FB: Region 3 fan poll

[Swish3]

I think CNU's drop in the Top 25 was a little steep, as well, roocru....they're getting less votes than two of the teams they've beaten.

[Pat Coleman]

I think CNU's drop in the Top 25 was a little steep, as well, roocru....they're getting less votes than two of the teams they've beaten.

And more votes than Methodist. It happens when you lose to teams you're not supposed to lose to.

[Swish3]

I understand, but it still seemed a little extreme to me....

[Swish3]

jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night.   I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

[jknezek]

jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night.   I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...

[roocru]

jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night.   I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...

I was the voter responsible for the vote on Randy Mac.  I voted that way for the reasons jknezek stated in the quote above but also for their rankings in the four polls I use to help me with my picks.  When you average the rankings for Kickoff, LAZ, Born and Compughter.com, Randy Mac has the fifth highest average of all the South teams.  I felt that based on these reasons I needed to give them a shot in my top 10 and it will be up to them to stay there by continuing to win!

PS.  I do not use the average ranking as my primary criteria but rather to make sure my watch list stays current.

[Swish3]

jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night.   I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...

So, you're saying Salisbury worked out all the kinks in their first game against CNU, then began firing on all cylinders out of the gate against Wesley and haven't looked back? 

Nance walked right by me after the CNU game and looked fine....perhaps the H-SC faithful are/were laying it on a little thick.

I had read your previous post(s) and knew you were not the ODAC culprit....I felt someone was giving the ODAC a little too much love.

R-MC at 6 just doesn't make sense....Bethany has a losing record, and you were recently downplaying E&H's fast start due to the same trend in previous years.  Besides, didn't R-MC lose by 24 to JHU?  If so, I think that's a monkey stomp, plus a field goal....I think I'm probably more knowledgeable about D3 than your average fan, but far from an expert.

Are wins against weak competition and a close loss to a good team better than a couple of quality wins and a close loss to a mediocre team?  I suppose it depends on who you ask....we could go back and forth forever, as we both think we're being reasonable.



 

[Swish3]

jknezek,

Salisbury practically beat Wesley, who's been in the top 3 of the South Region since about 1907.  I saw Nance get off the bus at CNU on crutches....it's a wonder he even played that night.   I saw the entire game, and I'll admit he was off a bit, but he definitely was not limping.  Yeah, H-SC had 8 turnovers, but CNU's defense had something to do w/some of those interceptions.

I totally agree about CNU being famous for losing to a team, or teams, they shouldn't, which has definitely hurt their playoff seeding.  However, UMHB and Wesley have owned the South Region for a while now, and I can't think of any other teams that have fared well against them for several years.  The ODAC has not won a playoff game since the glory days of BC, so I'm sure you would agree that being a high seed in the playoffs is a virtual loss, most of the time.

Speaking of the ODAC....did I see where a voter put R-MC at #6?  If so, I'd be a little concerned about their football knowledge.  Also, Bridgewater shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion at this point....someone seems to be giving the ODAC more love than they deserve, in my opinion.  Then again, that's what a lot of this poll is about....

I'm not defending CNU's loss to MU....it doesn't look real good right now, but I thought the voters were a little harsh in this poll and the Top 25.  I acknowledge that CNU has a lot to prove going forward, so things should sort themselves out.

El Swisharoo

There are some good points in here amd mostly I agree with it. But there is also a lot of "yeah, but I WANT CNU to look good, so here's how I see this..." which is completely natural, but not real helpful when comparing teams. For example, Salisbury did almost beat Wesley, Huntingdon had a very good run at Wesley as well. UMHB ate Wesley for breakfast. Yes, Wesley is a top South team, but this has been a less dominant year for Wesley than a few others. I have them at 2 in my poll, but I think the gap between Wesley and the 3/4/5 teams is closer this year than it has been in the past. I think the gap between 1 and 2 is pretty large. Salisbury did have to break in a new option backfield and it went poorly in game one. Since then it has been better. That's pretty common with option teams. It can't be ignored because it is inconvenient.

Nance was hurt. Again, it's not to say CNU didn't win the game or get the credit for winning the game. They moved up the polls pretty good after winning those two games as they should have, but it is also an extenuating circumstance that can't be ignored. Kind of like the drop off for CNU when their starting QB has been hurt the last couple years.

I don't have much comment on the ODAC. If you read my previous postings you'll know I don't have an ODAC team in my top 10 right now. Someone else has provided all the ODAC votes. I also agree being a low seed in the tourney is a tough matchup. Both the ODAC and USASC champs have gotten those lower seeds losing games they shouldn't. For example, CNU lost to Methodist on Saturday. That kind of history counts against any team trying to move up the poll. You can't join the top half of the poll by making mistakes and then getting blown out by the top half of the poll come playoff time because you made mistakes against teams that weren't in the poll. It's a bad argument.

Everyone doing this poll has pretty good football knowledge. R-MC at 6 is clearly not my pick, again, no ODAC ranked teams for me, but they are 3-1 with wins over Averett (bleh), Bethany (2-3, quality win over W&J), and E&H (3-1, who owns almost a double monkey stomp over Methodist, the team that just took out the Captains). So yeah, losing to number 2 JHU is a blemish, but other than that, R-MC has some credentials. Someone who knows this kind of information has a case to put them at 6, and that case involves not just football knowledge, but D3 knowledge. Again, it's not my pick, but it shows a lack of D3 knowledge to claim that this is a completely unreasonable vote.

CNU laid a turd. When you lay a turd, you are punished. I dropped CNU from 4 to 9 and I'm fine with it. You want to rank them higher that's fine. Just keep in mind that LaCollege at 9 only has a close loss to number 5 Huntingdon on the road, Ursinus hasn't laid a turd, neither has Millsaps. TLU is 3-0 and owns a win over Trinity, Huntingdon owns a win over La Col and a close loss at Wesley, TMC is undefeated, UMHB, JHU and Wesley are not in question.

So where does CNU belong? At 10 instead of H-SC? Fine, you could quibble about that and I obviously agree with you. But there is a pretty good case that CNU's turd is the worst result among the teams being discussed. In fact, most of the teams ahead of them have not laid a turd AT ALL. So is it really unreasonable to put teams that win games ahead of teams that lose games they shouldn't? I think most people without a vested interest in the Captains wouldn't find that very strange at all...

I was the voter responsible for the vote on Randy Mac.  I voted that way for the reasons jknezek stated in the quote above but also for their rankings in the four polls I use to help me with my picks.  When you average the rankings for Kickoff, LAZ, Born and Compughter.com, Randy Mac has the fifth highest average of all the South teams.  I felt that based on these reasons I needed to give them a shot in my top 10 and it will be up to them to stay there by continuing to win!

PS.  I do not use the average ranking as my primary criteria but rather to make sure my watch list stays current.

I guess you have your process/reasoning, roocru....I just disagree w/this particular outcome/conclusion.

[roocru]

Swish3, I have no problems with disagreement.  That is what makes the world go round.  Thankfully we have games left to see how it all turns out.   

[Swish3]

Agreed, my friend....

[jknezek]

So, you're saying Salisbury worked out all the kinks in their first game against CNU, then began firing on all cylinders out of the gate against Wesley and haven't looked back? 

Nance walked right by me after the CNU game and looked fine....perhaps the H-SC faithful are/were laying it on a little thick.

Pretty much every coach you talk to will tell you the team takes the biggest strides between the first and second game. I've seen it pretty regularly. When it comes to option teams, that rely so much on timing and placement, breaking in a new QB or set of backs can be painful. Is it a perfect reason? No, but it is a pretty commonly accepted one. Regardless, in D3 they can decide it on the field. I will be interested to see how the USASC plays out. I really thought it was Huntingdon and CNU's to win, now it looks like CNU have opened the door for the Hawks. Maryville or LaGrange may also still have a role to play.

[Swish3]

I'll be interested, too....thanks for the discussion.

[tigerfanalso]

I enjoyed the discussion relative to the polling in the South Region. I don't pay too much attention to those polls because typically the only way for an ODAC to get a bid is to win the conference. Very rare for an at-large bid to be awarded. I assume the same holds true for the USASC. Lets see how the season plays out. There is always hope for an at-large if certain things happen.

[Swish3]

The same definitely holds true for the USA South, most years....if Huntingdon should win the conference, CNU might have an outside shot at a Pool C bid IF they can win out and Salisbury and H-SC continue to win.

[Ralph Turner]

Week #6

Team	Points	Ballots	Conference	Key games
1)   UMHB	50	1,1,1,1,1	ASC	LaCollege 10/19
2)   JHU	43	2,2,2,3,3	Centennial	Ursinus 11/02
3)   Wesley	42	2,2,3,3,3	Independent	at ERFP #5 Rowan 10/19
4)   Huntingdon	30	4,4,5,5,7	USA South	Maryville 11/16
5T)  Texas Lutheran	24	4,6,6,7,8	SCAC	LaCollege 11/02
5T)  Millsaps	24	4,5,6,6,10	Southern AA	at B-SC 10/19
.	.	.
7)   Ursinus	20	4,7,8,8,8	Centennial	at JHU  11/02
8)   LaCollege	14	5,7,7,x,x	ASC	at UMHB 10/19; at TLU  11/02
9)   Hampden-Sydney	13	5,8,9,10,10	ODAC	at Randy Mac 11/16
10)  Randy Mac	5	6,x,x,x,x	ODAC	at Bridgewater 11/09, H-SC  11/16
.	.	.
RV)  CNU	4	9,9,x,x,x	USA South	Maryville 10/19
RV)   Thomas More	4	9,9,x,x,x	Pres AC	Must win out and have Waynesburg to win out
RV)  Maryville TN	2	10,10,x,x,x	USA South AC	at CNU 10/19; at Huntingdon 11/16

Corrections appreciated.