Empire 8 in-game updates

[Upstate]

pg- i agree that its not a trophy for everyone deal, but the kid has talent.
he is a gamer.
he is also dinged up.
unlike tebow- he has the ability to lead his team, and proved that last year.

OK. I respect yours and Fanatic's opinions on this since you pay close attention, I just have my doubts and think some may be getting a tad bit defensive of the guy. However, I don't know enough about the staff to cast doubt on their doing something just because so and so. It's obvious that they have confidence enough to let him start the games, although sometimes it seems they don't have the confidence to actually have him throw it.

Kid threw 27 times... how many times you expect him to throw. Yes a fourth of them of them were bubbles but their offense is based off the run . It even was when bailey played qb. They started two kids that weigh no.more than 250 pounds at tackle one being a freshman. Again the coaches must not have confidence in any other qb but you can't blame the kid for that. He does what he is supposed to play hard and do the best he can (not high school stuff just reality) Fisher isn't as good as people think they are. Lots of holes mostly on the offense but when the whole receiving core is hurt and your best playmaker is banged up all year you're going to have some trouble. They don't have a field goal kicker so three points for any other team is a fourth down play for Fisher .

27 attempts and only 115 yards.

Pathetic.

He can not throw downfield. At all.

There is a difference between running some bubble screens like Bailey would and then relying on them entirely like Kramer does.

He's throw for 1100 yards so far this year. IN EIGHT GAMES!!!!!!

If he plays QB on any other team he is getting pulled.

All the bubbles are off run reads... if he were to throw down field who does he throw it to? There is NO ONE  to throw it to. The receivers this year have more drops then catches. Only reliable threat is 18 Shuey. He even fumbled today. As I said cant  throw to receivers who can't catch. Talk about bad... they are bad. But I won't criticize them because with an exception of Stell ( who is a number 3 receiver at best who is number 1 because of injuries ) who thought they'd see this much time. Its sad when your average qb is the best qb, rb, and wr on the team. Him and miller I think would be a deadly combination and let Kramer spread the field but as we see vos must not have anyone in the bank to make that happen. Therefore they try to run run run because the receivers block better than catch ... barely

If Kramer was half the QB you think he is he would be putting it right on the WRs on every attempt, however that's not the case as the ball is hardly thrown near the WRs for them to catch it...

He can not hit the broad side of a barn, how you think Kramer would be deadly if they spread the field (which they already do) just proves how delusional you are about him...

[Upstate]

Here is what dlip thinks it is fellas. A coach has to create an environment (O and D)) that best fits the type of players he has. He must find a way to get the very best out of each player, identify their strengths and use those strengths to best help the team win. Dlip has a TON of respect for Coach Vos, a ton. If we see Kramer's weakness don't you think Coach Vos does? Obviously, hence the offensive they run, a running O out of the gun. He knows Kramer is the best athlete on that team, he is no doubt in dlip's mind. Kid is ****in nasty, trust dlip he has been around d3 FB for awhile. The key in all this is that Coach Vos knows that even with Kramers struggles at the position he is clearly, in his eyes, the best option for it on the tean.. He knows this believe dlip. What the **** is he supposed to do? Homestly to dlip this offense is more of a knock on the back UPS than Kramer. Dlip bets Kramer would rather be catching passes and running the FB instead of being behind center. Vos is doing the best he can with what he's got. **** if you guys would rather just see someone go out and throw INT's just for the sake of going long the kicker could do that.

If this were true don't you think the team would adopt a true option mentality, because let's face it at best that's all Kramer really is (option QB)...

Start having his older brother call plays to get 10 yards on 4 plays instead of 3 plays and stop having the punter go out there and shank 25 yard punts...

Since NONE of that has happened I find it real hard to buy into what you are saying. They're continuing to run a spread offense with an option QB that can't throw the ball accurately...

[fisherfanatic99]

pg- i agree that its not a trophy for everyone deal, but the kid has talent.
he is a gamer.
he is also dinged up.
unlike tebow- he has the ability to lead his team, and proved that last year.

OK. I respect yours and Fanatic's opinions on this since you pay close attention, I just have my doubts and think some may be getting a tad bit defensive of the guy. However, I don't know enough about the staff to cast doubt on their doing something just because so and so. It's obvious that they have confidence enough to let him start the games, although sometimes it seems they don't have the confidence to actually have him throw it.

Kid threw 27 times... how many times you expect him to throw. Yes a fourth of them of them were bubbles but their offense is based off the run . It even was when bailey played qb. They started two kids that weigh no.more than 250 pounds at tackle one being a freshman. Again the coaches must not have confidence in any other qb but you can't blame the kid for that. He does what he is supposed to play hard and do the best he can (not high school stuff just reality) Fisher isn't as good as people think they are. Lots of holes mostly on the offense but when the whole receiving core is hurt and your best playmaker is banged up all year you're going to have some trouble. They don't have a field goal kicker so three points for any other team is a fourth down play for Fisher .

27 attempts and only 115 yards.

Pathetic.

He can not throw downfield. At all.

There is a difference between running some bubble screens like Bailey would and then relying on them entirely like Kramer does.

He's throw for 1100 yards so far this year. IN EIGHT GAMES!!!!!!

If he plays QB on any other team he is getting pulled.

All the bubbles are off run reads... if he were to throw down field who does he throw it to? There is NO ONE  to throw it to. The receivers this year have more drops then catches. Only reliable threat is 18 Shuey. He even fumbled today. As I said cant  throw to receivers who can't catch. Talk about bad... they are bad. But I won't criticize them because with an exception of Stell ( who is a number 3 receiver at best who is number 1 because of injuries ) who thought they'd see this much time. Its sad when your average qb is the best qb, rb, and wr on the team. Him and miller I think would be a deadly combination and let Kramer spread the field but as we see vos must not have anyone in the bank to make that happen. Therefore they try to run run run because the receivers block better than catch ... barely

If Kramer was half the QB you think he is he would be putting it right on the WRs on every attempt, however that's not the case as the ball is hardly thrown near the WRs for them to catch it...

He can not hit the broad side of a barn, how you think Kramer would be deadly if they spread the field (which they already do) just proves how delusional you are about him...

That's not what I said. I said him and miller would be a great combo and it would be DEADLY if he was able not to play qb and play receiver/ Rb to spread the field. Go back to Mr. Rogers second grade reading class

[Upstate]

pg- i agree that its not a trophy for everyone deal, but the kid has talent.
he is a gamer.
he is also dinged up.
unlike tebow- he has the ability to lead his team, and proved that last year.

OK. I respect yours and Fanatic's opinions on this since you pay close attention, I just have my doubts and think some may be getting a tad bit defensive of the guy. However, I don't know enough about the staff to cast doubt on their doing something just because so and so. It's obvious that they have confidence enough to let him start the games, although sometimes it seems they don't have the confidence to actually have him throw it.

Kid threw 27 times... how many times you expect him to throw. Yes a fourth of them of them were bubbles but their offense is based off the run . It even was when bailey played qb. They started two kids that weigh no.more than 250 pounds at tackle one being a freshman. Again the coaches must not have confidence in any other qb but you can't blame the kid for that. He does what he is supposed to play hard and do the best he can (not high school stuff just reality) Fisher isn't as good as people think they are. Lots of holes mostly on the offense but when the whole receiving core is hurt and your best playmaker is banged up all year you're going to have some trouble. They don't have a field goal kicker so three points for any other team is a fourth down play for Fisher .

27 attempts and only 115 yards.

Pathetic.

He can not throw downfield. At all.

There is a difference between running some bubble screens like Bailey would and then relying on them entirely like Kramer does.

He's throw for 1100 yards so far this year. IN EIGHT GAMES!!!!!!

If he plays QB on any other team he is getting pulled.

All the bubbles are off run reads... if he were to throw down field who does he throw it to? There is NO ONE  to throw it to. The receivers this year have more drops then catches. Only reliable threat is 18 Shuey. He even fumbled today. As I said cant  throw to receivers who can't catch. Talk about bad... they are bad. But I won't criticize them because with an exception of Stell ( who is a number 3 receiver at best who is number 1 because of injuries ) who thought they'd see this much time. Its sad when your average qb is the best qb, rb, and wr on the team. Him and miller I think would be a deadly combination and let Kramer spread the field but as we see vos must not have anyone in the bank to make that happen. Therefore they try to run run run because the receivers block better than catch ... barely

If Kramer was half the QB you think he is he would be putting it right on the WRs on every attempt, however that's not the case as the ball is hardly thrown near the WRs for them to catch it...

He can not hit the broad side of a barn, how you think Kramer would be deadly if they spread the field (which they already do) just proves how delusional you are about him...

That's not what I said. I said him and miller would be a great combo and it would be DEADLY if he was able not to play qb and play receiver/ Rb to spread the field. Go back to Mr. Rogers second grade reading class

I will go back to school as soon as you get off his nuts...

The guy can't play QB yet all year you've been saying how he's soooo good...

Past two years say otherwise...

[fisherfanatic99]

Here is what dlip thinks it is fellas. A coach has to create an environment (O and D)) that best fits the type of players he has. He must find a way to get the very best out of each player, identify their strengths and use those strengths to best help the team win. Dlip has a TON of respect for Coach Vos, a ton. If we see Kramer's weakness don't you think Coach Vos does? Obviously, hence the offensive they run, a running O out of the gun. He knows Kramer is the best athlete on that team, he is no doubt in dlip's mind. Kid is ****in nasty, trust dlip he has been around d3 FB for awhile. The key in all this is that Coach Vos knows that even with Kramers struggles at the position he is clearly, in his eyes, the best option for it on the tean.. He knows this believe dlip. What the **** is he supposed to do? Homestly to dlip this offense is more of a knock on the back UPS than Kramer. Dlip bets Kramer would rather be catching passes and running the FB instead of being behind center. Vos is doing the best he can with what he's got. **** if you guys would rather just see someone go out and throw INT's just for the sake of going long the kicker could do that.

If this were true don't you think the team would adopt a true option mentality, because let's face it at best that's all Kramer really is (option QB)...

Start having his older brother call plays to get 10 yards on 4 plays instead of 3 plays and stop having the punter go out there and shank 25 yard punts...

Since NONE of that has happened I find it real hard to buy into what you are saying. They're continuing to run a spread offense with an option QB that can't throw the ball accurately...

That's what they are doing? They are running a spread OPTION offense ... everything is based off zone reads where qb can hand off, pull and run or pull and throw the bubble. The bubble is PART of the running game. I think the only spread offense you know is the passing one.. it ever occur to you there are different variations of the spread including the SPREAD OPTION... there is a difference between what Texas tech ran with leach (when bailey was qb) and what Clemson runs (with Kramer at qb) both spread games but different styles

[Upstate]

Here is what dlip thinks it is fellas. A coach has to create an environment (O and D)) that best fits the type of players he has. He must find a way to get the very best out of each player, identify their strengths and use those strengths to best help the team win. Dlip has a TON of respect for Coach Vos, a ton. If we see Kramer's weakness don't you think Coach Vos does? Obviously, hence the offensive they run, a running O out of the gun. He knows Kramer is the best athlete on that team, he is no doubt in dlip's mind. Kid is ****in nasty, trust dlip he has been around d3 FB for awhile. The key in all this is that Coach Vos knows that even with Kramers struggles at the position he is clearly, in his eyes, the best option for it on the tean.. He knows this believe dlip. What the **** is he supposed to do? Homestly to dlip this offense is more of a knock on the back UPS than Kramer. Dlip bets Kramer would rather be catching passes and running the FB instead of being behind center. Vos is doing the best he can with what he's got. **** if you guys would rather just see someone go out and throw INT's just for the sake of going long the kicker could do that.

If this were true don't you think the team would adopt a true option mentality, because let's face it at best that's all Kramer really is (option QB)...

Start having his older brother call plays to get 10 yards on 4 plays instead of 3 plays and stop having the punter go out there and shank 25 yard punts...

Since NONE of that has happened I find it real hard to buy into what you are saying. They're continuing to run a spread offense with an option QB that can't throw the ball accurately...

That's what they are doing? They are running a spread OPTION offense ... everything is based off zone reads where qb can hand off, pull and run or pull and throw the bubble. The bubble is PART of the running game. I think the only spread offense you know is the passing one.. it ever occur to you there are different variations of the spread including the SPREAD OPTION... there is a difference between what Texas tech ran with leach (when bailey was qb) and what Clemson runs (with Kramer at qb) both spread games but different styles

Clearly you don't get it, there is no downfield attack because the QB can't throw so teams stack the box. If you are going to try to run any kind of option offense and continually punt on 4th down you are not going to be able to move the ball, which Kramer hasn't.

[fisherfanatic99]

27 attempts and only 115 yards.

Pathetic.

He can not throw downfield. At all.

There is a difference between running some bubble screens like Bailey would and then relying on them entirely like Kramer does.

He's throw for 1100 yards so far this year. IN EIGHT GAMES!!!!!!

If he plays QB on any other team he is getting pulled.
[/quote]

All the bubbles are off run reads... if he were to throw down field who does he throw it to? There is NO ONE  to throw it to. The receivers this year have more drops then catches. Only reliable threat is 18 Shuey. He even fumbled today. As I said cant  throw to receivers who can't catch. Talk about bad... they are bad. But I won't criticize them because with an exception of Stell ( who is a number 3 receiver at best who is number 1 because of injuries ) who thought they'd see this much time. Its sad when your average qb is the best qb, rb, and wr on the team. Him and miller I think would be a deadly combination and let Kramer spread the field but as we see vos must not have anyone in the bank to make that happen. Therefore they try to run run run because the receivers block better than catch ... barely
[/quote]

If Kramer was half the QB you think he is he would be putting it right on the WRs on every attempt, however that's not the case as the ball is hardly thrown near the WRs for them to catch it...

He can not hit the broad side of a barn, how you think Kramer would be deadly if they spread the field (which they already do) just proves how delusional you are about him...
[/quote]

That's not what I said. I said him and miller would be a great combo and it would be DEADLY if he was able not to play qb and play receiver/ Rb to spread the field. Go back to Mr. Rogers second grade reading class
[/quote]

I will go back to school as soon as you get off his nuts...

The guy can't play QB yet all year you've been saying how he's soooo good...

Past two years say otherwise...
[/quote]

I'm not on his nuts.. I have coach vos's back. The best option is Kramer he has changed the offense to better fit him. The offense scored tons of points last year but weren't respected. The kid can't win... he plays qb when he is a Rb/we because that's what his team needs. Fisher made playoffs with him at qb no.matter what way you look at it.. bailey never did. To attack the kid who is forced not chooses to play the qb position (not like he came in as a qb) I respec what he has done and they way he plays the game. I will defend Ryan Kramer on this debate always because he plays team ball and he goes out there with no complaints and plays the hardest position in college football. He played well last year and has noticeably thrown the ball better this year.  He should be at another position but realistically fisher has no one better to put at qb. Sorry that frustrates all of us but its not his coach vos's or his brothers fault ... its just what it is

[fisheralum91]

27 attempts and only 115 yards.

Pathetic.

He can not throw downfield. At all.

There is a difference between running some bubble screens like Bailey would and then relying on them entirely like Kramer does.

He's throw for 1100 yards so far this year. IN EIGHT GAMES!!!!!!

If he plays QB on any other team he is getting pulled.

All the bubbles are off run reads... if he were to throw down field who does he throw it to? There is NO ONE  to throw it to. The receivers this year have more drops then catches. Only reliable threat is 18 Shuey. He even fumbled today. As I said cant  throw to receivers who can't catch. Talk about bad... they are bad. But I won't criticize them because with an exception of Stell ( who is a number 3 receiver at best who is number 1 because of injuries ) who thought they'd see this much time. Its sad when your average qb is the best qb, rb, and wr on the team. Him and miller I think would be a deadly combination and let Kramer spread the field but as we see vos must not have anyone in the bank to make that happen. Therefore they try to run run run because the receivers block better than catch ... barely
[/quote]

If Kramer was half the QB you think he is he would be putting it right on the WRs on every attempt, however that's not the case as the ball is hardly thrown near the WRs for them to catch it...

He can not hit the broad side of a barn, how you think Kramer would be deadly if they spread the field (which they already do) just proves how delusional you are about him...
[/quote]

That's not what I said. I said him and miller would be a great combo and it would be DEADLY if he was able not to play qb and play receiver/ Rb to spread the field. Go back to Mr. Rogers second grade reading class
[/quote]

I will go back to school as soon as you get off his nuts...

The guy can't play QB yet all year you've been saying how he's soooo good...

Past two years say otherwise...
[/quote]

I'm not on his nuts.. I have coach vos's back. The best option is Kramer he has changed the offense to better fit him. The offense scored tons of points last year but weren't respected. The kid can't win... he plays qb when he is a Rb/we because that's what his team needs. Fisher made playoffs with him at qb no.matter what way you look at it.. bailey never did. To attack the kid who is forced not chooses to play the qb position (not like he came in as a qb) I respec what he has done and they way he plays the game. I will defend Ryan Kramer on this debate always because he plays team ball and he goes out there with no complaints and plays the hardest position in college football. He played well last year and has noticeably thrown the ball better this year.  He should be at another position but realistically fisher has no one better to put at qb. Sorry that frustrates all of us but its not his coach vos's or his brothers fault ... its just what it is
[/quote]
That sounds like a very familiar opinion....

[Upstate]

I'm not on his nuts.. I have coach vos's back. The best option is Kramer he has changed the offense to better fit him. The offense scored tons of points last year but weren't respected. The kid can't win... he plays qb when he is a Rb/we because that's what his team needs. Fisher made playoffs with him at qb no.matter what way you look at it.. bailey never did. To attack the kid who is forced not chooses to play the qb position (not like he came in as a qb) I respec what he has done and they way he plays the game. I will defend Ryan Kramer on this debate always because he plays team ball and he goes out there with no complaints and plays the hardest position in college football. He played well last year and has noticeably thrown the ball better this year.  He should be at another position but realistically fisher has no one better to put at qb. Sorry that frustrates all of us but its not his coach vos's or his brothers fault ... its just what it is

First they snuck into the playoffs, they didn't earn it on the field. Second the team made their run without Kramer at QB. You can have Vos's back all you want, I played for him. I know all about his ability to "coach". He is horrible with the clock and gets by most of the time because of the talent on the field he gets. 

You guys can go on and on about how great of a guy he is, how hard he works and all that but guess what? It doesn't translate to wins if you can't throw the ball. Which he can't.

[dlippiel]

To that dlip agrees Upstate, he can't throw the ball Downfield on any type of consistent basis. What this team needs is an offensive identity with players that are recruited to fit that type of O. They need to overhaul that side of the football with a more balanced plan and recryited personel to execute that plan (dlip just basically repeated himself). Dlip just can't believe Vos woyld put this kid at QB if he wasn't the teams best option right now. Who knows. All dlip knows is that Fisher has got to make changes (big picture) if they want to get to that "next" level. You know the level that they were soooooooooo close to the year of their awesome semi-final run.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Didn't FF99 say he was done posting?  I wish that were still true.  I'm with Upstate - that guy is completely biased to the point of delusion with Kramer.  I love how he keeps saying Kramer is throwing the ball even better this year.  ARE YOU SERIOUS?  Are we watching the same games?  The wobbling, hanging, majority of the time over/under thrown passes that he specializes in?  Those ones?  I can't even count how many times he blew opportunities to get the ball to open WR's because of his ineffectiveness.  Also why do you keep bringing up Bailey?  Sorry Bailey couldn't play defense as well.  If Tim Bailey were the QB on this team with the current defense backing him up...forget about it.  Fisher would be scary good.  If you want to argue otherwise then you'd be proving how stubborn you are.  Kramer's intangibles that you speak so highly of has led our offense nowhere all year long. 

Oh and FA91 please don't say how you just know Fenti or any of the others are so much worse after only seeing them play for the maximum of one to two games.  You don't have two year samples of how they would perform leading the offense, you just don't.  With Fenti you had one full game against the best team in the E8 and he did very well until the last few minutes.  With Ahmed you saw him be the one to fill in and do a serviceable job in the playoffs last year...leading Fisher to wins (maybe he has those same intangibles FF99?) until Kramer got back and was completely shut down by St. Thomas. 

[fisheralum91]

Boob-
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this
While I agree that Kramer could be used better in another position, I wont waiver from the dislike of the use of Fenti or Ahmed as a starter.

[fisherfanatic99]

Didn't FF99 say he was done posting?  I wish that were still true.  I'm with Upstate - that guy is completely biased to the point of delusion with Kramer.  I love how he keeps saying Kramer is throwing the ball even better this year.  ARE YOU SERIOUS?  Are we watching the same games?  The wobbling, hanging, majority of the time over/under thrown passes that he specializes in?  Those ones?  I can't even count how many times he blew opportunities to get the ball to open WR's because of his ineffectiveness.  Also why do you keep bringing up Bailey?  Sorry Bailey couldn't play defense as well.  If Tim Bailey were the QB on this team with the current defense backing him up...forget about it.  Fisher would be scary good.  If you want to argue otherwise then you'd be proving how stubborn you are.  Kramer's intangibles that you speak so highly of has led our offense nowhere all year long. 

Oh and FA91 please don't say how you just know Fenti or any of the others are so much worse after only seeing them play for the maximum of one to two games.  You don't have two year samples of how they would perform leading the offense, you just don't.  With Fenti you had one full game against the best team in the E8 and he did very well until the last few minutes.  With Ahmed you saw him be the one to fill in and do a serviceable job in the playoffs last year...leading Fisher to wins (maybe he has those same intangibles FF99?) until Kramer got back and was completely shut down by St. Thomas.

One I got back because I felt Kramer was getting attacked for no good reasons . We have already said we see the games in a different perspective . One that I think fisheralum sees much more similar to me. Two Kramer didn't play more than a series or two in Minnesota in which both were series fisher was driving . He was taken out because be was playing with a torn muscle in his leg. Three I keep saying bailey because you and upstate think he's god when he never got fisher in the playoffs. When it comes down to it and you look at Kramer was the starting qb for a playoff team and bailey wasn't. Vos coaches and pledges team chemistry..last year they had it this year they don't. All I'm saying is you say Kramer can't throw the ball when honestly the only game he was throwing it was Alfred . Pete and gene said TEN drop balls and three were on the end zone. Kramer shouldn't be playing qb but its not all his fault. He has no offensive players around him but 13 and 18. You don't need a pass game that puts up big numbers to win (proven last year ) you and upstate are just in love with passing yards and TDs when honestly all I enjoy talking about is wins . Heck fisher is not doing what we hoped they would but they are still 6-3 and think they will end up 7-3. Ive said it before and will again and i know fa91 agrees with me Vos knows his players and his team better than we do... if Kramer wasn't the answer he wouldn't have played every game except one hurt at no more than 75% of full health. Its not his brothers decision its the head coaches to say who ultimately plays and competes as the starting qb

[Upstate]

Do you honestly think Kramer led them to the playoffs?

They got lucky and became the second two loss team to get in since 99 due to lucky breaks across the board. Fisher went 8-2 in 2011. Guess what fisher went in 2010? 8-2. They ROLLED people week in and week out for 8 weeks in 2010. In their two losses they scored 49 and 31 points. Their two losses their defense didn't show up like they have for the past two years.

In fact Kramer had squat to do with their two NCAA wins so you can't even say he led them on a run there.

You're obviously attached to him, family perhaps, to get this butt hurt because people say he's not a good QB. This Fisher offense is the worst offense in a decade with Kramer at QB, not a coincidence. Kramer and this offense has put the team in bad position time and time again. Yet you can't see that. Teams actually laugh at the idea of Kramer beating them deep and if you are that one dimensional you're toast.

[pg04]

Although I agree with your points, some credibility is lost when an adult uses the phrase "butt hurt."  . Although there is an extreme existing defensiveness.