FB: Region 3 fan poll

[Ralph Turner]

When did they make this switch and why???

When did they make this switch and why???

Today. And I suspect because Region 6 was ludicrously stacked with top teams and conferences.

https://d3football.com/notables/2021/10/region-shift

Modifying this post because I couldn't count after I ran out of my fingers and toes.

BSCpanthers, there have been 21 Stagg Bowls since the beginning of the Pool system in 1999. There have been 21 Stagg Bowl participants (including St Thomas from its MIAC days) from the Region 6 as it was originally established.  The only Region 3 teams to participate in the Stagg Bowl in the last 21 years are Bridgewater in 2001 and Trinity TX in 2002.

[jknezek]

Obviously we have some changes to the Poll this week. The ASC is in, the PAC is out with the redefinition of the Region.

First, I want to thank ADL70 who was our PAC representative through the first half of the season. With the changes in Region composition, ADL70 quite understandably chose not to continue.

Second, I want to thank Ralph Turner for agreeing to join us as the ASC representative. Many of us probably know that Ralph ran the South Region Fan Poll prior to me taking over this year, so it is great to have him back!

Finally, the Week to Week comparison and Newly Ranked vs Dropped Out data will return next week, but with the significant change to the Poll this week there was no point.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 7

Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC

Rank			School			Points			Weekly Change			Voter Breakdown
1			UMHB (4)			33						1 , 3 , 1 , 1 , 1
2			Trinity (TX) (1)			29						3 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 2
3			B-SC			23						2 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 4
4			Hardin-Simmons			22						5 , 5 , 3 , 2 , 3
5			Howard Payne			16						4 , 4 , 7 , 4 , 5
6			W&L			11						6 , 6 , 5 , 6 , 6
7			R-MC			5						7 , 7 , 6 , 7

Also Receiving Votes:
Huntingdon (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Hawks88, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, jknezek

[BSCpanthers]

I'll go ahead and throw myself under the bus, I was the one that put UMHB in 3rd.  They have only one quality win, It was at home, and it was only by 8.  Trinity has 2 quality wins, one home, one away, win them by 20 and 21, BSC also has 2 quality wins, both on the road, one win by 39, the other by 7.  I just feel at this point in the season those two teams have the better wins and deserve the ranking.  All that of course will change each week as the season goes on. 

[SW1]

I'll go ahead and throw myself under the bus, I was the one that put UMHB in 3rd.  They have only one quality win, It was at home, and it was only by 8.  Trinity has 2 quality wins, one home, one away, win them by 20 and 21, BSC also has 2 quality wins, both on the road, one win by 39, the other by 7.  I just feel at this point in the season those two teams have the better wins and deserve the ranking.  All that of course will change each week as the season goes on.

Nothing wrong with that logic at all. The first or second round of the playoffs will tell the story in the end anyways. Looks like if everything keeps on he course its on they will meet in Belton in about a month. Not to make any excuses for UMHB play up til now but sometimes they just look inspired during regular season games and HSU was a prime example of this. They seem to up their intensity when the playoffs roll around. Not sure this is a good thing with Bellhaven and HPU improving like they have. MHB will need to start getting in playoff mode. Just an observation after watching the last 15 yrs of Crusader football.

[Ralph Turner]

Welcome to the Boards, SW1.
+1

[crufootball]

I'll go ahead and throw myself under the bus, I was the one that put UMHB in 3rd.  They have only one quality win, It was at home, and it was only by 8.  Trinity has 2 quality wins, one home, one away, win them by 20 and 21, BSC also has 2 quality wins, both on the road, one win by 39, the other by 7.  I just feel at this point in the season those two teams have the better wins and deserve the ranking.  All that of course will change each week as the season goes on.

Just out of curiosity what qualifies as as a quality win in your book?

[BSCpanthers]

Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams. 

[crufootball]

Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams.

If wins over teams with 2 wins is the deciding factor than HSU should be #1 since they have 3 while Trinity, BSC and UMHB only have 2.

As for quality wins, only 1 team has a victory over another team still in this poll which is UMHB over HSU.

I could agree with you that UMHB only has 1 quality win this year but I could also argue that since Centre has already lost to Trinity and BSC that they may not be the quality win in the SAA that they usually are.

In the end, my ultimate question to you is do you think that Trinity and BSC could both beat UMHB on a neutral field?

[jknezek]

Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams.

If wins over teams with 2 wins is the deciding factor than HSU should be #1 since they have 3 while Trinity, BSC and UMHB only have 2.

As for quality wins, only 1 team has a victory over another team still in this poll which is UMHB over HSU.

I could agree with you that UMHB only has 1 quality win this year but I could also argue that since Centre has already lost to Trinity and BSC that they may not be the quality win in the SAA that they usually are.

In the end, my ultimate question to you is do you think that Trinity and BSC could both beat UMHB on a neutral field?

HSU has a loss, Trinity and B-SC don't. I voted UMHB first because I think they win that game on a neutral field. But if you start this year fresh, no history bias, UMHB's schedule doesn't have much to recommend it besides Hardin Simmons... and that wasn't real convincing. Trinity's win over Centre was solid, not so much B-SC's win over Centre.

Hardin Simmons remains in the poll BECAUSE they played UMHB close. Centre is out because they got shelled. Then lost again. So if Trinity is better, it makes sense they shelled a good team when UMHB squeaked a good team. Or Hardin Simmons could be a lot better than Centre.

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

I do think there is a stretch to have B-SC ahead of UMHB. The two defeats of Centre are enough of a common opponent difference that it's hard to have them in the same tier for me. And Huntingdon grinding through a very weak USAS just doesn't move the needle.

[crufootball]

HSU has a loss, Trinity and B-SC don't. I voted UMHB first because I think they win that game on a neutral field. But if you start this year fresh, no history bias, UMHB's schedule doesn't have much to recommend it besides Hardin Simmons... and that wasn't real convincing. Trinity's win over Centre was solid, not so much B-SC's win over Centre.

Hardin Simmons remains in the poll BECAUSE they played UMHB close. Centre is out because they got shelled. Then lost again. So if Trinity is better, it makes sense they shelled a good team when UMHB squeaked a good team. Or Hardin Simmons could be a lot better than Centre.

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

I do think there is a stretch to have B-SC ahead of UMHB. The two defeats of Centre are enough of a common opponent difference that it's hard to have them in the same tier for me. And Huntingdon grinding through a very weak USAS just doesn't move the needle.

I have no issues with the placement of HSU, since they do have a loss, a non D3 win and then some close victories I think it is going to be a close call come playoff selection time. I only included them because BSCpanthers mentioned wins over teams with 2 victories.

I will also admit that if you blindly just looked at the records and results of UMHB, Trinity and BSC it would be extremely difficult to rank them and UMHB with a #167 SOS would probably not come out on top.

Lots of football to be played for all these teams so they will have a chance to prove themselves as much as you can with only 10ish games.

[SW1]

Wins over someone with at least 2 wins would help....   

Wins over teams that have shown themselves to be quality teams.  Winning records, and losses are competitive losses to quality teams.

If wins over teams with 2 wins is the deciding factor than HSU should be #1 since they have 3 while Trinity, BSC and UMHB only have 2.

As for quality wins, only 1 team has a victory over another team still in this poll which is UMHB over HSU.

I could agree with you that UMHB only has 1 quality win this year but I could also argue that since Centre has already lost to Trinity and BSC that they may not be the quality win in the SAA that they usually are.

In the end, my ultimate question to you is do you think that Trinity and BSC could both beat UMHB on a neutral field?

HSU has a loss, Trinity and B-SC don't. I voted UMHB first because I think they win that game on a neutral field. But if you start this year fresh, no history bias, UMHB's schedule doesn't have much to recommend it besides Hardin Simmons... and that wasn't real convincing. Trinity's win over Centre was solid, not so much B-SC's win over Centre.

Hardin Simmons remains in the poll BECAUSE they played UMHB close. Centre is out because they got shelled. Then lost again. So if Trinity is better, it makes sense they shelled a good team when UMHB squeaked a good team. Or Hardin Simmons could be a lot better than Centre.

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

I do think there is a stretch to have B-SC ahead of UMHB. The two defeats of Centre are enough of a common opponent difference that it's hard to have them in the same tier for me. And Huntingdon grinding through a very weak USAS just doesn't move the needle.

UMHB squeaks by HSU every year and they still go 3 to 5 rounds into the playoffs. You can't determine a lot from that game because it almost always is a close one. I am just glad that the Cru may have a chance to play someone else in the first round not in their own conference for a change. Don't want to jump ahead because we still have some good teams left to play...when was the last time I said that about Bellhaven and HPU? McMurry is coming on also it seems.

[tigerguy]

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

What led to your conclusion that UMHB's win over TLU was more impressive than Trinity's? You already acknowledge it was a close comparison so I'm not attacking your conclusion - just wanted to know what took the UMHB win over the top for you.

[crufootball]

One thing that was weird about the TLU/UMHB game was the lack of urgency on behalf on the Bulldogs. I understand early in the game that they realized the best way to limit our offense was to simply hold onto the ball. However they never seemed to relent on that strategy, letting the play clock get close to 5 before snapping the ball when they needed points.   

[jknezek]

However, when you compare UMHB's win over TLU to Trinity's,  it's a close conparison. I would say UMHB was more impressive, which is one solid reason I rank them ahead, but it's not massively conclusive.

What led to your conclusion that UMHB's win over TLU was more impressive than Trinity's? You already acknowledge it was a close comparison so I'm not attacking your conclusion - just wanted to know what took the UMHB win over the top for you.

Little things. UMHB held them to 124 yards of total offense vs 233 for Trinity. UMHB got 6.7 yds per play, Trinity 6.3 yds per play. TLU's longest drive against UMHB was 28 yards, TLU had at least 4 drives that long or longer against Trinity. And last, but not least, 14pts vs 3 pts given up.

Now a double monkey stomp is a double monkey stomp. And both teams delivered just that. But when you compare the stats, UMHB's was a bit more impressive to me. On the other hand, Trinity's offense did rack up a few more yards, 517 to 455, and obviously scored a few more points, 51 to 49, and Trinity was on the road while UMHB was at home. So it's not all black and white.

But if you have to split hairs, and that's really what this is, I feel comfortable with how I split the hairs.

[Wild Horse Rider]

I believe someone on the ASC board mentioned that Belhaven might be able to pull the upset.  My rankings remained unchanged as I was the lone vote for Howard Payne at 7.  I was tempted to put Huntingdon in the 7th spot but decided to wait it out one more week.  This weekend has some interesting games around the region that I will be keeping an eye on.  In the ASC you have H-S vs HP and if HP loses they are out of the top 7 in my opinion.  That will be magnified if UMHB beats Belhaven handily.  In the SAA BSU and Berry meet up in what should be a sort of measuring stick game for the next weeks showdown of BSU and Trinity.  Comparative scoring favors BSU slightly but I wouldn't bet any money either way in this one.  With no real dog in that fight I want to see BSU win so we have a matchup of the undefeated SAA teams next weekend.  In the ODAC Shenandoah plays RMC and after the defensive performance Shenandoah put up last weekend I would not put an upset out of the question.  The USAC has a matchup that won't really affect the regional rankings but will likely determine the second place finisher in the conference when Brevard and Methodist play.  All this on Halloween Eve