TOP 25

[Goal Line Stand]

I think the CCIW has 3 top 15 teams in Wheaton, IWU and NCC. Each of these teams has had some injury issues which has kept them from separating themselves from the CCIW pack. IWU didn't have their QB for 3 games including their loss, NCC is now without their 4 captains and best players (and have had a host of other injuries )and Wheaton has had 6 starters on offense and 4 starters on defense miss at least 1 game.

The voters are suppose to take injuries into consideration now when ranking the Top 25 ?   With only two games left in the season, plenty of teams are dealing with injuries. It is the nature of the sport.    

[SaintsFAN]

What does Huntingdon have to do to crack even one vote in the top 25 list, sporting a 7-1 record with wins over the likes of Millsaps, Louisiana College, and the bitter rival Lagrange (who erased all playoff hopes last year last week of the season).  Depauw receives votes and sits at 33 while they are ranked underneath HC in the South Rankings?? (HC = 8 in South, Depauw = 9, Dickinson = 10).  Number one ranked offense in the nation?? Hello!!! Anybody?? Not trying to say they are number one, just want to see some votes

Huntingdon is still on everyone's radar at about #27 - #35.

LaGrange got very little love last year, and then was beaten easily in the playoffs.

The national voters don't have a "conference" perspective that helps "slot" teams.

Huntingdon's program is just "too new".


The South Region Fan Poll is just 5 fans (amateurs) filling out a ballot after the weekend's games.

LaGrange seems to be down this year, and Louisiana College is just another (middle-of-the-road) good ASC team.

Millsaps is down this year.

The road loss to UW-Oshkosh was the "first impression" of this year's team, and it seems to have stuck.

If Huntingdon has a strong first round showing or wins a first round game then they might be ranked in the final Top 25.

Don't take it personally.  The Top 25 seems to lag team performance rather than be a predictor of next week's game.  IMHO, if you had beaten UWO, then you would have been in the poll several weeks ago.

Well said +K

I will also say that I hope they aren't "playing for a ranking".... that could leave a team ripe for an upset, IMO

Playoffs in D3 take the stress away from making sure the rankings are exactly right.  Ours is settled on the field and not using a computer.

[usee]

I think the CCIW has 3 top 15 teams in Wheaton, IWU and NCC. Each of these teams has had some injury issues which has kept them from separating themselves from the CCIW pack. IWU didn't have their QB for 3 games including their loss, NCC is now without their 4 captains and best players (and have had a host of other injuries )and Wheaton has had 6 starters on offense and 4 starters on defense miss at least 1 game.

The voters are suppose to take injuries into consideration now when ranking the Top 25 ?    With only two games left in the season, plenty of teams are dealing with injuries. It is the nature of the sport.   

Sorry, I should clarify my post--I was explaining the injuries as a reason none of these 3 teams have separated themselves in the CCIW race. The rankings are what they are and I believe each team is appropriately slotted (although its hard to say IWU should be below a team they just beat). It's my opinion that these 3 teams are talented enough to be in the top 15. I also have seen Bethel play and I think they are definitely a top 25 team (I'll tell you they are a good qb away from being a top 10 team in my opinion).

[Goal Line Stand]

I think the CCIW has 3 top 15 teams in Wheaton, IWU and NCC. Each of these teams has had some injury issues which has kept them from separating themselves from the CCIW pack. IWU didn't have their QB for 3 games including their loss, NCC is now without their 4 captains and best players (and have had a host of other injuries )and Wheaton has had 6 starters on offense and 4 starters on defense miss at least 1 game.

The voters are suppose to take injuries into consideration now when ranking the Top 25 ?    With only two games left in the season, plenty of teams are dealing with injuries. It is the nature of the sport.   

Sorry, I should clarify my post--I was explaining the injuries as a reason none of these 3 teams have separated themselves in the CCIW race. The rankings are what they are and I believe each team is appropriately slotted (although its hard to say IWU should be below a team they just beat). It's my opinion that these 3 teams are talented enough to be in the top 15. I also have seen Bethel play and I think they are definitely a top 25 team (I'll tell you they are a good qb away from being a top 10 team in my opinion).

Oh, I see.  That's better. 

[hchawks]

Despite all of that, I am still curious as to why Huntingdon has yet to receive one single vote.  OW% is top 20 in the nation, undefeated in south region play.  I understand being an independent team does not help us, but even knowing that we are on the radar would somewhat be a satisfaction so far for this season.

Being under the radar is not necessarily a bad thing.  Could come out of nowhere and make a name for ourselves this postseason (assuming the Pool B bid is ours).

Matchup against BSC this Saturday will be the determining factor

teamline.com      team code 2588 if you would like to listen in, pregame starts at 1:10 CST

[TC]

Despite all of that, I am still curious as to why Huntingdon has yet to receive one single vote.  OW% is top 20 in the nation, undefeated in south region play.  I understand being an independent team does not help us, but even knowing that we are on the radar would somewhat be a satisfaction so far for this season.

Being under the radar is not necessarily a bad thing.  Could come out of nowhere and make a name for ourselves this postseason (assuming the Pool B bid is ours).

It could have something to do with losing by 3 scores to the best team they've played this year, a team that happens to be 4-4/2-3 right now.

If you're arguing that 6 WIAC teams should also be receiving consideration as Top 25 teams, I might agree with you--but I don't think you're saying that.  Once Huntingdon starts beating teams like UW-Oshkosh, I'd imagine they'll start getting (and deserving) Top 25 consideration.  And, as you point out, they'll likely get the chance to do that this year in the playoffs, which is pretty sweet.

[redswarm81]

No. 13 Capital's 6-2 record includes a one point loss to No. 15 Otterbein, currently sporting a 7-1 record, with its 1 loss coming this past Saturday at the hands of 3-5 Marietta.   Capital's other loss is to the 1985 Chicago Bears Mount Union.  If we assume that Otterbein will lose to Mount Union, does a 2 loss Otterbein deserve to be ranked lower than 2 loss Capital, a team Otterbein beat head to head?

Otterbein is down to their 3rd string QB, but should NEVER had lost to Marietta.  ONU lost early to MUC and OTT, and has a quality win against NCC.  ONU is probably playing the best towards the end of the season.  If MUC beats OTT, then IMO ONU will be the best of the 2 loss teams in the OAC.

I agree with everything above except that the 2nd best OAC team is whichever one wins the ONU at Capital showdown this weekend.

So if Capital beats ONU and finishes 8-2, while Otterbein loses to Mount Union and finishes 8-2, then 8-2 Capital should be ranked ahead of 8-2 Otterbein, who beat Capital head to head?

[Mr. Ypsi]

No. 13 Capital's 6-2 record includes a one point loss to No. 15 Otterbein, currently sporting a 7-1 record, with its 1 loss coming this past Saturday at the hands of 3-5 Marietta.   Capital's other loss is to the 1985 Chicago Bears Mount Union.  If we assume that Otterbein will lose to Mount Union, does a 2 loss Otterbein deserve to be ranked lower than 2 loss Capital, a team Otterbein beat head to head?

Otterbein is down to their 3rd string QB, but should NEVER had lost to Marietta.  ONU lost early to MUC and OTT, and has a quality win against NCC.  ONU is probably playing the best towards the end of the season.  If MUC beats OTT, then IMO ONU will be the best of the 2 loss teams in the OAC.

I agree with everything above except that the 2nd best OAC team is whichever one wins the ONU at Capital showdown this weekend.

So if Capital beats ONU and finishes 8-2, while Otterbein loses to Mount Union and finishes 8-2, then 8-2 Capital should be ranked ahead of 8-2 Otterbein, who beat Capital head to head?

Yes.  H-to-h is obviously important, but cannot be the one single overriding factor.  Cap did not lose to Etta, and I doubt Ott will lead MUC in the 4th quarter.

Or were you suggesting that Etta should be ranked above Ott?

[redswarm81]

No. 13 Capital's 6-2 record includes a one point loss to No. 15 Otterbein, currently sporting a 7-1 record, with its 1 loss coming this past Saturday at the hands of 3-5 Marietta.   Capital's other loss is to the 1985 Chicago Bears Mount Union.  If we assume that Otterbein will lose to Mount Union, does a 2 loss Otterbein deserve to be ranked lower than 2 loss Capital, a team Otterbein beat head to head?

Otterbein is down to their 3rd string QB, but should NEVER had lost to Marietta.  ONU lost early to MUC and OTT, and has a quality win against NCC.  ONU is probably playing the best towards the end of the season.  If MUC beats OTT, then IMO ONU will be the best of the 2 loss teams in the OAC.

I agree with everything above except that the 2nd best OAC team is whichever one wins the ONU at Capital showdown this weekend.

So if Capital beats ONU and finishes 8-2, while Otterbein loses to Mount Union and finishes 8-2, then 8-2 Capital should be ranked ahead of 8-2 Otterbein, who beat Capital head to head?

Yes.  H-to-h is obviously important, but cannot be the one single overriding factor.  Cap did not lose to Etta, and I doubt Ott will lead MUC in the 4th quarter.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for people--even highly educated academics--to understand.

One single overriding factor?  They have the same record, in the same conference.  They have a common loss, and they each lost to one other team besides.  Those are numerous factors.  Based on those numerous factors, the two teams compare pretty darned closely.  Now, how can we determine which team deserves to be ranked higher than the other?  Hmmm,  . . .   What to do, what to do?

Oh, hey, whattaya know?  Otterbein beat Capital head to head. 

Or were you suggesting that Etta should be ranked above Ott?

Does Marietta have an 8-2 record in your hypothetical?  Or do they have the 3-7 record that they're likely to have in real life?  I would never suggest that a 3-7 team deserved to be ranked ahead of an 8-2 team (unless, maybe if the 3-7 team beat the 8-2 team twice).

[Mr. Ypsi]

redswarm,

I'd be more open to your argument (despite the 'highly educated academics' slur ) if Ott had beaten Cap in a romp.  They won by ONE with a TD with 38 seconds left.!

THAT h-to-h doesn't carry a whole bunch of weight to me.

[smedindy]

Capital beat Marietta by 24.

Otterbein beat Capital by 1.

Marietta beat Otterbein by 3.

What to do? What to do?

OH! I know! Consider the rest of their resume?

[redswarm81]

redswarm,

I'd be more open to your argument (despite the 'highly educated academics' slur ) if Ott had beaten Cap in a romp.  They won by ONE with a TD with 38 seconds left.!

THAT h-to-h doesn't carry a whole bunch of weight to me.

Aw heck, lighten up, Doc.  Sheesh, you've slurred my speeches worse than that.  (get it? ) There's nothing wrong with being a highly educated academic.  In fact, it's rather impressive.

Identical records in the same conference, Otterbein has a head to head win that counts for nothing.  Why do the teams play each other, if their head to head results are discounted so heavily?

I don't understand why so many people are so quick to overlook head to head.  We had this discussion quite a bit on the East Region Fan Poll page, when many seemed to be arguing that Kean didn't really beat Cortland St.  By two touchdowns.

[redswarm81]

Capital beat Marietta by 24.

Otterbein beat Capital by 1.

Marietta beat Otterbein by 3.

What to do? What to do?

OH! I know! Consider the rest of their resume?

You must have missed the part about the two teams (Otterbein and Capital) having identical records in the same conference.  That's kind of like considering their resumes, isn't it?

When you're comparing one team against one other team, how can head to head result between those teams be so insignificant?

I don't get it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

rs81,

H-to-h IS a big deal IF it is clear cut.  To me, at least, winning by ONE in the last 38 seconds is essentially a tie IF there is other evidence.  Results against Marietta constitutes other evidence.  Results against MUC constitutes other evidence - IF OTT is still in the game in the 4th quarter, I'll change my vote, but I suspect they will be roadkill by halftime.  We'll see in a few days.

[redswarm81]

rs81,

H-to-h IS a big deal IF it is clear cut.  To me, at least, winning by ONE in the last 38 seconds is essentially a tie IF there is other evidence.  Results against Marietta constitutes other evidence.  Results against MUC constitutes other evidence - IF OTT is still in the game in the 4th quarter, I'll change my vote, but I suspect they will be roadkill by halftime.  We'll see in a few days.

So would you rank Bethel ahead of Wheaton?  Ahead of St. John's?  St. John's is ranked No. 4, with three wins decided on the last play of the game.

I've long been a lonely minority, arguing that overtime in football is misleading and unnecessary--counterproductive, even.  (Some actually argued that they preferred a loss to a tie, which strikes me as ludicrous.)  But a win in OT is much closer to a tie than a win in regulation is to a tie.

It seems to me that if indirect comparisons are close (as they are with Otterbein and Capital), the direct comparison of a head to head result has to overcome the indirect analysis.  But it's no big deal.  Kean didn't really beat Cortland St., either.