ECACs

[dlippiel]

At least to dlip Benkwitt is quite good BUT dlip hasn't really see enough of him to go any further than that. He has impressed dlip a ton in the past two years against Union and his numbers are solid. To dlio, he is good BUT not even in Jason Boltus league. Boltus and Phelan made Wick relevant playing 2 vs. 11. Don't know if dlip has seen much better than that in person on this level.

[Bombers798891]

Benkwitt was a good player...and the last two years he had certainly had some offensive weapons around him...but I am not sure how good he really is, in terms of where he ranks up against other E8 QB's of the past 10 years or so.  Maybe Top 10-15?  Maybe scratching the surface of the Top 10?  The stats tell me he should be up there...I mean, he did throw for over 10,000+ yards and over 80 TD's for his career.  He did lead UC to a 20-20 overall record the past four years.  The one stat through that bothers me though is the 6-18 record against E8 opponents (with a 14-2 record against non-conference opponents).  Was that all on him?  No...but there were certain games where he disappeared as well.  Would I ever put him in the same conversation with the likes of Boltus, Keeley, Sharpe, Bailey, Kramer (Rob), and several IC QB's?  Probably not...

Come on. Our guys don't even get names? Weak.

Benkwitt = Boltus lite.

Seriously, tell me these last two Utica teams weren't like Team Boltus, just not at the level with the QB/Top WRs.

In their last 20 games, Utica's defense has allowed 40+ points ten times and the offense has scored 40+ seven times. Let's look at some of Team Boltus's scores from 2007 and 2008:

48-21 (L), 46-36 (L), 42-21 (L), 72-70 (W), 61-32 (W), 63-37 (W), 69-42 (L), 58-27 (W), 45-31 (L), 70-68 (L)

I'm not saying Benkwitt is as good as Boltus (Who was the 2nd best QB in the E8 the last 10 years—that's right, I said it) and Utica never had a WR in the same class as Phelan, which is why they never quite got there, but still. No two teams have done this quite like the Wick and Utica. But still, there are some striking similarities. I say we call Utica Team Benkwitt from now on

Personally, I thought that Fellicetti, BY, O'Donovan, and Juvan were all just as good, or better than Benkwitt.

Boltus the 2nd best QB in the E8?  Whatever you are smoking...puff, puff, pass my friend!!!

BY was not that good. His senior season, on an 11-2 team (The only one I have stats for):

112-202 (55.4%) 1562 yards, 19 TD, 12 INT

Juvan spent his senior year sort of banged up and missed several games, so we need to look at his 2007:

178-290 (61.4%) 2621 yards, 24 TD, 6 INT

Felicetti's senior year, 2005

224-317 (70.7%) 2883, 34 TD, 12 INT

Young was a decent QB, Juvan was very good, Felicetti was great.

As for Felicetti being better than Boltus, part of the problem in comparing the two is that they were used differently.

In his last two seasons, 70% of Hartwick's plays were either a Boltus pass, run, or sack
In his last two seasons, 44% of Ithaca's plays were either a Felicetti pass, run, or sack

So really, it's useless to compare counting stats. Boltus's INT/TD percentages were better, but Felicetti's accuracy was much better. Boltus's QB efficiency rating was also higher those last two seasons (162-157) although since I don't have his freshman and sophomore seasons handy, the overall numbers could skew either way. My guess is that Feliceti's numbers will drop less because he threw less his first two years when his numbers were lower, but maybe Boltus's don't suffer either

Close, but the overall accuracy makes me lean Felicetti

[Bombers798891]

At least to dlip Benkwitt is quite good BUT dlip hasn't really see enough of him to go any further than that. He has impressed dlip a ton in the past two years against Union and his numbers are solid. To dlio, he is good BUT not even in Jason Boltus league. Boltus and Phelan made Wick relevant playing 2 vs. 11. Don't know if dlip has seen much better than that in person on this level.

My Benkwitt/Boltus comp was just done to illustrate that in both cases, you had a QB shouldering an offense while a defense sort of idly participated. It wasn't like a IC/Fisher situation with some of their QB's where the team was loaded everwhere

[Yanks 99]

Bombers...you and I actually agree on a lot of things.  But Fellicetti is not even in the same conversation as Boltus.  I don't even care about the stats...and I have admitted on here before that Fellicetti is without question a Top 5 All-Time E8 QB, probably a Top 3 guy.  But it's not close...

[Bombers798891]

Yanks--

We can agree to disagree of course. It's a rarity (kind of like me agreeing with Frank) but it happens

[sjfcards]

Bombers...you and I actually agree on a lot of things.  But Fellicetti is not even in the same conversation as Boltus.  I don't even care about the stats...and I have admitted on here before that Fellicetti is without question a Top 5 All-Time E8 QB, probably a Top 3 guy.  But it's not close...

Having seen a few of these QB's I don't think many people were in the same conversation as Boltus. I have seen a few of them but Boltus has always stood out as the best QB that I have seen in the E8. I don't know that for pure talent, smarts, and arm strength there has been many better than him in the league.

[Bombers798891]

Bombers...you and I actually agree on a lot of things.  But Fellicetti is not even in the same conversation as Boltus.  I don't even care about the stats...and I have admitted on here before that Fellicetti is without question a Top 5 All-Time E8 QB, probably a Top 3 guy.  But it's not close...

Having seen a few of these QB's I don't think many people were in the same conversation as Boltus. I have seen a few of them but Boltus has always stood out as the best QB that I have seen in the E8. I don't know that for pure talent, smarts, and arm strength there has been many better than him in the league.

I think this is where my issue is. I agree that on a pure talent level, it was Boltus and Boltus alone. But it's not just about raw physical talent. As I said, I think Dan Juvan had more raw physical talent than Josh—heck he even was a non-roster invitee to Bills camp one season—but when it comes to on the field production (taking into account the differences in usage) I think Josh comes out slightly ahead, especially as their careers progressed, and certainly not so far behind it's an open and shut case.

By the way, anyone have Boltus' 2005/2006 stats? The Wick site only goes back to 2007...

[sjfcards]

By the way, anyone have Boltus' 2005/2006 stats? The Wick site only goes back to 2007...

I can't remember the exact total, but I think he had around 3 Trillion yards passing against Fisher in those two years.

Phelan had 134 touchdown catches

[Yanks 99]

Like you said Bombers...we can agree to disagree.  Pure talent wise, and at least to me, Boltus was by far and away #1 QB, and it really isn't close.  Though I will say that when you say "on the field production", I don't know how you can overlook the all-time leader in total yards in D3 NCAA history.

Better yet when taking a look at Fellicetti...and to reiterate that I completely believe that Fellicetti is an absolute Top 3-5 All-Time E8 QB...when a guy has an outstanding career and ends up throwing for over 9,000 yards and 86 TD's...that is seriously amazing.  It seems crazier when you mention that Boltus threw for over 4,100 more yards (believe the final total was something like 13,345...or very close to that) and 48 more TD's (final total being 134) than these totals, all while playing five less games, with a far inferior offensive line and a absolute suspect defense.  Wick had starting offensive lineman that were far shorter and weighed less than Boltus.

I understand the stat line you are using here...I just don't happen to agree with it in this case.

[fisheralum91]

God I dont miss Boltus.....
How to ruin a perfectly good road trip to Oneonta!

[Yanks 99]

God I dont miss Boltus.....
How to ruin a perfectly good road trip to Oneonta!

Come on now...you loved it...

[dlippiel]

Dlip had ****in man crushes on both Boltus and Sharpe. ****in nasty players!

[Bombers798891]

Like you said Bombers...we can agree to disagree.  Pure talent wise, and at least to me, Boltus was by far and away #1 QB, and it really isn't close.  Though I will say that when you say "on the field production", I don't know how you can overlook the all-time leader in total yards in D3 NCAA history.

Boltus threw for over 4,100 more yards and 48 more TD's all while playing five less games,

Of course he did. Hartwick's entire offense went through him. Ithaca's was balanced. Efficiency matters too.

Look at the 2005 game for example

Boltus 25-42, 353 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT
Felicetti 10-13, 216 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT

If Josh had thrown the ball 42 times in that game, I shudder to think of his yardage total.

The Springfield game in 2008 for example, Boltus had 50 pass attempts and 10 rushes. That's 60 of the team's 68 plays that went through him. Ithaca's offense was never that one dimensional, yes partly because they had better players in the backfield, but mostly because Ithaca's never been that kind of offense.

I understand this helped Felicetti in certain ways and hurts Boltus in others, but there were games where Jason would throw the ball 60 times. Of course he's going to have more yards and touchdowns.

[Upstate]

I've never seen a single player make his team that much better than they really were like Boltus did with Hartwick...

You take Boltus off that team, and no offense Yanks, they are a 3 win team...

Since 2002 the Hawks won 17 Empire 8 games, 9 of them came in 2007/2008 with Boltus...

If you take Felicetti off those Bomber teams and they're still winning 7-8 games...

[Yanks 99]

I've never seen a single player make his team that much better than they really were like Boltus did with Hartwick...

You take Boltus off that team, and no offense Yanks, they are a 3 win team...

Since 2002 the Hawks won 17 Empire 8 games, 9 of them came in 2007/2008 with Boltus...If you take Felicetti off those Bomber teams and they're still winning 7-8 games...

That...that right there says it all...and Upstate, no offense taken, as you assessment is probably pretty close to accurate.