WBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

buf · October 27, 2008, 10:44:22 PM

jam8788 · October 28, 2008, 09:11:54 AM

Carollo was named Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association Coach of the Year? For what, having a transfer dropped into her lap the year before? From 2002 through 2006 Carollo's teams go 11-14, 9-17, 14-12, and 12-14. Then Morton drops in and the team goes 19-7 and then 29-4 this past year. Are you sure that's good coaching?

Similarly, Oshkosh's Schuemacher came to the program for the 05-06 campaign and finished first in conference with 5 starting upperclassmen. Since then they've finished 8th and 6th in conference and have no seniors for the 08-09 campaign (there were 6 freshmen in 05-06, where'd they all go?).

Are both Carollo and Schuemacher examples of coaches that ride the backs of their great player(s)? Can they really develop strong programs or were (are) they lucky to have great players in the program?

badgerwarhawk · October 28, 2008, 11:03:33 AM

I haven't seen any preseason rankings for DIII women. I google searched it today and couldn't find anything. This website's rankings will be released 10/30.

It helps when talent comes knocking on your door but Carollo can coach. It's taken her a while but if you had any idea of the deplorable condition of the program she inherited you'd probably have a greater appreciation of what she's accomplished. Plus both Morton and Hendrickson (two transfers) were recruited by Carollo but decided to try other places first. Obviously getting talented players is a coach's #1 priority but talent doesn't win by itself. A coach has to develop a system that the talent fits and get the players to buy into it. Carollo has deserved WIAC coach of the year honors for two years running now. The national honor was well deserved and WHITEWATER will be a program to contend with in the future when both of them are gone.

Usuallywrong24 · October 30, 2008, 01:39:17 PM

BW, I agree that talent alone doesn't win and I would hope Carollo would recruit two athletes such as Morton and Hendrickson when their high schools were so close to WW. There is a school in the WIAC who, imho, has as much talent as anyone but can never finish above 5th in the conference. And I could be wrong, but I do not think Carollo won the national coach of the year honor, just the Wisconsin Coach of the Year honor.

badgerwarhawk · October 31, 2008, 09:38:43 AM

You're correct about the Coach of the Year honor, my bad.

WARHAWK women rated preseason #1....http://d3hoops.com/top25/

While it's a testament to the job Carollo has done since the Julie Yaeger dark ages and it's well deserved it makes me uncomfortable and I'd prefer being ranked lower to begin with. The preseason ranking is so speculative and puts a target on your back.

Barber Greene · October 31, 2008, 12:16:46 PM

Quote from: badgerwarhawk on October 31, 2008, 09:38:43 AM
You're correct about the Coach of the Year honor, my bad.

WARHAWK women rated preseason #1....http://d3hoops.com/top25/

While it's a testament to the job Carollo has done since the Julie Yaeger dark ages and it's well deserved it makes me uncomfortable and I'd prefer being ranked lower to begin with. The preseason ranking is so speculative and puts a target on your back.

Get tough or die Warhawks! Seriously, there are some benefits to having the target on your back. Having the opposing team bringing their best every night will make them battle tested.

Just Bill · October 31, 2008, 01:05:16 PM

I think it's a little different in basketball too. No one really expects the preseason #1 to go wire-to-wire like they often do in football. Especially in a league like the WIAC it's not really fair to think any can emerged completely unscathed (although it does happen occasionally).

Usuallywrong24 · November 02, 2008, 09:57:55 PM

Absolutely. I think the chances are pretty slim that WW will go through the whole season without a loss. If they didn't have to play teams like EC, SP, and Stout twice a year they would have a great chance. There is a reason why the WIAC is one of the top couple conferences in the nation.

The Champ · November 04, 2008, 05:58:40 PM

Quote from: jam8788 on October 28, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
Carollo was named Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association Coach of the Year? For what, having a transfer dropped into her lap the year before? From 2002 through 2006 Carollo's teams go 11-14, 9-17, 14-12, and 12-14. Then Morton drops in and the team goes 19-7 and then 29-4 this past year. Are you sure that's good coaching?

That's good coaching and recruiting.

Do the math, 2007 was the first year that it was truly "her" team - all players were recruited by her - not the remnants of what was there before (remember that she wasn't recruiting anyone during the 2001 - 2002 season as she was the Asistant Coach at Stout during their 15 - 1 WIAC Championship season).

Carollo's worked very hard and has earned her recognition!

bulk19 · November 04, 2008, 07:13:58 PM

jam8788 -

It's already been determined here by some posters that you basically give mulligans to a coach's WIAC record for his/her first four seasons, because it isn't truly "his/her" team until he/she only has players that he/she has recruited during his/her stint...

Usuallywrong24 · November 04, 2008, 10:40:20 PM

Quote from: The Champ on November 04, 2008, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: jam8788 on October 28, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
Carollo was named Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association Coach of the Year? For what, having a transfer dropped into her lap the year before? From 2002 through 2006 Carollo's teams go 11-14, 9-17, 14-12, and 12-14. Then Morton drops in and the team goes 19-7 and then 29-4 this past year. Are you sure that's good coaching?

That's good coaching and recruiting.

Do the math, 2007 was the first year that it was truly "her" team - all players were recruited by her - not the remnants of what was there before (remember that she wasn't recruiting anyone during the 2001 - 2002 season as she was the Asistant Coach at Stout during their 15 - 1 WIAC Championship season).

Carollo's worked very hard and has earned her recognition!

I understand they weren't "her" teams, but how come she went down in wins her second and fourth years. Shouldn't there be steady improvement each year when she recruits more players? Maybe a win in the WIAC tourny at least by her fourth year? Maybe at least a home WIAC tourny game? She never finished higher than 6th in conference her first four years.

The Champ · November 05, 2008, 06:22:27 AM

Quote from: bulk19 on November 04, 2008, 07:13:58 PM
It's already been determined here by some posters that you basically give mulligans to a coach's WIAC record for his/her first four seasons, because it isn't truly "his/her" team until he/she only has players that he/she has recruited during his/her stint...

And some people give a coach all the credit for what happens once they get the position, regardless of the fact that their predecessor had run an extremely successful program.

Time to take off your blue and gold glasses for a change and stop spewing sour grapes about Tonja England not getting COY....

Carollo has made her program better than her predecessor, Englund has made her program worse.

The Champ · November 05, 2008, 06:45:59 AM

Quote from: Usuallywrong24 on November 04, 2008, 10:40:20 PMI understand they weren't "her" teams, but how come she went down in wins her second and fourth years. Shouldn't there be steady improvement each year when she recruits more players? Maybe a win in the WIAC tourny at least by her fourth year? Maybe at least a home WIAC tourny game? She never finished higher than 6th in conference her first four years.

If we operated in a vacuum, I might be better able to answer your questions...

Carollo's WIAC Conference record (5 - 11) was the same in year 1 and year 2 as her predecessor's last season (and better than her predecessor's previous season WIAC record of 3 - 13), and went up to 7 - 9 in year 3 and down to 6 - 10 in year 4. So her 3rd and 4th year were both better than year's 1 and 2.

Why am I only including WIAC games?

1. Because I don't even want to try and figure out the strength of schedule for non conference games from past seasons.

2. Call me lazy...

But I think we can all agree that the WIAC, year in and year out, is one of the most competitive conferences in DIII.

FWIW - BW watches more UWW WBB than any of us here. He says Carollo took over a program that was in "deploreable condition" and has turned it into one that is now the #1 ranked team (preseason) in the nation.

That's a pretty good job, IMHO.

buckets · November 05, 2008, 09:02:32 AM

Okay, I have been silent for a while. Let me chime in.

First of all, Carollo has turned their program around. No doubt about it. Was some of it luck? Yup! But the fact of the matter is that Whitewater is #1 in the Country. She has put together some solid recruits and the ranking speaks for itself.

My question, being a Oshy fan, is how long Schumacher will be allowed a pass in Titanland? Here is one of the historically best teams in the conference that she has run into the ground. Take a look at their roster year in and year out. How many players actually stick it out with her? Very few. Tough to win consistently when you have to replace kids that quit the team. That tells one of two things.
1) Recruiting kids that aren't mentally tough enough to stick out four years of college ball
2) Kids flat out don't like to play for her

I have heard stories about the latter but will cover my arse by saying it doesn't even matter. In either case, she is failing the program. How long will it continue? Does the admin have the cajones to send her back to the high school ranks? Is her past (player & high school coach) in town blinding everyone? What do you all think?

jam8788 · November 05, 2008, 09:36:59 AM

Because the UWO AD is notorious for not pulling the trigger on dying coaches, I would bet that Schuemacher is a lifer at UWO. Just look at the men's side of the basketball program, currently undergoing a 5-year drought of not being able to get past the 2nd round in the WIAC tournament. The men's team is infamous for not being able to perform under pressure. And this year isn't looking a whole lot better either. I do have to admit that TVD had some good teams in 2002 and 2003 that went far in the NCAA tournament though. But how many years does an NCAA tournament berth buy a coach?