WBB: American Rivers Conference

[keith45]

It may have just been a space and which is easier to do first type of question...if its all getting done, doesnt realy matter which gets done first..the new gym will be nice, the set up will be a bit like Clarke's gym (stadium seating, etc)..and the football building will be more than just for football, weightrooms, juice bar, etc, so it benefits the whole school, not just one team

[doolittledog]

Speaking of the new Wellness center.  UD's website says that stadium demolition and construction is supposed to start April 11th.  But looking at the webcam it doesn't look like much demolition or construction is going on.

Anybody out there have in info about this???

[Old Pro]

Keith's hopeful take on the facilities is nice, but doolittledog's description rings more true. A donor who cannot be told no. Internal disputes could also be holding up construction.

If the gussied up Stolz resembles Clarke, but if Clarke now has scholarships in NAIA; and if Loras has a beautiful new facility--is it $35 million?--; and if most other teams in IIAC and the tri-state area have much better facilities; and if UD has the lowest financial aid; that's a bad place for UD for recruiting for basketball of either gender. Time will tell.

[doolittledog]

Old Pro, I think my position comes closer to Keith's position. 

The Chlapaty family is donating this money for the Wellness center but they have also been involved in the whole plan for the University.  Since 1998 UD has built the Tech center, new library, new teaching and administative building, new lighted soccer field, new student housing,  the Goldthorpe addition.  This Wellness center will not just benefit the football program but also the basketball teams, the wrestling team and also the track team.  Future plans for UD include additional residential facilities, and two other projects I can't think of right now. 

You also need to remember that Loras renovated the Rock Bowl before they went on to do their basketball arena.  Wartburg renovated their football field long before they started their Wellness Center and that is a collaberation with the city of Waverly.  Coe is rehabing their football field and basketball facility but not building new ones.  Central refurbished their basketball court but didn't build a new one and then spent a lot more money on redoing their football field. 

You made good points earlier that Huffman had a lot on his plate between coaching two sports, teaching, being involved in a masters program and not having much of a budget to work with.  Other UD coaches had similar results and given more time to right their ships, I just wouldn't put your blame on the Chlapaty's, their Wellness center is just one piece of the puzzle and they are involved with the whole revitalization of UD beyond just the Wellness center. 

[Old Pro]

Thank you, doolittledog, for the adult conversation. You certainly know more than most about the details of the donors at UD, and have a strong knowledge of the arenas in the area. I would not quarrel with any of your facts, except to suggest that there may have been administrative efforts to include basketball in the new facility, efforts that were rebuffed. Alas.

I'm sure we all wish the new fellow the best, but the truth is that success in basketball at UD, and especially the women's game (the purest form of basketball!) will mostly depend on decisions made in offices other than the coach's. Will this coach be given a full staff (by the standards of other teams in the league? by the standards even of the men's team?) Will UD begin to comply with Title IX? How will the financial aid hurdle be overcome? And for both men and women, how will coaches sell the minimal facilities?

Since 75% of D III success is in recruiting, these remain critical questions that will handicap any coach, no matter how good.

Speaking of good, let's give Huffman his due. Not only did he have too much on his plate with too little help, but he had major successes that should not be forgotten. He had the 1st winning season in 16 years (2003-04); led to a variety of UD team and individual records--I've heard that it's 45 records tied or broken; has the highest average wins per season of any women's bball coach at UD; a variety of team and individual achievements in the NCAA, including top 20 in several 3-point and free throw categories; 11 IIAC All-Academic selections and 6 all IIAC selections. As a coach's coach, he won respect from his peers because despite inferior personnel, he always tested, often surprised, and sometimes beat them. And a key measure is the number of his former assistants and players who are already college coaches in their 20's (with his approach and playbooks).

Pretty good, in retrospect.

[doolittledog]

Yes, the success of the new coach will certainly help if that person has backing from the administration.  Backing such as given a proper staff and budget.  Finantial aid is certainly part of that equation as well. 

I hope Huffman does well in whatever he ends up doing. 

[Illinihoops4]

Truth of the matter is, there are very few schools that comply fully with Title IX. It's a sad, but true fact.
My question for you Old Pro is how close are you to the school? I'm curious because of your statement about poor financial aid packages. UD has never given the best packages, but after doing some research- UD is still one of the cheapest schools as they hover around that $26K spot. Loras is at about 30 and Coe, Cornell, and Simpson are more expensive in terms of IIAC schools. Not only is UD the cheapest before FA, but they also have the loosest admission policies in terms of ACT scores etc. I can't include Clarke in the mix because UD has never really truly competed for the same type of athlete and they are now NAIA- which in terms of money is a unique situation. Plus the fact that they don't have the "money-maker" football on campus plays a role as well. UW-Platteville is also in a league of it's own. There's not a large draw of WI kids to Iowa because they can attend a state school for so much less.
There are an awful lot of kids from Florida attending UD these days- for football mostly, but there's been a rise on the women's side- more so in track. Are you saying that FA packages are poor in general or they favor football?
In terms of a staff, Dana Harrold is full-time- which is something that many DIII schools still do not have. It was policy that they could have a GA as well, but perhaps that has changed. Robbie Sieverding was viewed as full-time men's assistant, while Bierman(I know he's gone now) was the GA.  It's been a plus they they gave softball to someone who could devote more time to it. It's been rare that you find a head coach without other coaching duties or teaching duties, but it was a good sign when they split the softball/basketball position. Perhaps more help in terms of a staff is on the way.

Just my thoughts. I wish the best for UD and for Huffman in whatever challenge he takes on next.

[Old Pro]

Thanks Ihoops4 for your note.

Clearly no single figure gives you the value of a financial aid award. Lower tuition matched with much lower financial aid costs a family more than higher tuition matched with better financial aid. Since those figures are confidential, the best indicator is recruited athletes who do not come because of poor financial aid.

You raise a really interesting question about the Florida pipeline, especially for football players. The financing of all that, including big travel costs for recruiting, is a real mystery, given the low academic achievement of too many of them. When you compare that with the relatively high academic achievement of female basketball recruits who get (apparently) much smaller awards, real questions emerge. Those close to UD might have fun asking such questions. And that does not get us to talking about Belleus.

Yes, recruiting top players from Wisconsin is a real challenge. 'Twill be interesting to see if the new guy can overcome that.

Staffing needs to be compared with other teams on campus first, and that looks bad for women's basketball. When you consider that Huffman was hired in a national search to do basketball (and golf), and that then the national search for a full-time softball coach was abandoned and he was asked to do both full-time jobs, but at one salary and with inadequate staff, and then asked to teach regularly, you have to wonder how anyone could survive that, let alone produce top results. He did make a terrible program respectable, and leaves a nice core of Frosh to replace the painfully under-performing seniors, so the successor has a solid base to work from. Here's wishing the best to all.

[Illinihoops4]

It's official per UW-Stout's website. Mark Knoll has been named the Spartan's new leader. Best of luck to him.

[keith45]

Thanks Ihoops4 for your note.


You raise a really interesting question about the Florida pipeline, especially for football players. The financing of all that, including big travel costs for recruiting, is a real mystery, given the low academic achievement of too many of them. When you compare that with the relatively high academic achievement of female basketball recruits who get (apparently) much smaller awards, real questions emerge. Those close to UD might have fun asking such questions. And that does not get us to talking about Belleus.

Yes, recruiting top players from Wisconsin is a real challenge. 'Twill be interesting to see if the new guy can overcome that.

Do you have any stats of the low academic acheivement of the FLA football players? I'm not sure if I agree with that, but am open if you have information to back it up. I'm not sure how many administrattions would allow a coach to bring in tons and tons of out of state players who dont succeed academically, for a program that isnt a top performing program.
Also, dont assume that every player from Florida had a home visit..I came from Maryland to UD with no visits from a coach!

[keith45]

It's official per UW-Stout's website. Mark Knoll has been named the Spartan's new leader. Best of luck to him.

As was rumored for weeks...heis a hell of a recruiter, and has great conections in Wisconsin...coming from a top program in one of the best conferences, looks like a good fit. I know there were some alumni very interested in the role who didnt even get interviewed, so it looks like Knoll was their man from day one.
Good luck to him!

[Old Pro]

Quote from Keith45 on May 1

[Do you have any stats of the low academic acheivement of the FLA football players? I'm not sure if I agree with that, but am open if you have information to back it up. I'm not sure how many administrattions would allow a coach to bring in tons and tons of out of state players who dont succeed academically, for a program that isnt a top performing program.
Also, dont assume that every player from Florida had a home visit..I came from Maryland to UD with no visits from a coach.]

Those stats would surely be closely held. I know only the persistent rumors about papers written for the athletes by female students, sometimes themselves athletes, while the males improve their video game skills (no gender bias intended--that's just what is said).

What is broadly visible and well-known is that a well-publicized football player left a Big Ten school for academic reasons, then was accepted at a D3 school where the athletes are expected to have some skills, especially as seniors. The rumors say he arrived with a GPA well below 2.0, somehow was made eligible, and played while failing his UD courses. If, as rumored, he also drove around Dubuque in an Escalade, the questions are obvious.

I did not mean to suggest that every footbal player from Florida received a home visit, but to point to the huge expense of sending most of the staff to Florida to recruit. Then there was the trip to Germany! How would women's basketball arrange that?

Yes, it is a quick hire for Knoll (Noll?) Whatever is behind that, he looks like a good choice, given the experience and the recruiting connections. No doubt he'll find recruiting for UD more challenging than for UW-Stout, for the reasons I offered earlier, but local/regional connections are a huge advantage. Time will tell.

[doolittledog]

The football player you are talking about played at a junior college before playing at Iowa in 2004.  So he would have had to had a 2.0 while playing at Iowa.  Flunked out after his 1 semester there and didn't play at UD untill 2006.  So he theoretically had a whole year to get his grades back up to a 2.0  He sat out a year of playing time so he spent SOME time getting the grades back up.  I would say you are probably correct that once he was eligible to play again he for the most part gave up on the class work. 

UD probably isn't the only place players have girlfriends or others to write papers for them.  It isn't right and I would hope that a part of recruiting would be finding players that wouldn't resort to that kind of behavior.  Again, hopefully the new coach gets some support from the administration, something apparently the old coach didn't.  Hopefully he can get some recruiting success. 

[BVHawk]

It appears that UD landed a solid coach.  I don't see him stealing too many recruits away from UW-Stout, but regardless, he should have some in's in WI.

[Rico 21]

As a Bluedevil booster, you guys are getting a first class individual in Mark Noll.  I was sorry to see he was leaving Stout, but very pleased for him to get the chance to be the number one guy.

With his ties to AAU he'll bring some solid recruits to your program.  Assuming he runs the same type of offense get ready to watch some exciting, fast paced ball!

Best wishes to all!