FB: Region 3 fan poll

[crufootball]

I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss.

So why did you vote for Trinity at all then, based on the votes you voted Belhaven #6 or 7 and they crushed Millsaps?

Dude, calm down.  It's WEEK ONE!!!  Should Trinity still be in the top 7 if UMHB beats them???  Should UMHB be there if Trinity beats them???  It will work itself out, give it a couple weeks.

I have asked 3 simple questions that you haven't really answered, you are the one answering in all caps so I am not sure I am the one that needs to calm down.

But to answer your questions, if UMHB beats Trinity then yes I could build a case that they are still one of the best 7 teams in the region unless it was a total blow out. As for UMHB if we look anything like we did against UWRF and go to 0-2 then I wouldn't blame anyone for keeping them out of the top 7.

I am just trying to figure out your logic, if you think that Trinity is the 5th best team in the region that is your right but I was hoping to hear how you got to that conclusion other than they lost which makes them worse than some other teams.

[BSCpanthers]

I have two things to say, first, I did not vote for BSC, second, I'm the one that put Trinity 5th.  I have no defense for the Trinity vote, other then I was purely going off this weekend, with no preconceived notions of where someone should be placed.  Obviously, the next couple of weeks will shake out the truth of where these teams really are.

So on that reasoning if St. Johns was in Region 3 would you have placed them at 4 and Trinity at 5, since they needed overtime to beat Trinity at home?

It was week one, wins are better then losses.  I'm sure the rankings will look different in week 4 then they look now.  Trinity has a brutal start to the season with 4 of their first 5 games being big games against good teams.

Obviously this is your vote but are you telling me a close loss to what D3football.com has to the #5 in the country is worse than any victory no matter the opponent?

Again, week 1.  Things will play themselves out over the next few weeks.  A victory over that #5 is way better than any loss to them. Sorry, week 1 you don't get quality losses.  Now come week 5 you can look back a count it as a quality loss.

So why did you vote for Trinity at all then, based on the votes you voted Belhaven #6 or 7 and they crushed Millsaps?

Dude, calm down.  It's WEEK ONE!!!  Should Trinity still be in the top 7 if UMHB beats them???  Should UMHB be there if Trinity beats them???  It will work itself out, give it a couple weeks.

I have asked 3 simple questions that you haven't really answered, you are the one answering in all caps so I am not sure I am the one that needs to calm down.

But to answer your questions, if UMHB beats Trinity then yes I could build a case that they are still one of the best 7 teams in the region unless it was a total blow out. As for UMHB if we look anything like we did against UWRF and go to 0-2 then I wouldn't blame anyone for keeping them out of the top 7.

I am just trying to figure out your logic, if you think that Trinity is the 5th best team in the region that is your right but I was hoping to hear how you got to that conclusion other than they lost which makes them worse than some other teams.

My caps were emphasizing that it's only week one.  I also stated in my original post that I had no defense for putting them there.  It's just where they landed when I did my poll.  In this same poll you have a team that received two second place votes, yet someone completely left them off their ballet.  It's week one, everyone has their opinion, this one was mine.  They lost the game, yes, to a very good team, but they lost.  This week, I felt the 4 teams above them had good wins, and it resulted in them being placed higher.  Again, it will work itself out, if I had a better reason, trust me, I'd be more than happy to give it to you, but that's it, that's all I got. 

[jknezek]

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 2

Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC

Rank			School			Points			Weekly Change			Voter Breakdown
1			Hardin-Simmons (2)			38			0			2 , 1 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1
2			Trinity (TX) (4)			36			0			1 , 5 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 3
3			R-MC			29			0			3 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 4 , 2
4			Berry			26			0			4 , 2 , 4 , 4 , 3 , 5
5			Howard Payne			16			0			7 , 3 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 4
T6			Belhaven			9			1			6 , 7 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 7
T6			UMHB			9			-1			5 , 5 , 5

Also Receiving Votes:
Maryville (2) , Rhodes (2) , Shenandoah (1)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88

[BSCpanthers]

Against popular opinion, I'm still the Trinity at 5th guy. My defense is Berry and Randolph Macon have two big wins and Howard Payne and Hardin Simmons both have quality wins. I feel those wins have been better then the OT loss and a win over a UMHB team that has not been the UMHB team over the past few years. Hopefully that answers the question before I get asked. 

[Pat Coleman]

Who has Randolph-Macon played?

[jknezek]

That is the question. Big wins over bad teams, in my opinion, are not better than close loses, especially on long road trips, or solid wins over excellent or good teams. But everyone has their own opinion. The point is to win on the field, so if a voter wants to go by wins/losses, regardless of opponent quality, that is a system. It's just not one I'd use or think is the best way to do it.

[BSCpanthers]

For a day I thought I had broke D3boards.com with me putting Trinity at 5 for the second week. 

You guys are enjoying picking apart my poll, yet I'm not the only one that out R-MC above Trinity.  So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me??? 

[Cowboy2]

For a day I thought I had broke D3boards.com with me putting Trinity at 5 for the second week. 

You guys are enjoying picking apart my poll, yet I'm not the only one that out R-MC above Trinity.  So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me???

BSCpanther- I understand your reasoning, but if record were the only thing that voters consider then, your team maybe wouldn't have received a pool C two years ago. They had quality loss at home to Trinity - That slingshotted them into the playoffs. Then Trinity had a quality loss at UMHB in round one. Then BSC got stomped in round two in the rain. Some Voters took that as "man Trinity isn't as good" and more so a generational UMHB team just had a bad game, when in reality looking back Trinity had a top tier defense that echoed the national statistics.

Because of those games last year, Trinity and BSC had a lot of buzz going into the season based on the previous year close games of who played who. After Trinity had another magical ending vs BSC to win the game on a finger tip catch, BSC was still getting votes based on two very quality losses to them and Huntingdon, and would have had the resume to possibly grab another pool C had they not finished 7-3.

The point is, voters at this point in the season look at who played who and margins etc because there is so little data to go by this early on. No one is arguing that a loss is a loss, it's more so the overall picture on quality of game played. Sometimes a W can help/hurt and sometimes a L can help or hurt rankings.

Yes teams first and foremost want to fill a 10 game schedule vs divisional opponents, but if they can grab a game vs a historically great program in UWW, Trinity, SJU and UMHB I understand why they would do it. It helps programs evaluate where they are prior to conference play and see if what areas they need to focus on. After being on the other end, going 9-1 with only loss to UMHB, I understand why teams like HSU try to get a quality program to help their rank and resume. Wheaton, John Carrol, UWL, and Bethel have had to deal with this for a while now. Usually one of them gets in the playoffs because of a quality loss.

[Ron Boerger]

For a day I thought I had broke D3boards.com with me putting Trinity at 5 for the second week. 

You guys are enjoying picking apart my poll, yet I'm not the only one that out R-MC above Trinity.  So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me???

Cherry-picking at its finest; the *one* voter that does this besides you has Trinity at 3.  The issue is that nobody, and I mean nobody who knows Division III football would rate Trinity the fifth-best team in this region, and that and not the position relative to R-MC is why absolutely zero people agree with you. 

[Pat Coleman]

So how can I be so far off when someone else agrees with me???

Nobody else has four Region 3 teams ahead of Trinity.

[BSCpanthers]

You guys are fun.     Y'all are so adamant that my poll is ridiculous because I put Trinity 5th, instead of 2nd or 3rd.  You guys think it's ok for someone else to have them 3rd, but 5th is ridiculous.  It's literally 2 spots difference, it's not like I left them out, I just have them 2 or 3 spots further down the poll.  Also, why is it so important to you guys that I have them where I do???  Isn't this why we do the poll, to see how other people gauge the teams?  If we all agreed, it'd be boring as hell and none of these conversation would have existed.  Which the polls are here to spark conversation about teams.  It's ok for us to have different opinions, we don't have to agree to still enjoy the season together.  Time will tell if I am right or wrong, if I'm wrong they will climb up the polls into the spot you guys already have them, if I am right, they should fall to a spot closer to where I currently have them.  Let the season play out, it will take care of itself(for the most part).  I will be at the game Saturday, I'm looking forward to seeing that 5th ranked team come to the Hilltop, hopefully we can finally get over that hump and get the win against them. 

If any Trinity fans are coming, come have a Bloody Mary or Mimosa on me.  It's an early kick, 11am, so have to have breakfast drinks.   

[D3Navy]

BSCpanther - while I don't agree with your rankings, I'm happy to see the back and forth and appreciate your interaction.  As a Trinity fan and alum, I'm definitely looking at things through a different lens.  Gotta be honest, I'm still not convinced the Tigers are as strong as they are ranked.  They have real potential to contend, but I don't think they have a broad enough offensive playbook, and they lack the killer instinct after gaining a lead.  I'd like to see the coaches keep them off the leash for the entire game.

Gonna be watching the stream on Saturday.  Have a great time and I look forward to hearing from you afterwards.

[BSCpanthers]

BSCpanther - while I don't agree with your rankings, I'm happy to see the back and forth and appreciate your interaction.  As a Trinity fan and alum, I'm definitely looking at things through a different lens.  Gotta be honest, I'm still not convinced the Tigers are as strong as they are ranked.  They have real potential to contend, but I don't think they have a broad enough offensive playbook, and they lack the killer instinct after gaining a lead.  I'd like to see the coaches keep them off the leash for the entire game.

Gonna be watching the stream on Saturday.  Have a great time and I look forward to hearing from you afterwards.

We haven't had a killer instinct in over a season.  So many games last season we'd jump out to a quick lead and then just sit on it without actually putting the team away.  And if you think your offensive playbook has been thin, wait until you see ours.  Our offense has not been good, at all, this season.  When HC White left, our OC was promoted to HC and we didn't hire a new OC, so he's been doing both.  As long as Tucker is vertical, your offense will be successful, I'm not sure we have that QB. 

I have also enjoyed the banter, makes the week go by faster to get us to another football Saturday. 

[jknezek]

If any Trinity fans are coming, come have a Bloody Mary or Mimosa on me.  It's an early kick, 11am, so have to have breakfast drinks.   

I may run over Saturday to catch the game. Depends what else I have to do but it's not that common that the team I think might be the best in the region comes to town. I'll let you know if I'm going to make it. Be fun to take in a game at BSC again. Haven't been in years since they wanted to charge me to park my motorhome behind the end zone.

[BSCpanthers]

If any Trinity fans are coming, come have a Bloody Mary or Mimosa on me.  It's an early kick, 11am, so have to have breakfast drinks.   

I may run over Saturday to catch the game. Depends what else I have to do but it's not that common that the team I think might be the best in the region comes to town. I'll let you know if I'm going to make it. Be fun to take in a game at BSC again. Haven't been in years since they wanted to charge me to park my motorhome behind the end zone.

Let me know, we are on the hillside and don't even go into the stadium.  I like my view better.  You're more then welcome to stop by and have some refreshments. 

Edit: kickoff is at 11am, so get there early.