FB: Region 3 fan poll

[Ron Boerger]

I know this is going to seem harsh, but...

You Wesley fans aren't going to get any sympathy from any of us in Texas.  I don't know what the reasons are that you seem to have trouble scheduling games (it's not because you're historically a powerhouse, because you really haven't been up until the last few years).  You're smack-dab in the middle of the biggest part of D-3 territory.  If you can't get games scheduled, how in the world do you think we in Texas get games scheduled?

Ron

You are wrong!! Wesley has been beating on eastern and most of the Va. teams for a
number of years. Up until a few years ago if you didn't go undefeated you weren't a power. You have never had any respect for Wesley even after theyu beat your beloved  Texas team two years running.
And if you hgad read my previous posts you would  have read that I included Texas along with the western schools when I brought up scheduling problems for Wesley and Salisbury. Frostburg usually plays only nine games and they are beatable so teams opt for them i.e Ithaca this year..

Ron didn't say this.  Check your attribution again.

[Ralph Turner]

Well, I guess from looking a little more closely, that Huntingdon and LaGrange will only end up with a couple in region games because the teams in their conference aren't are not considered in region games. Huntingdon will have only three and LaGrange only two.

Why don't the conference games count as "in-region" games?

According the FAQ on D3football.com they should.

....
Based on how things are set up, a 10-0 Huntingdon team, and 8-2 LaGrange with one region loss but more regional wins could get in above a Wesley or Salisbury with one regional loss but fewer regional wins.

Let's not count LaGrange out just yet.  Oh and their only loss so far this year was a narrow one to a ranked NAIA team.

Probably a question for the Gurus to direct to the NCAA.

[PA_wesleyfan]

Ron


Sorry!!! I have no idea why I put the wrong name to that. I fixed it

[PA_wesleyfan]

Ralph

If we can come up with a transporter we could get Wesley to Texas and Wisconsin and vise versa for games 

[SaintsFAN]

Maybe scheduling is harder for Wesley because of all the new conference affiliations?  Just a thought... I know Thomas More had no problems with scheduling Wesley in 1993 and 1994 (back when we only had 3 conference games), but I know its more difficult now that the Saints are in the PAC, and have the Bridge Bowl series annually with Mount St Joe. 

Maybe other teams are in similar predicaments?


*Edit*I just read further and saw this is being covered already

[Josh Bowerman]

Wesleyfan--

You have never played, nor beaten, the Texas team I root for.  Thought you might want to get that little discrpancy straightened out, too.   

Also, I have never disrespected Wesley.  If you can show me where I have, I will apologize to you publicly.

I do think the Wolverines have gotten fat on some pretty spare competition over the past few years, but they've had some talent, too.  This has been borne out in the playoffs, including two wins over a Texas team that I most definitely DO NOT root for. 

My point was that your team not getting games must have something to do with something besides your record, because, it's not your overall dominance.  Last three years aside, your squad has gone:

1999:  6-4
2000:  8-2
2001:  7-3
2002:  5-5
2003:  6-4
2004:  8-2

Some nice seasons, but certainly nothing that would cause opponents to run and hide, as you have suggested.

And with regard to conference affiliation, I think Wesley would be a good fit (athletically and academically) in either the PAC, the MAC or the USAC--the first and last both only having 8 football-playing members, currently. 

[PA_wesleyfan]

Josh

I guess we will not see eye to eye on some points and that's fine...

As far as the conference alliances that could work.. The PAC has never been an option as far as I know though Wesley has played most of the schools at one time or another. The MAC, logical but with three of the schools not wanting to extend Widener, or not honoring commitments to play next year, Del Val and Lycoming I don't see them running to Wesley's door and inviting them in. And once again Wesley has play Wilkes a few times and a few of the other schools in ECAC games. The USAC has been approached and rejected Wesley once before even though Wesley had some of the schools in the ACFC before the then Dixie conf. picked up football.

Wesley had played Ferrum and Chowan for years since their Jr college days. Ferrum abruptly ended that commitment weeks before the season started a few years back and Chowan had fallen on such hard times that they asked out because they couldn't compete with Wesley . So that was two year after year games lost.

As for other teams not wanting to play Wesley??? Good question. IMHO most teams are not prepared to get smacked in the mouth and that is how Wesley plays hard nosed football. It's funny how Lyco called the Monday after Wesley kicked Wideners tail and backed out. And yes they picked up Rowan but they still had two open dates. 

[Ralph Turner]

1)  Millsaps (2)	47	.....1,1,2,2,2
2)  Muhlenberg (2)	42	.....1,1,2,4,5
3)  UMHB (1)	41	.....1,3,3,3,4
4)  Wesley	36	.....2,3,4,5,5
5)  HSU	34	.....3,4,4,5,5
6)  CNU	21	.....6,6,6,8,8
7)  Thomas More	15	.....7,8,8,8,9
8 )  Huntingdon	14	.....7,7,7,10,10
9)  Trinity	10	.....6,7,10,-,-
10) Salisbury	5	.....6,-,-,-,-
RV  Catholic	4	.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  W&J	4	.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  Ferrum	1	.....10,-,-,-,-
RV  LaGrange	1	.....10,-,-,-,-

Watch list: HSC

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC)

[Ralph Turner]

The top 5 teams are solid.

After that, confusion reigns.

CNU has a loss to Salisbury and a "hurricane/rain-out" to Wesley.  CNU hosts Averett and Ferrum to finish the USA South season.

Thomas More appears for the first time.  They play Pres AC rival Geneva (common opponent to Salisbury and W&J) and Bridge Bowl rival Mt St Joseph.

Huntingdon hosts Hampden-Sydney and then travels to LaGrange.

Trinity TX lost to Millsaps this weekend and plays at Centre and hosts Austin.  (Trinity beat Birmingham-Southern 48-20.)

Salisbury has numerous common opponents with several teams who received votes.  Salisbury beat Albright (which is tied for the MAC), beat non-region St John Fisher (which is tied in the E8), beat Geneva (Pres AC) by 42, beat CNU 38-21, but lost to Del Valley and Wesley.  They play in-state rival Frostburg on Nov 15th.

Catholic has a win over Hampden-Sydney and a loss to Randolph-Macon.

W&J  plays Bethany and Waynesburg.

Ferrum has a loss to Emory & Henry, and plays NCWC and CNU.

LaGrange finishes the season hosting Huntingdon.  (LaGrange has a win over Birmingham-Southern 34-31.)

(Maryville TN has losses at Huntingdon by 6, to LaGrange by 24, at Ferrum by 14 and to CNU by 7.)

[exmajor]

1)  Millsaps (2)	47	.....1,1,2,2,2
2)  Muhlenberg (2)	42	.....1,1,2,4,5
3)  UMHB (1)	41	.....1,3,3,3,4
4)  Wesley	36	.....2,3,4,5,5
5)  HSU	34	.....3,4,4,5,5
6)  CNU	21	.....6,6,6,8,8
7)  Thomas More	15	.....7,8,8,8,9
8 )  Huntingdon	14	.....7,7,7,10,10
9)  Trinity	10	.....6,7,10,-,-
10) Salisbury	5	.....6,-,-,-,-
RV  Catholic	4	.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  W&J	4	.....9,9,-,-,-
RV  Ferrum	1	.....10,-,-,-,-
RV  LaGrange	1	.....10,-,-,-,-

Watch list: HSC

Clinched bids in bold:  Thomas More (Pres AC)

Ralph,

Unless I am missing something Millsaps clinched the automatic playoff for the SCAC yesterday.  The Majors have Colorado College and Birmingham Southern left, but BS-C does not count in conference yet, so the worst Millsaps can do is lose to CC and have a co-title with Trinity, but still retain the automatic qual. based on head to head.

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph,

Unless I am missing something, Millsaps clinched the automatic playoff for the SCAC yesterday.  The Majors have Colorado College and Birmingham Southern left, but BS-C does not count in conference yet, so the worst Millsaps can do is lose to CC and have a co-title with Trinity, but still retain the automatic qual. based on head to head.

We heard it here first!    +1!

[Ron Boerger]

I don't understand how anyone can in good conscience be voting Muhlenberg #1 in this region.  Their competition is mediocre (143rd in OWP) and they have struggled to put away some teams they are much better than (average MOV:  18.4 pts but only 8.5 pts against their last two .500 opponents).  Contrast that with Millsaps (30th in OWP) whose closest win has been by 20 points, and who has leveled the three best D3 teams on their schedule (then-healthy Miss Coll, DePauw, Trinity) by over 35 points per game.  Millsaps' average margin of victory is 32.4 ppg.

So ... I'd be interested in hearing anyone's rationale for voting Muhlenberg over Millsaps at this point in the season. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Ron,

My guess is that is has something to do with recent playoff success.  I understand that we should be considering only this season, but with so few inter-conference games we have to consider recent playoff success as our best comparison of a couple of undefeated teams.

Muhlenberg won a playoff game last year.

The SCAC hasn't won a playoff game since 2002 (I think).

It's not necessarily a sound argument.  But it's just hard for most people to believe that Millsaps is totally legit until the SCAC proves its worth by winning a major non-conference matchup or a playoff game.

[DPU3619]

I don't think that Trinity's playoff failures have anything to do with where Millsaps is in relation to the Mules in Week 8 of 2008.  Millsaps was there once, and they weren't a very good football team when they went.

[Ralph Turner]

Ron,

My guess is that is has something to do with recent playoff success.  I understand that we should be considering only this season, but with so few inter-conference games we have to consider recent playoff success as our best comparison of a couple of undefeated teams.

Muhlenberg won a playoff game last year.

The SCAC hasn't won a playoff game since 2002 (I think).

It's not necessarily a sound argument.  But it's just hard for most people to believe that Millsaps is totally legit until the SCAC proves its worth by winning a major non-conference matchup or a playoff game.

I don't think that the rest of D-III understands the "Texas sub-bracket".

Let's look at where D3 football.com has the Texas teams after week 11 in the polls.  Why don't we get any easy (cream puff) playoff games early?

2003

#10) Bridgewater --  Beat Waynesburg 28-24, CNU 26-3, and Lycoming 13-9 before losing to MUC
#11) UMHB -- stayed home as ASC Tri-Champ (lost to ETBU in OT)
#15) HSC -- stayed home as ODAC runner-up
#16) ETBU -- Beat "#26" Trinity in the first round 42-41 OT; lost at #1 seed Lycoming  13-7 in Round #2 in OT
#17) HSU -- stayed home as ASC Tri-Champ (beat ETBU in OT)
#18) Lycoming -- #1 seed with bye, then beat ETBU, 13-7 OT.  Lost to Bridgewater in Round #3
#20) CNU -- beat Muhlenberg in Round #1 Lost at Bridgewater in Round #2
#22)  Waynesburg -- Lost to Bridgewater in Round #1.
#"26")  Trinity -- lost in OT to ETBU in Round #1.

2004

#3)  HSU  -- bye and loses to UMHB in Round #2 42-28.
#5)  W&J --  beats Bridgewater 55-48 2OT and CNU 24-14 before losing to UMHB 52-16 at home.
#7)  Trinity -- Loses to UMHB, 32-13?  Why does the third highest ranked South Region team have to play the fourth highest South Region team in the first round. 
#8)  UMHB -- on the road as a Pool C bid, wins at Trinity 32-13, at HSU 42-28, at W&J 52-16, at MUC 38-35 before losing in the Stagg Bowl to Linfield 28-21.
#10)  Salisbury lost to CNU
#11)  Del Valley beat Shenandoah
#17)  Bridgewater -- lost to W&J in 2OT
#19)  CNU -- beat Salisbury
UR)  Shenandoah-- sent East

Do you see why we Texas fans think that the northern half of the Region is not as tough (with the exception of Wesley)?  Wesley usually matches up well with us.

2005

#4)  UMHB -- beats Trinity 35-6 in the first round;  loses to Wesley in Round #2, 46-36
#8)  Trinity -- loses to UMHB in the first round.  Hmmm, why are those two teams playing in the first round and not being paired up as the South Region final?
#13)  W&J -- Loses to Bridgewater 30-21 in the first round.
#14)  Thiel -- Beats JHU 28-3; lost to Bridgewater 24-13
#17)  Bridgewater -- beats W&J 30-21, beats Thiel . loses to Wesley, 46-7.
#22)  HSU -- Sits home (Not a Pool C team.)
#24)  Wesley -- Pool B team.  Beats Ferrum 59-14; beats UMHB 46-36; beats Bridgewater 46-7; lost at UWW in the shoe game on ice 58-6.

2006

#3)  Wesley --  Beat Dickinson 49-21; beat CMU 37-0; beat  UMHB 34-20; lost at UWW 44-7.
#5)  UMHB  -- Beat HSU in the first round 33-21; Beat W&J 30-27; Lost at Wesley 34-20.
#6)  HSU  -- Lost to UMHB in the first round  21-33.  First round, again?
#20) W&J -- Beat "#26" CNU 27-23, Lost to UMHB 30-27.   
#24)  Carnegie Mellon -- Beat "#32" Millsaps  21-0; Lost at Wesley 37-0.
"#32")  Millsaps -- Lost at Carnegie Mellon 21-0.

2007

#4)  UMHB -- Beat Trinity 52-23; beat NCWC 64-0; beat Wesley 27-10; lost to champion UWW 16-7.
#6)  Wesley -- Beat H-SC 45-17; beat Muhlenberg 38-21; lost to UMHB, 27-10.
#7)  W&J -- #1 seed in the south--lost to #8 seed NCWC, 35-34 OT.
#10) Salisbury -- Lost at Muhlenberg 31-21
#11) Trinity -- 5th highest South region team has to play highest ranked #4 UMHB?   Loses to UMHB 52-23
#13)  Muhlenberg -- beat Salisbury 31-21; Lost at Wesley 38-21.
"#29") Hampden-Sydney -- Lost at Wesley 45-17
"#30") NCWC -- beat W&J 35-34 OT; lost at UMHB 64-0.