ECACs

[ExTartanPlayer]

I'm sure this gets rehashed almost every year, but a few words in defense of the existence of ECAC games (since most of what currently resides on this thread is a downer).

Bombers laid out what can happen with a program like Fisher. Let's extend that to describe the

1. A program that's just had their best season in several years (Bethany) or ever (Stevenson)

2. A program whose season might have been slightly disappointing, but closed on a winning streak (Albright) or playing especially well (Waynesburg)

3. A program that thinks they should have made the playoffs and wants to call it quits for the season

Teams 1 and 2 are going to be excited about the ECAC game. The only team(s) out of the whole group that I see who probably feel "meh" about this are SJF and, who, Salisbury? Even those dudes are probably happy to get one more game.

As for whether the ECACs have "run their course" for Fisher: y'all have been to the playoffs twice in the last seven seasons. Maybe you, the fans, are tired of ECAC games because they represent another season that fell short of your expectations, but come on.  The only programs who ought to feel above the ECAC are teams that actually make the playoffs more often than they miss them.

I get that fans don't HAVE to share the feelings of the team, but if you root for these guys all season and THEY want to enjoy one more game, it seems sporting to support them in that desire.  Don't be that d-bag who puts on his Jets jersey and claims he's a huge Jets fan, then boos at halftime and leaves in the third quarter.

I've relayed this anecdote previously: I was a senior on a 6-4 team that played in the ECACs after making the playoffs the season before.  Coming down the stretch I wasn't really sure how I (or any of the seniors) would react at the prospect of an ECAC game - would some guys just want the season over with?  Once we got word we had a game...unanimous excitement amongst the upperclassmen. We got a one week reprieve from being done with football for good. We got one more chance to suit up and play with our buddies. It was the most fun week of the season, really.  Maybe one or two of the teams in this year's field share the Fisher apathy, but for Albright, Stevenson, Bethany, Waynesburg, Buffalo State, etc...I bet all those dudes are pretty excited to have one more game.

[Saxon73]

ExTP,  well said, and as usual you make a well stated and cogent statement.

[GoTech73]

I've relayed this anecdote previously: I was a senior on a 6-4 team that played in the ECACs after making the playoffs the season before.  Coming down the stretch I wasn't really sure how I (or any of the seniors) would react at the prospect of an ECAC game - would some guys just want the season over with?  Once we got word we had a game...unanimous excitement amongst the upperclassmen. We got a one week reprieve from being done with football for good. We got one more chance to suit up and play with our buddies. It was the most fun week of the season, really.  Maybe one or two of the teams in this year's field share the Fisher apathy, but for Albright, Stevenson, Bethany, Waynesburg, Buffalo State, etc...I bet all those dudes are pretty excited to have one more game.

I agree - I can't imagine any senior not being excited for one more game. I could see underclassmen just wanting the season to be over with, but I think it would be really hard to find any senior that just wants their *career* to be over with. Football is unique in that once you're done at the collegiate level, you're pretty much done playing the sport. Basketball, soccer, lacrosse, etc. all can be pretty closely replicated in rec leagues or pickup games of all shapes and sizes, but there's really no equivalent for football. Flag football leagues just make one miss the real game even more (especially linemen...). Making that last game a "bowl game" honestly might the best way to end a career at the DIII level.

[fisheralum91]

The one question that I will pose (while agreeing that one more game is great for the seniors) is what is the value of a monkey stomp other than giving your younger guys a look for next year?

[lewdogg11]

Look, for years a lot of people had said one of the reasons Mt Union continues to be so good is that they get to play 14 games each season. While an ECAC game may feel like a slight to some elitists, a different attitude could see it as a building block for next season. It's one more game for seniors and 4 more quarters of experience for the younger guys that might be valuable next season.  You can win and end on a high note, or be a team like Western CT and likely lose but have a better gauge of where you are as a program and maybe what you need to do to get there.

I'm sure plenty of former players on this board would do a lot for 'one more game'.  It shouldn't be viewed poorly. If it is, maybe that attitude is a reason for being unable to win crucial regular season games.

[ExTartanPlayer]

The one question that I will pose (while agreeing that one more game is great for the seniors) is what is the value of a monkey stomp other than giving your younger guys a look for next year?

This actually IS a fair question, so maybe the issue at hand here isn't just playing the ECAC game, but trying to make sure that the matchups are all relatively even. It would be nice if Fisher was playing Framingham State, maybe. But skimming through all of the matchups, SJF vs. WestConn is the only one that stands out as particularly lopsided. All of the others are even-ish, depending on the respective motivations of each team.

This is reminiscent of another chicken-or-egg argument I have been through about scheduling: some fans complain that NEFC, ECFC, and MASCAC teams don't play anyone, that's why they never get better, and it's horrible that anyone from that league is allowed to go to the playoffs when playing such a schedule full of patsies...and then those same fans complain when any team from their precious league actually schedules one of those teams.  Even if the ECAC game wasn't voluntarily scheduled, it's still a good way for those teams to get exposure to an opponent from a better league.  What's more valuable for the NEFC/MASCAC team trying to reach the next level: an ECAC game against Norwich, or an ECAC game against St. John Fisher?  Isn't it good for those teams to get an occasional game against an Empire 8 team?

[lewdogg11]

The one question that I will pose (while agreeing that one more game is great for the seniors) is what is the value of a monkey stomp other than giving your younger guys a look for next year?

This actually IS a fair question, so maybe the issue at hand here isn't just playing the ECAC game, but trying to make sure that the matchups are all relatively even. It would be nice if Fisher was playing Framingham State, maybe. But skimming through all of the matchups, SJF vs. WestConn is the only one that stands out as particularly lopsided. All of the others are even-ish, depending on the respective motivations of each team.

This is reminiscent of another chicken-or-egg argument I have been through about scheduling: some fans complain that NEFC, ECFC, and MASCAC teams don't play anyone, that's why they never get better, and it's horrible that anyone from that league is allowed to go to the playoffs when playing such a schedule full of patsies...and then those same fans complain when any team from their precious league actually schedules one of those teams.  Even if the ECAC game wasn't voluntarily scheduled, it's still a good way for those teams to get exposure to an opponent from a better league.  What's more valuable for the NEFC/MASCAC team trying to reach the next level: an ECAC game against Norwich, or an ECAC game against St. John Fisher?  Isn't it good for those teams to get an occasional game against an Empire 8 team?

Honestly, if I were a player on Wesconn, I'd want to play St. John Fisher.  Do you think St. Lawrence was pissed that they got to play Mt. union a few years ago?  Even if they got man handled, I think a game like that helps a program.

[ITH radio]

All the kids we speak to each week on ITH would take the extra game if they could get it. We shared our disappointment in SLU's policy against ECAC participation to their athletic dept. RPI is thrilled to have one more game and it'll be a tough one against FSU. Not sure exactly how the match ups are selected but Frank surmised it's not unlike NCAAs in that teams are ranked and paired accordingly. That would point to FSU being a 1 and RPI likely being the last team in with a 6-4 record.

[jknezek]

All the kids we speak to each week on ITH would take the extra game if they could get it. We shared our disappointment in SLU's policy against ECAC participation to their athletic dept. RPI is thrilled to have one more game and it'll be a tough one against FSU. Not sure exactly how the match ups are selected but Frank surmised it's not unlike NCAAs in that teams are ranked and paired accordingly. That would point to FSU being a 1 and RPI likely being the last team in with a 6-4 record.

I don't understand why you would do the match ups this way. It's not a tournament, it's a single game. The goal should be to match up even strength teams so the games are competitive. That benefits both teams. Ranking from the top down should set up non-competitive games for half the teams. Why bother?

[Saxon73]

I don't understand why you would do the match ups this way. It's not a tournament, it's a single game. The goal should be to match up even strength teams so the games are competitive. That benefits both teams. Ranking from the top down should set up non-competitive games for half the teams. Why bother?

Agreed here.  The current pairings look pretty much geographic except for the SJF - WCon matchup.  I would like to have seen SJF play Fram or Mo'ville. It could be enlightening or exciting.

[ECoastFootball]

I would like to see how they pick these teams and match them up. I would think they should rank them and then have 1v2, 3v4, 5v6 and so on.

Also, How does West Conn make it over Worcester (both 7-3 and Worcester beat West Conn at West Conn) and Norwich make it over Castleton (both 7-3 and Castleton beat Norwich at NU 48-28 last week)? Did Worcester and Castleton not apply?

[sjfcards]

The one question that I will pose (while agreeing that one more game is great for the seniors) is what is the value of a monkey stomp other than giving your younger guys a look for next year?

One extra week of practice isn't bad either. I hate that Fisher is in the ECAC game this year, but if it were this or no game at all, I will take this. Fisher can keep working on things, they can experiment in these games, and it keeps the returning players together for one more week. I had a couple friends that were on the football team at Fisher when I was there and I remember them talking about how ECAC games allowed them to have a different focus during film sessions, practice, etc. One guy in particular was firmly in a backup roll at his position all year. During the ECAC week Fisher still played the starter, but this guy was MUCH more involved in the preparation for the game. And, becuase Fisher won big, he got some playing time. It was a great week for him, and he developed as a player because of it.

I have never understood why any team would opt out of an ECAC game (other than for budget reasons). I get that IC and Fisher may consider themselves beyond these games as a program, but honestly it is a week of practice that all but a handful of teams don't get. Use the game as a chance to get better and continue what you do well. That is the reward for having a good season, even if you don't make the playoffs.

[Frank Rossi]

I would like to see how they pick these teams and match them up. I would think they should rank them and then have 1v2, 3v4, 5v6 and so on.

Also, How does West Conn make it over Worcester (both 7-3 and Worcester beat West Conn at West Conn) and Norwich make it over Castleton (both 7-3 and Castleton beat Norwich at NU 48-28 last week)? Did Worcester and Castleton not apply?

They try to do a 1/6, 2/5, 3/4 matchup process, but attempts are made to allow for geographic feasibility, avoidance of rematches, conference inclusion, and regional balance (like Morrisville and Buff State flopping regions).  This has developed a lot more over the past five years -- I think there's been a move to try to create some more compelling matchups that will allow for these games to generate more overall interest. I actually think this batch of games isn't bad.  SJF shouldn't take WestConn lightly, as it's a team that's got some real talent that can shock some teams.  The Framingham St./RPI matchup will show if FS was legit in its 9-1 or if RPI at 6-4 still packs more talent than some of the better New England teams.  Those are just two examples.  I'm oddly more interested to see how this batch of games plays out more than normal, to be honest.

[ECoastFootball]

I would like to see how they pick these teams and match them up. I would think they should rank them and then have 1v2, 3v4, 5v6 and so on.

Also, How does West Conn make it over Worcester (both 7-3 and Worcester beat West Conn at West Conn) and Norwich make it over Castleton (both 7-3 and Castleton beat Norwich at NU 48-28 last week)? Did Worcester and Castleton not apply?

Also, how does 8-2 WNEC not get a game?

[ITH radio]

Castleton must have withdrawn as they weren't on final list. Its possible WNE could have been a late drop as well. I know ECAC comm tries to give members of different conferences a shot, and this field has every conf covered. FSU prob made it such that WooState was edged out given MASCAC already had a rep?