FB: Region 3 fan poll

[wesleydad]

jk, you would send wesley to the east not the north.  I doubt that happens since they will likely send mount to the east.  wesley will get a home game if they are in the south due to travel and proximity.  they would host either the odac or usas champs.  that is they way it has happened for the past number of years.

[HSC85]

The only difficulty is if McMurry, Trinity and UMHB are in the South.  Then you would have 4 undefeated teams in the South, UMHB, Thomas More, Trinity, and Johns Hopkins.  If Texas get two home games, does Wesley host over JHU or Thomas More?  They could fly the USA South champ to UMHB and have JHU and Thomas More host Wesley and the ODAC champ.  ODAC champ will be within 500 miles from Thomas More.  I think that Wesley could be moved East and Centre could be moved North.  The NCAA could also move JHU East and give Wesley a home game.

[jknezek]

WesleyDad -- I would send Wesley to the East, you are correct. However, I don't think Wesley will get a home game in the South this year. Not with a 6-1 record and an in-region loss when there are 4 undefeated south teams (assuming UMHB, Centre/Trinity, JHU, and TMC win out). I just can't imagine the committee sending one of them on the road when there are simple ways to keep them at home. Generally I agree Wesley deserves a home game. This year, I just don't see it in the South. There are plenty of ways to keep Wesley from having to travel too far sending them into the East. And since there are only 2 possible undefeated teams in the East (MAC and LL), I could see both UMU and Wesley moving that way.

HSC85 --You can only have 4 undefeated teams in the South. I think they each should get a home game and easily set up the bracket that way, well within travel limits except for one team.

And no, as I wrote above, I don't think Wesley hosts at 6-1 in D3, in-region loss, when there are 4 undefeated South teams. I could be wrong and the committee will give them the benefit of the doubt, but I hope that going undefeated across a 10 game D3 schedule, at least 9 games in-region, will count for a home game. That is the committee emphasis...

[Ralph Turner]

Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   

[jknezek]

Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool C. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.

[Ralph Turner]

Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool B. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.

Having 9 teams from a region is not uncommon.  That is common in the West Region.  If you look at how one can set up a bracket using the 500-mile radius rule, then the bracket begins to take shape.

JHU and Wesley can  be moved to the East bracket very easily.

The West Region  7 AQ's including:

Iowa IAC -- TBA
MIAC -- St Thomas
Midwest  -- Monmouth
Northwest -- Linfield vs L&C
SCIAC -- Cal Lutheran
UMAC -- St Scholastica
WIAC -- UWW

There may also be 2 Pool C bids, MIAC (St Olaf) and SCIAC (Redlands).

UWW has been moved into the North Region in recent seasons, which might happen this season.

[Pat Coleman]

We talk a little more about this in our podcast this week:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/10/31/atn-podcast-snow-records-clinching/

[jknezek]

Someone can be flown into any venue for the playoffs.

I think that an ASC Pool C bid gets sent to an undefeated Trinity, and someone, even someone from a different evaluation region, is sent to UMHB on the south side of the South Region Bracket.   

That creates an even bigger logjam in the South. The problem I have with the South is there are 9 teams that I think go through. So we are already exporting 1. By flying another team in, we now have to export 2 teams. Unless either the SCAC or ASC don't get a Pool C. With Centre and Trinity's SOS and possible regional wins (not released yet), I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not getting a Pool B. McMurry and La Col have the lower SOS, but I'm assuming the winner will have a regional win to fall back on.

Having 9 teams from a region is not uncommon.  That is common in the West Region.  If you look at how one can set up a bracket using the 500-mile radius rule, then the bracket begins to take shape.

JHU and Wesley can  be moved to the East bracket very easily.

No doubt they can be. Centre and TMC can be moved to the North pretty easily as well. The problem is, the North tends to export UMU already, especially to the East. So if the North exports UMU, and the East exports 2 teams, you now have 9 teams in the East, since there are 6 AQs. That means NO Pool C out of the East AND you have to export an East AQ team somewhere, possibly to the Texas sub-bracket? What is the point of doing that when you could have avoided the whole problem by setting up 8 teams from the South in the South. Considering the North usually overflows, and this year doesn't look much different, you just don't have enough spots in the East to import 2 from the South. One from the South, one from the North, and you still don't have a non-AQ.

Since the West is traditionally a very strong region, if we import a team from the West to play in TX, then you shift 2 South teams to the East, One North team to the East, and at least one East team to the North all we're doing is shuffling a very complicated deck. It's all possible, but the way I set up the South Region bracket makes it simple for everyone. The only complication is Wesley, who, in Del, is easy to shift almost anywhere in the East.

Distance from Wesley according to NCAA TES
WNEC 310
Endicott 402
SJFC 401
Norwich 472
Hobart 377
Del Val 103
Framingham State 360
Cortland State 288
Obviously Salisbury, Kean and Montgomery are all within range. I might have missed a few possibilities, but pretty much the whole region except maybe Maine Maritime is within 500 miles of Wesley.

[jknezek]

We talk a little more about this in our podcast this week:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/10/31/atn-podcast-snow-records-clinching/

Hmm. I'll stop posting about this topic until I get a chance to listen tonight. Thanks!

[wesleydad]

jk, i have no issue with wesley ending up in the east.  i believe that it will not be as strong as the south will be even if mount gets moved in.  i also know that i dont think any home team other than mount would want to see wesley's name show up in the first round.  the east looks like the weakest of the 4 so i am sure that someone good gets moved in to strengthen it.  2 teams moved in would not be a surprise either.  it is starting to get interesting and wesley still has to win out to even matter in the discussion.  this team seems a little different than the last couple as they look like they are improving as the season goes on not leveling off.

[jknezek]

i also know that i dont think any home team other than mount would want to see wesley's name show up in the first round. 

Absolutely. I'm not saying that Wesley isn't a better team than some of the undefeateds in the South. That's not the issue. I certainly don't want to see them hosting the ODAC champion, and I wouldn't want to see them travelling if I was some other conference winner!

I just think that an undefeated season should be rewarded with a home game when possible, although SOS should be a factor. Three of the four undefeated teams in the south are all better than 50% right now on their SOS, so I think those teams should play at home. TMC is the exception, but they aren't a flash in the pan program that can easily be relegated down the pecking order.

And yes, to some degree, I'm over-punishing Wesley for only having 7 D3 games. More specifically, they are paying for losing one of those 7. Had they lost to a non D3 team and gone undefeated in D3 games I'd be more inclined to put them above an undefeated team. Facts on the ground are that D3 emphasizes D3 games, so I think there needs to be some consequence to Wesley losing one of them.

[wesleydad]

jk, agree with your points.  i am just going on what has happened in recent years where wesley has hosted even with 1 lose.  this may be the year that as you state there are just too many undefeated teams in the south.  i will interested to see what happens to hopkins.  do they go east and wesley stay south to avoid the salisbury rematch if the gulls win the E8?  this is getting fun and the conversation is finally picking up.

[jknezek]

this is getting fun and the conversation is finally picking up.

Yep. Whatever did we do before the internet? So long as your team is still in it, or you are a big fan of D3, it's a great time of year. So much better than arguing over computer polls and politicized coaches picks to match only 2 teams for the title.

I will say that for the South Region I think this weekend is incredible. CNU Ferrum, W&L H-SC, Centre Trinity, and McM La Col. Four huge games all with big playoff implications.

[jknezek]

Looks like the first of 2 NCAA regional rankings are released. I pulled them from here:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/category/regional-rankings/

The South Region is as follows:
SOUTH
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0
2 Johns Hopkins 7-0 8-0
3 Wesley 4-1 7-1
4 Trinity (Texas) 8-0 8-0
5 McMurry 5-1 6-2
6 Centre 7-0 7-0
7 Louisiana College 6-1 7-1
8 Thomas More 8-0 8-0
9 Hampden-Sydney 7-1 7-1
10 Washington and Lee 8-1 8-1

Very interesting. Couple things that stand out. 1) Wesley is looking at a home game despite a regional loss and a 6 game regional schedule. 2) TMC looks like it could be the team to pay for Wesley getting a home game. Their rather bad SOS is most likely the culprit. 3) Both the ASC and the SCAC look in line to get two bids. Centre's SCAC case is greatly improved as W&L will show as at least 1x Regionally Ranked. So even a loss to Trinity may not be a problem. Trinity's case is diminished as Huntingdon does not show up in this ranking. While they may be added, especially as McM/LaCol and H-SC/W&L pairings will each generate a second loss, as of right now Trinity does not have a win against a Regionally Ranked team. A loss to Centre could be damaging, thought starting with a 4 ranking could provide enough cushion.

[wesleydad]

happily surprised by the wesley ranking.  glad to see they got some respect despite the limited regional schedule.  not sure if it means a home game, but if they win out it should mean they at least get in.  case, the other top B team, is at 5 in the north which i am sure caught some by surprise.  all in all, it looks about right to me.