TOP 25

[HSC85]

Why would someone rank Courtland State over Delaware Valley?  Delaware Valley has beaten Kean and their only loss was to Wesley.  Courtland State just got beat by two touchdowns by Kean.  It just seems when a team that is already in the poll loses the votes are still coming for them.  I even saw where a team that is 1-3 still got a vote.

[Ralph Turner]

Why would someone rank Courtland State over Delaware Valley?  Delaware Valley has beaten Kean and their only loss was to Wesley.  Courtland State just got beat by two touchdowns by Kean.  It just seems when a team that is already in the poll loses the votes are still coming for them.  I even saw where a team that is 1-3 still got a vote.

I would love to see 4-0 HSC and 1-3 HSU play on a neutral field...    

[HSC85]

Mr. Turner,

I am not even talking about Hampden-Sydney.  I feel they are getting too many votes now and I have seen all of their games.  They have plenty of time to earn their way into the poll or out of the poll.  I am talking about the D3 top 25 poll.  I am just trying to understand the logic of ranking Courtland State over Delaware Valley and other votes that do not seem to be backed up by results on the field.

[Ralph Turner]

Mr. Turner,

I am not even talking about Hampden-Sydney.  I feel they are getting too many votes now and I have seen all of their games.  They have plenty of time to earn their way into the poll or out of the poll.  I am talking about the D3 top 25 poll.  I am just trying to understand the logic of ranking Courtland State over Delaware Valley and other votes that do not seem to be backed up by results on the field.

Sorry...

I was bringing the South Region Fan Poll discussions onto this board.

You have a good point.  I think that most South Region Fans realize that the stars are not aligned for HSU this season.  HSU probably finishes 6-4.

+1!   

[HSC85]

No problem.  All of the polls are for discussion purposes only anyway.  I am glad to have the opportunity to follow D3 football this way.

[PA_wesleyfan]

HSC85

You have to remember that the coaches are voting for 1-25 only and that the teams in the other recieving votes are actually top 25 votes but their totals aren't as high

[Mr. Ypsi]

HSC85

You have to remember that the coaches are voting for 1-25 only and that the teams in the other recieving votes are actually top 25 votes but their totals aren't as high

And YOU need to remember that only a minority of d3football.com voters are coaches!  Which to me is good - any coach who knows diddly-squat during the season about any team he won't be facing is not doing the job he's paid to do!

While former coaches may be among the ideal voters, current coaches voting has always struck me as weird.

[golden_dome]

A few notes on Mississippi College and their chances of moving into the top 25 this week. There are a lot of good teams out there and plenty not ranked, but MC is right there.

They are 4-1 and 3-0 in the ASC, arguably one of the nation's toughest conferences. Their only loss was to NAIA #6 Cumberlands who has won 14 straight regular season games. Wins over Millsaps and Hardin-Simmons. Millsaps could still win the SCAC, and HSU is still a good win. HSU has had plenty of injuries, but you don't go from preseason #5 to a bad team that fast. HSU's 23-7 loss to #3 UMHB this weekend was competitive.

MC is led by senior quarterback Adam Shaffer who has thrown 16 touchdowns and just one interception. Junior tailback Steven Knight leads the ASC in total rushing yards with 429 and is second with five rushing touchdowns.

I think the ASC is deserving of two ranked teams, but like I said, I realize there are a lot of good teams out there. It's a tough job for voters to separate the top 25 teams.

We'll find out how good MC is in two weeks when they host #3 UMHB, but I thought I'd drop them a mention on here.

[HSC85]

No reflection on Mississippi College, but didn't all of the Top 25 teams that played win this week ?

[Ron Boerger]

No reflection on Mississippi College, but didn't all of the Top 25 teams that played win this week ?

Yep (see front page).  The biggest upset this week may have been DePauw handling Millsaps, neither of which were in the top 25.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Deep in the ORV's (so of no real importance, but curious nonetheless), undefeated IWU beat previously undefeated Carthage, 42-16, and (understandably) gained 13 points to 18 total.  But Carthage ROSE 15 points, from 2 to 17!  Did some voters go dyslexic on the score??!

[Ralph Turner]

Deep in the ORV's (so of no real importance, but curious nonetheless), undefeated IWU beat previously undefeated Carthage, 42-16, and (understandably) gained 13 points to 18 total.  But Carthage ROSE 15 points, from 2 to 17!  Did some voters go dyslexic on the score??!

Naw...CCIW bias!           

[K-Mack]

Mr. Turner,

I am not even talking about Hampden-Sydney.  I feel they are getting too many votes now and I have seen all of their games.  They have plenty of time to earn their way into the poll or out of the poll.  I am talking about the D3 top 25 poll.  I am just trying to understand the logic of ranking Courtland State over Delaware Valley and other votes that do not seem to be backed up by results on the field.

My best guess on that is that many voters maybe start with a team ranked in a certain spot and feel that a loss is maybe only "worth" five or 10 spots. So if Willamette and Cortland were top 10 teams at the start of the year, certainly one loss can't knock them all the way out of the top 25 ... Or can it? Cortland lost to unranked Kean and the strength of the wins against Morrisville, Rowan and Buff State are debateable; How is 3-1 Kean's loss to Del Val plus wins over TCNJ, W. Conn. and Cortland make them less worthy of a top 25 vote than 3-1 Cortland?

I no longer have Cortland ranked and can't understand it either. Even though they started up high for me, I have since found teams more worthy of the votes, based on what we've seen to date. That can change in a hurry, of course.

See the following post which kind of addresses my theory on it a little more.

I can't bring myself to vote for North Central (No. 14) over Ohio Northern either because of their h2h result, so everything ONU does is a reflection on No. Central ... and if they go on to beat Wheaton later in the year, we'll have a real conundrum on our hands.

I'll hone these theories for ATN this week.

[K-Mack]

cc'ed from the Around the Nation thread ... I think it's more germane to the discussion here.

I do not understand why Case Western Reserve is ranked so high.... They have an EASY schedule, and their wins have not been that impressive. Wabash should be ranked higher than Case.... especially because Wabash has a tougher schedule (because of Wittenberg) and the fact that Wabash has eliminated Case from the playoffs for the past 2 years... just a thought

WAF!

To be fair, Wabash hasn't played anybody yet either.  Case has the fish stringer game against Wooster next weekend and Wabash gets Wittenberg the week after.  We're all excited, WF.  Be patient, friend...It'll sort itself out. 

Yes, I agree... We have not played anyone either. I just believe we are the better team.... guess we'll have to knock them out for the 3rd year in a row!

WAF!

Well since you're posting here and not on Top 25, I assume you're asking me ... I have the two pinned together in the top 25 pretty much since the start of the season, with Wabash one spot ahead. I think they were 14/15 this week ... I guess not all that far from 10/11.

Honestly I don't think either of you play the caliber of opponents of a lot of the teams in the top 10, and even if you go unbeaten, I'm going to have a hard time moving you up higher than teams with similar records but playing against better competition.

... If I had to guess why so high, I think a lot of these early rankings seem to be a reaction to where teams start off the season, and some kind of belief that you can't drop a team from 10th to out of the poll on a single loss. I don't really function that way, I try to re-evaluate everything as often as I can.

So if Case starts the season, say, 18th, and then eight teams ahead of them lose a game in the first five weeks, does that automatically make Case the 10th best team in the country? That's the question we have to ask ourselves.

To be quite honest, there are cases like Bethel at 2-2 with a last-second loss to No. 4 Wheaton and a two-point loss to No. 6 St. John's where Case and Wabash and Washington & Jefferson haven't played (and won't play) one team that good. Ohio Northern is 2-2 with losses to No. 1 Mount Union and No. 13 Otterbein (I think). Millsaps' losses are by a hair to Mississippi College and DePauw.

Winning games is the ultimate goal, but strength of schedule is a difficult thing to evaluate, and it's important to keep in mind when comparing teams. On one hand you can only play the teams you schedule. But on the other, I'm not necessarily going to reward a team for being 4-0 against a much-less challenging schedule than someone else is 3-1 against.

And then there's this Pat-ism ... it's not who you lost to, it's who you beat.

I could go on ...

[Mr. Ypsi]

Deep in the ORV's (so of no real importance, but curious nonetheless), undefeated IWU beat previously undefeated Carthage, 42-16, and (understandably) gained 13 points to 18 total.  But Carthage ROSE 15 points, from 2 to 17!  Did some voters go dyslexic on the score??!

Naw...CCIW bias!           

You're channeling your basketball mode!

The heck with the CCIW - I'm figuring maybe those Carthage votes belong to IWU!