WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

I think Point got robbed here a bit.  St Norbs is good.  I would have expected Point to play Concordia in the first round.

Home court isn't enough?   

[billys]

Point hosts vs. St Norbs
Other teams in pod are Simpson & Concordia, MN

I think Point got robbed here a bit.  St Norbs is good.  I would have expected Point to play Concordia in the first round.

The Massey ratings have  Simpson (11), Concordia (16), and St. Norbert's (30). So they would argue Point did get the weakest of the three.

For the record Massey rates Point (1) WW (5) and La Crosse (9)

Other pods

La Crosse (9) vs. Wisconsin Lutheran (42)
Illinois Wesleyan (3) vs. Webster (185)

Whitewater (5) vs. Mount Union (19)
Thomas More (7) vs. Piedmont (154)

[buf]

I think Point got robbed here a bit.  St Norbs is good.  I would have expected Point to play Concordia in the first round.

Home court isn't enough?   

Well, the home court was very expected.  Maybe I am putting too much weight on record compared to conference strength.  And I realize the word "robbed" was too strong of a word to use than I actually meant.  It was just the 1st word that came to my mind.

[buf]

Point hosts vs. St Norbs
Other teams in pod are Simpson & Concordia, MN

I think Point got robbed here a bit.  St Norbs is good.  I would have expected Point to play Concordia in the first round.

The Massey ratings have  Simpson (11), Concordia (16), and St. Norbert's (30). So they would argue Point did get the weakest of the three.

For the record Massey rates Point (1) WW (5) and La Crosse (9)

Other pods

La Crosse (9) vs. Wisconsin Lutheran (42)
Illinois Wesleyan (3) vs. Webster (185)

Whitewater (5) vs. Mount Union (19)
Thomas More (7) vs. Piedmont (154)

D3hoops has got Point at #4, St. Norberts at #16 with both Simpson and Concordia outside the top 37.

[The Champ]

Where's Champ when you need him to put some people back in their seats.   [/quote

OK, PRF, go lay down by your dish...

For the first time in years, my squad didn't even make the WIAC Tournament...

Glad to see 3 WIAC teams in the dance.  Hope everyone dances all the way through this weekend!

[billys]

Point hosts vs. St Norbs
Other teams in pod are Simpson & Concordia, MN

I think Point got robbed here a bit.  St Norbs is good.  I would have expected Point to play Concordia in the first round.

The Massey ratings have  Simpson (11), Concordia (16), and St. Norbert's (30). So they would argue Point did get the weakest of the three.

For the record Massey rates Point (1) WW (5) and La Crosse (9)

Other pods

La Crosse (9) vs. Wisconsin Lutheran (42)
Illinois Wesleyan (3) vs. Webster (185)

Whitewater (5) vs. Mount Union (19)
Thomas More (7) vs. Piedmont (154)

D3hoops has got Point at #4, St. Norberts at #16 with both Simpson and Concordia outside the top 37.

I know but the D3hoops Top #25 is voted on by humans and let's be honest, only at the D1 level do voters see teams from outside their region or even conference. No one can tell me St. Norberts is legitimately one of the top 16 teams in the country ... they didn't beat ANYONE. According to the power rankings Oshkosh was the third best team they played.

I'm not saying computers know what they're talking about either but when you factor in strength of schedule I think this is actually a fairly good ranking system.

PS WIAC and CCIW ranked 1 and 2 in their system.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&yr=2011&sub=NCAA%20III&mid=1

PPS- These rankings also show how good women's basketball is at the college level in Wisconsin

D1 (Ranking among 343 schools)
Green Bay (13)
Marquette (15)
Wisconsin (51)

D2 (Ranking among 285 schools)
Parkside (16)

D3 (Ranking among 437 schools)
UWSP (1)
UWW (5)
UWL (9)
UWEC (27)
St. Norbert (30)
UWRF (32)
Carthage (36)
WI Lutheran (42)

NAIA 2 (Ranking among 140)
Cardinal Stritch (27)


Thanks pretty stinkin' good. You'd think the guy lived in Wisconsin who developed the program.

[Just Bill]

billys, I don't think you're giving the Top 25 voters enough credit. If this was 1997, I might agree with you. You've heard of videocasting on the internet, right? I think the voters in Pat's poll have seen far more teams than you realize. Plus Pat gives them enough data every week to choke a small horse (if he was printing all that data on paper, that is.) I think the voters are far more familiar coast-to-coast than you think they are.

[billys]

billys, I don't think you're giving the Top 25 voters enough credit. If this was 1997, I might agree with you. You've heard of videocasting on the internet, right? I think the voters in Pat's poll have seen far more teams than you realize. Plus Pat gives them enough data every week to choke a small horse (if he was printing all that data on paper, that is.) I think the voters are far more familiar coast-to-coast than you think they are.

You honestly think that voters (coaches, SID's and media) are watching multiple games a weekend so they can fill out a ballot? I believe voters are more aware of other teams and "familiar" ... I don't believe they've seen more than 10 of them play. Some, probably have ... I'd guess the majority have not. And there's not anything wrong with that. All those people have to cover their own teams who are likely playing the same nights.

This site does a great job of giving people the ability to follow teams and learn about them. And I definitely believe it's more accurate than the coaches poll that has 8 voters. But it's also the reason teams with past success can hang around the Top 25 after a bunch of losses when teams that haven't been there need to win a lot more games to earn that respect.

I really don't think questionning the accuracy of a human vote poll is all that new. People say the same thing about Division 1 all the time which has a lot more coverage. I all but guarantee if the Point SID were a voter he's not going home after working a DH and watching two games on "videocasting" to see who he should vote for.

[Just Bill]

I know a handful of voters, and yes, that's exactly what they do.

[billys]

I like you and am not trying to start an argument ... I just don't buy it. Some people may try but, for instance the coaches who vote. They're preparing for two games a week, traveling to recruit, practicing, watching film, teaching, playing road games, etc. Then they're watching 5-10 out of region teams just to vote for Top 25? That would be stupid and I wouldn't expect any of them to even try to do that.

Like I said, I'm not saying any of it is a bad thing or that they're expected to know everyone they're voting for. It's the element of the polls. D1 pollsters admit to this all the time but D3 pollsters see all? If you're trying to say they regularly see all the teams up for discussion, I just don't see how it's humanly possible. Not only would they have to see the 25 teams they want to vote for they'd have to see 15-20 more on the fence to honestly know who belongs. Heck in D3 you should really see more than that cause by my quick count there were like 73 teams with 20 wins in D3! Babson is 27-0 but has a schedule rank in the mid-200's. Humans would (and probably should) always rank that team high because they're unbeaten. A computer poll deducts for the bad schedule. It's a matter of taste and opinion but I do believe it creates an unbiased comparison of teams. Of course there's bias in the development of the formula.

You're making it out like I bashed these voters. I may have embellished by saying they don't see anyone outside their own conference. The point was I think with 420+ teams and 25 voters likely spread throughout the country they don't have the time or resources to make sure they see all 40 teams up for discussion on a weekly basis. This ranking system tells me Eau Claire is potentially a top 30 team in the country. Maybe not likely but based on their record they couldn't sniff a human poll.  But if you look at their record and then consider they had the country's 3rd best schedule; I say .. well maybe against a St. Norbert schedule they win 20+ games. And this ranking system also tells me they're better than St. Norberts, which they proved on the floor.  I like a computer program that can factor in strength of schedule and some other numbers to give an unbiased account of the season and technically "sees" everyone and puts them on an even playing field. Again, not even close to the "bible" but if two teams are playing on an empty court in Alaska I like the power rankings to give me an idea of who the better team might be. I'm not buying St. Norbert's is favored against La Crosse which is what the human poll tells me.

I apologize if I offended you or any of your friends who vote. It's got a great place for discussion. I just prefer another metric. I've said my piece and we'e probably just going to disagree on this.

[billys]

Anyway ... let's talk hoops.

Predictions:
Point no trouble in rolling to the Round of 16
Whitewater wins their first game and then has a battle ... still think they can win.
La Crosse does the same and unfortunately gets bounced in round 2.

Mount Union appears to be a deliberate bunch, I would imagine WW's pressure and attacking will bother them. They only average 14 TO's which is tough to do unless you play a slower tempo. Obviously just going off of stats though ... has anyone seen them? They also don't have a ton of size (5-10 for their bigs that most contribute). Guard dominated scoring-wise. Looking forward to that one.

[LA RAMS]

I wouldn't be so fast to pencil in UW-Steven Point into the round of 16 as Concordia from the MIAC is going to be in town.  This is a team that has caught fire lately and with seniors such as Erica Nord, Lindsey Schultz, Brittany Jossart, Maggie Bauernfeind, and freshman 6'4" post Alexandra Lippert the Cobbers are going to be very, very tough to beat.

[WithasilentK]

I wouldn't be so fast to pencil in UW-Steven Point into the round of 16 as Concordia from the MIAC is going to be in town.  This is a team that has caught fire lately and with seniors such as Erica Nord, Lindsey Schultz, Brittany Jossart, Maggie Bauernfeind, and freshman 6'4" post Alexandra Lippert the Cobbers are going to be very, very tough to beat.

From talking to someone that watched the MIAC and WIAC this year, they thought the WIAC would roll through the MIAC. Maybe Concordia has caught fire lately, but I don't think they have a chance unless they're playing amazing right now.

[Lovinthe3ball]

I think we are all forgetting that the Pointers had a little trouble with the Cobbers last year. I am with Rams...don't pencil those Pointers in yet. They also have to get through a very determined St Norberts College as well. I know it isn't the Hope pod but I don't think anyone has it easy up in Stevens Point right now.

Any thoughts on how the UWL pod will pan out. I think if they can handle the pressure they could beat the home team!

[billys]

Sorry, I don't mean my predictions to demean any of the other teams. I just know if I'm filling out a bracket pool I'm pushing Point through to the Sweet 16 without a lot of hesitation.

They're at home, they're playing well, they're battle tested ... I just don't see them losing at home. I haven't seen Concordia so I'm basing it only off what I know of Point.