FB: Region 3 fan poll

[jknezek]

Now we have something to talk about! It was too boring when we mostly agreed!

jknezek,
My votes mirrored the top seven teams in the poll with one reversal of places.  I think all voters are struggling with 8.9 & 10.  I did not vote for Sul Ross because their scores in the last three years with Eastern New Mexico were very similar in points. Depending on Trinity's game against UMHB and Sully's game against UMHB I might move them up considerably.  I also did not vote for Trinity for the same reason I dropped Hardin Simmons.  I personally cannot vote a team in the top 10 whose defense gives up 58 and 62 points.  I am open to any criticism but I thought I might share a few reasons for some of my votes.  We must all remember it is still early in the season and I agree the games this week among teams listed in this poll might clear some things up!

PS;  Don't expect me to share my votes each week!!   

I know how you feel. You can ask Ralph about what I put together this week when doing my votes. Between my top 10 and my various watchlists for various reasons, I had about 20 teams that I COULD justify a vote for in that 7-10 spot. I think we're often hardest on our own conferences. For example, there is no way I could vote for W&L (alumni alert here!) even though they easily handled Centre because of that F&M loss, but they are on one of my watchlists. Personally I couldn't figure out why Centre was so highly ranked to start the year anyway given how loaded with seniors they were last year.

I could and did put Sul Ross State at 7 because if you absolutely destroy a previous top 3 team, while being on the road, I can excuse your two losses up in division. Now if they lose uncompetitively to UMHB, they probably go right back out because I'd have a hard time justifying 1-1 D3, 1-3 overall, regardless of the competition. Records matter, but so do opponents. It's a balancing act. I did have Trinity at 10, but if they get shelled by UMHB they are probably going out as well. There will be some clarity after this weekend. UMHB, Wesley, B-SC, JHU, La College, H-SC, TMC, Huntingdon, Trinity all play games that the winner will have a case for inclusion, and the loser either dropping out or dropping to the bottom.

Overall I don't see where anyone could have a bone about any of the votes, as they are all logically justifiable to some degree in my opinion, even if I went a different direction.

[Toby Taff]

I left Trinity in @ 10 as well waiting to see the game Saturday. I didn't put in SRSU because if you plotted the Trinity win on a graph  it would be the anomaly that gets discounted until more data is collected.  I also struggled deciding on who to include. It should clear itself up in the next few weeks. 

[jknezek]

I left Trinity in @ 10 as well waiting to see the game Saturday. I didn't put in SRSU because if you plotted the Trinity win on a graph  it would be the anomaly that gets discounted until more data is collected.  I also struggled deciding on who to include. It should clear itself up in the next few weeks.

I think that's fair, but I've always felt that what gets proved on the field matters most. And what SRSU did to Trinity, on Trinity's field, proved that they were a MUCH better team in every facet of the game. It wasn't even all that competitive. So I can't think of a way to rank Trinity higher than SRSU based on my own criteria right now. Further results may change my mind as any single result has a short shelf life, (which is why I think R-MC, W&L, Centre and other 1 loss teams can also recover). I can certainly understand other rankings when looked at through a different prism.

[Ralph Turner]

If Trinity  was looking ahead shame on them .  A two loss team from the south is going to have a tough time getting a C bid unless parity equals throughout all of  D3  and there are few undefeated team!

I still have trouble seeing the northern south region teams other than Wesley matching up speed and size with the big boys down south.

Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games.

I think that the top seed (hosting round 1 and 2) in the northern area of the South Region will come down to an undefeated Centennial Pool A (Muhlenberg, JHU or Gettysburg) or an undefeated ODAC Pool A (H-SC).

[Ralph Turner]

"Nevertheless, I can see a 9-1 or 10-0 H-SC getting one or two post-season games."

I agree with that Ralph. I can see a few real good teams staying home because they went out made the schedules they did.Wesley has to win out and with games at La college and Huntingdon along with a home game with Birmingham so.  Trinity has to win out period and I don't see them beating UMHB. 

With so many cross schedule games with the top South teams it could be a disaster!!!LOL

There comes a time in the program's development when you are playing for the right to host the Round of 8 game.
I think that Wesley is Pool B/C selection with one loss, head-to-head with an "undefeated" UMHB? A one TD loss.  Not bad.
Beat UMHB and go undefeated?  You probably can claim #4 or maybe #2 or #1 overall seed depending  the rest of the country.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I think that Wesley is Pool B/C selection with one loss, head-to-head with an "undefeated" UMHB? A one TD loss.  Not bad.  Beat UMHB and go undefeated?  You probably can claim #4 or maybe #2 or #1 overall seed depending  the rest of the country.

Strictly from a common sense standpoint, I agree with you, assuming that Wesley wins out.  However, the selection-committee criteria doesn't always allow the sort of "OK, we know that Wesley lost a game, but it was a Week 3 loss by one touchdown that came on the heels of a road win in a rivalry game against another Top-10 caliber team."

Wesley needs to win out and root like hell for Salisbury to win the Empire 8 so they'll have a win over a regionally-ranked opponent.  It'd be even better if BSC and/or Louisiana College also put together impressive seasons.  With such a short Division III schedule, Wesley really needs those wins to look good.  Again, I'm speaking from a "criteria" perspective, not from a "do they pass the eyeball test" perspective (because of course they do).

[tigerguy]

I think that's fair, but I've always felt that what gets proved on the field matters most. And what SRSU did to Trinity, on Trinity's field, proved that they were a MUCH better team in every facet of the game. It wasn't even all that competitive. So I can't think of a way to rank Trinity higher than SRSU based on my own criteria right now. Further results may change my mind as any single result has a short shelf life, (which is why I think R-MC, W&L, Centre and other 1 loss teams can also recover). I can certainly understand other rankings when looked at through a different prism.

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

[jknezek]

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.

[Toby Taff]

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.

also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.

[Ralph Turner]

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.

also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.

San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.

[Toby Taff]

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.

also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.

San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.

times about the same, Ralph, but far fewer places to stop or things to look at out the windows

[roocru]

Jknezek - The Trinity vs. SRSU game was played AT Sul Russ. I can't say that Trinity would have made it closer/won had it been at home, but from what I've gathered the field was in terrible condition from the rain. (Plus Trinity is incredibly hard to beat at home) Looking forward to seeing an angry Tigers team get in the ring with UMHB on their brand new field come this Saturday!

My mistake. I'd say that would have affected my thoughts on the game, but it was such a bad loss by Trinity it probably wouldn't have. I usually check those home/away facts closely since I put a lot of stock in road upsets at the D3 level where travel is so onerous. But the game showed such a disparity on the field, and yes I listened in to parts of it (computer kept skipping out) because I couldn't believe the updates as well as looking at the stats, that it wouldn't have mattered to me.

All that being said, I still had Trinity 10 in my poll. I think the South Region would be hard pressed to find 9 times that could consistently beat Trinity in home and homes in most years. We'll see how they play against UMHB.

also consider the 375 mile bus trip from san antonio to alpine. I don't think it makes up for the monkey stomping, but it is another factor.

San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.

times about the same, Ralph, but far fewer places to stop or things to look at out the windows

I was told that one year, while returning to Belton from Alpine late at night, the Cru charter bus broke down.  While they were waiting some of the guys played a pick up touch football game in the highway.  The first time they had to stop the game was when the new charter bus pulled up several hours later.   

[tigerguy]

San Antonio to Sherman is 337 miles is solid traffic up the I-35 corriidor. The trip to Alpine has some 80 MPH speed limits and almost no traffic. Travel is about the same.

And if you recall the Tigers only beat AC 7-6 last year when they had to go there

[Ralph Turner]

Update...

Week #3  Things got crazy last weekend.  Centre is gone and we have 3 new teams getting votes in week #3 who were not in the week #2 poll.

1) UMHB  (5)	50	1,1,1,1,1	Wins at Trinity
2) Wesley	44	2,2,2,2,3	Wins at La College
3) B-SC	40	2,3,3,3,4	wins at Rhodes
4) JHU	30	3,4,5,6,7	wins at Muhlenberg
5) LaCollege	29	4,5,5,6,6	Loses to Wesley
.	.	.	.
6) H-SC	22	4,5,6,7,x	Huntingdon wins
7) Thomas More	12	6,8,9,9,x	loses at Waynesburg
8) SRSU	11	4,7,x,x,x	Open
9) Huntingdon	10	5,8,10,x,x	wins at H-SC
10) Millsaps	7	7,8,x,x,x	Open
.	.	.	.
RV) Trinity	5	8,10,10,10,x	Lost to UMHB
RV) Gettysburg	4	9,9,x,x,x	wins at Susquehanna
RV) W&L	4	7,x,x,x,x	Open
RV) Muhlenberg	4	8,10,,x,x	loses to JHU
RV) W&J	2	9,x,x,x,x	wins at Thiel
			.

[Toby Taff]

It's safe to say that Trinity won't be getting any love from me in next weeks pole