach of the Year this year.   WW may have the best coach in the conference (based on this logic) but Point has the best coach in the Region!

It is more of a testament to the rest of the league then a knock on SP.  

WW was still the pre-season #1 without those two in 2008. National Rankings mean nothing; especially in the pre-season. Syracuse and Texas proved that this year. In D3 no one gets to see more than a handful of teams ... that will never be a good barometer. The losses of seniors aren't even comparable.

Again, you might turn out correct. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how someone comes to that prediction days after the season ends with what we CURRENTLY know about these teams. By your reasoning I feel like you're actually making the case for Point to be picked 1st.

[Just Bill]

I'm not upset with people's opinions. I guess closetothechest is just going on gut feeling (which is fine) because at this point, the facts and logic don't add up to that conclusion.

[billys]

I don't agree with LX being the best team coming into next year, I would rather go with SP.  But to think LX may be the favorite shouldn't be something to get upset about.  I remember in the fall when LX was picked something like 5th or 6th in the league and some people thought THAT was too high.  Well they finished in a tie for third, so first next year isn't a real stretch.  This is a new bunch of LX kids. 

I'm not upset either. I love these discussions; just like to get another perspective of where people are coming from. And La Crosse being picked first is fine; I'm just trying to figure out how Point falls to 4th

[The Champ]

I remember in the fall when LX was picked something like 5th or 6th in the league and some people thought THAT was too high.  Well they finished in a tie for third, so first next year isn't a real stretch. 

Well, there were three teams that TIED for third place, so one could also say that there were three teams tied for fifth place.

10 - 6 in many years in the WIAC would get you 4th or 5th place.

Just to put some of this in to real terms, the last time that a 10 - 6 record took 3rd place for a single team was the 1997 - 98 season when Stout did it.

In 2000 - 01, three teams tied for 3rd with an 11 - 5 record.

The last time a 10 - 6 team went from 10 - 6 to winning the WIAC was in 2002 - 03 when UWEC did it.

The last time UWL finished the season with a conference record better than 10 - 6 was in 1987 - 88.

[Usuallywrong24]

I am pretty sure I said they were in a tie for third place.  Not sure why you are putting it in caps.  I would have put the three in caps, but it doesn't matter. 

And I don't know who would say there was a 3-way tie for fifth place.  I mean by that idea, no one won conference in 2008, there was a two-way tie for second.

[PRF2009A]

I remember in the fall when LX was picked something like 5th or 6th in the league and some people thought THAT was too high.  Well they finished in a tie for third, so first next year isn't a real stretch. 

Well, there were three teams that TIED for third place, so one could also say that there were three teams tied for fifth place.

10 - 6 in many years in the WIAC would get you 4th or 5th place.

Just to put some of this in to real terms, the last time that a 10 - 6 record took 3rd place for a single team was the 1997 - 98 season when Stout did it.

In 2000 - 01, three teams tied for 3rd with an 11 - 5 record.

The last time a 10 - 6 team went from 10 - 6 to winning the WIAC was in 2002 - 03 when UWEC did it.

The last time UWL finished the season with a conference record better than 10 - 6 was in 1987 - 88.

In 2000-2001 stout tied for 3rd with 3 teams at 11-5.  (So you could say they tied for 5th?)
The following year they went 15-1 and won the conference. 

Lax has a lot of improvement to make this offseason if they are going to compete for a title next year.  I suppose you could say that for every team.

Is it possible they win the conference next year?  Definitely.  They will have the best shot they have had in years.

  Are they the favorites?  No way.

1. Point
2. EC
3. Lax
4. WW
5. Stout
6. RF

I think 2-5 are a toss up especially if Stout and Whitewater get some good players this offseason.  Everyone's chasing Point now.

[The Champ]

I am pretty sure I said they were in a tie for third place.  Not sure why you are putting it in caps.  I would have put the three in caps, but it doesn't matter. 

And I don't know who would say there was a 3-way tie for fifth place.  I mean by that idea, no one won conference in 2008, there was a two-way tie for second.

The point I was making is that you said that some people projected them as a 5th place team.  They finished with a 10 - 6 record that 3 teams tied for 3rd place with - which means that those three teams with identical records represented 3rd, 4th, and 5th place.

And you verify my point because, as you so eloquently pointed out, 2 teams tied for first, but no one is trying to say that LaCrosse, River Falls and Stout tied for 2nd place. 

[The Champ]

In 2000-2001 stout tied for 3rd with 3 teams at 11-5.  (So you could say they tied for 5th?)
The following year they went 15-1 and won the conference. 

Before I make my response, please read it and understand it.  Don't get upset and attack me, attack my post if you think I'm wrong.

It's not that uncommon for a 3rd place team to go from 3rd to 1st in the WIAC.  Point did it just last year when they went from 3rd to 1st with a 12 - 4 record.

I'm glad you noticed that I posted that it was a 3 way tie for 3rd place with an 11 - 5 record when Stout went from 3rd to 1st.

For Point, Stout, EC and WW at this time, a 10 - 6 record is not considered to be a "good" season.

For LaCrosse, a 10 win WIAC season is a great year - anything better than that hasn't happened in LaCrosse since Ronald Reagan was President.

I have no problem stating that UWL had a good season, and that they may improve next year.  I just don't see UWL (with their history) going from 10 - 6 to winning the WIAC.

Until they can prove (in recent history) that they are capable of winning more than 10 games in a season, I'm a doubting  Thomas.

OK?