WBB: NESCAC

[sumfun]

Seems to me the NESCAC overall is a little down this year, but time will tell.  The 7th rank could be a bit high when you consider that Voigt, Crowley, and Hardy haven't played that many minutes due to the depth Amherst has had in the past.  They did get to practice against that depth though, so I agree with Amh63 that things will come together as the year progresses and they all have more minutes together under their belt.

[sumfun]

Am I missing something or do others have trouble picking up games on iPads even when clicking on stream for mobile device.  Also Amherst men's score is in women's score and currently I live stats.

[amh63]

Amherst wins a close one against Conn. College in New London.  Score was 50-48....with a last second 3-pointer by Conn. cut a 5 point lead to two.  Again Amherst's defense carried them when their offense sputter....again.  Amherst lost the battle on the boards 39-31.  Strange game at times.  Hardy seemed reluctant to shoot after not scoring a point and going 0-4 from outside yesterday.  Today, she made her foul shots and made two critical 3-pointers, including a rare four point play.....being fouled while shooting a 3-pointer. In fact, I believe she scored 6 points straight and gave Amherst a lead after being down 5 points with around 4 minutes to go.  M. Voigt who had to sit with 4 fouls came back to make 4 straight foul shots giving Amherst a 5-point lead with about 9 seconds to go in the game.  Meg Robertson had 10 points and 5 rebounds and must have blocked 4 or 5 shots.....but only credited for one....and altered several more.  Voigt had double figures also as did Hardy.  Crowley had 9 points but was saddled early with 4 fouls.  Amherst got no points from its other starter in FY guard Pritchard.  Need some reliable scoring from somewhere in the future as teams learn to play physical against Amherst.

[amh63]

Sumfun....based on my limited experience with my wife's IPAD, many of the broadcasts cannot interface with the IOS6 on Apple's mobile device well....one has to download an app...free in general.  Found that out in a MBB webcast.  This difficulty should change as more webcasts are updated.....some webcasts does not do well with Apple products without an outside "helper" software.

[Maine 1]

After seeing the scores of the two Amherst games, I am wondering if those scores are a reflection of the quality of the current Amherst squad, significant improvement by both Wesleyan and Conn College, or both.  Looks like Williams and Tufts had good weekends to start the NESCAC season

[amh63]

Maine 1.....only time will tell.  Over on the MBB board, Midd. had two close....very close wins at Bates and at Tufts.  Your comment wrt Amherst here could apply to the Midd. men's team.  My take is that Conn.'s has some FY players that will get more time soon based on the game I watched against Amherst.  With respect to Wes.....Amherst's had more control of the game and Wes. started to make everything they threw up near the end of the game.  Both games were away games for Amherst.  All the WBB matches had close games on Friday.  The ninth ranked Tufts team only won by 5 at home against Williams.  Is that a reflection of the Tufts team? Who knows.

[nescachoopsfan2]

Having followed NESCAC basketball for the last few years, I feel this is definitely a down year for the league. Two factors:
1.) There aren't as many quality teams as years past. The NESCAC sent five teams to the 2010 NCAA Tourney, four to the 2011 Tourney, and three to the 2012 Tourney (though remember that Colby probably should have made it). This year, it seems like it will be tough to make an at-large case for anyone outside of Amherst, Williams, and Tufts - every other team in the league already has between 4 and 8 losses.
2.) The top of the conference, starting with Amherst, isn't as dominant. That's not intended as a knock against Amherst - but more just the reality of what happens when you graduate five all-NESCAC players in two years. Still a very dangerous and very well-coached team, but not nearly as deep as they've been recently. The fact that they only played 7 players and got only 4 bench points against a perennial bottom-half-of-the-league team like Conn. College shows how reliant they are on their starting five - very different from the Amherst teams of recent years that had a lot of experience (Lem Atanga McCormick, Jackie Renner, Marcia Voigt, etc.) coming off the bench. Still wouldn't bet against a G.P. Gromacki-coached team, but just doesn't strike me as that totally dominant, very balanced Amherst team of the last few seasons.

As for the weekend, Tufts probably could/should have won by bigger margins against Williams and Middlebury - but it shouldn't be discounted that those were their third and fourth games of the week. I also don't think a win by "only" four against Williams is somehow a poor reflection of Tufts. Williams has received top-25 votes the entire season, and they entered Friday with just one loss (by one point to a Bridgewater St. team that's performed very well against several NESCAC opponents this year). So I don't think Tufts' close win against Williams was all that comparable to Amherst's close win against Wesleyan.

[Maine 1]

would agree in general with nescachoops fan. I think the Tufts win over what appears to be a strong Williams team, even though close, would seem to indicate that Tufts is a strong team.  Much more difficult to understand Amherst's close wins at Wesleyan and Conn College.  It maybe that we are going to see a new number one team out of the NESCAC in 2013

[joe8579]

My take is that Conn.'s has some FY players that will get more time soon based on the game I watched against Amherst.  With respect to Wes.....Amherst's had more control of the game and Wes. started to make everything they threw up near the end of the game.  Both games were away games for Amherst.  All the WBB matches had close games on Friday.  The ninth ranked Tufts team only won by 5 at home against Williams.  Is that a reflection of the Tufts team? Who knows.

What kind of reflection is it that Tufts only beat Conn by 32 earlier this week - at Conn? You just can't read that much into single games.

[nescachoopsfan2]

It maybe that we are going to see a new number one team out of the NESCAC in 2013

At the very least, I think there's much more competition for the top spot than in season's past, when Amherst had a stranglehold on the NESCAC and was the undisputed top team in the league. The combination of Amherst graduating four starters from last year's Final Four team, Tufts gaining an infusion of young talent (including three sophomores who are starting for them this year), and Williams bringing back a very strong class of current seniors has made the top a lot more muddled than in recent years.

I, too, am hesitant to make too big a deal out of one or two results from this weekend, as Amherst's body of work is very strong and back-to-back NESCAC games on the road are always difficult. That being said, Amherst's lack of bench production this weekend against two of the lesser opponents in the league is a red flag, at the very least.

[amh63]

Nice to see all the "new" posters on the board.  Points raised and opinions, imo, are well taken....thought out.
If the focus is on the present Amherst squad.....I agree that there are shortcomings so far as shown up this weekend.  Does Coach G. wish he had more experience players to go to....sure...as do all coaches.  I could point out many shortcomings on this team....when it is compared with the teams of the past few years.  However it is now 2013 and not 2010 or 2011, etc.  The teams in the "CAC" are also changing, improving with new young players.  It is always surprising to me in WBB that contests between "good" teams and "poor" teams often end up in blowouts.  Blowouts meaning by 25 points and up.  Last year in a tournament in Vegas, Amherst won by over 60 points that proved meaningless as a learning experience...even for the bench players,imho.....but does change the stats for the team.  In the MBB games there are often more unexpected close games than blowouts.  Go read the Pathernation writeup of Midd.'s 1 point win against Tufts.  Tufts new players are given due credit, Midd.'s experienced starters are questioned, etc.  In short, even top players have good days and bad days. 
Last year, in a road trip weekend in Maine, the Amherst team struggled in several games, I believe.....and Colby was given credit as it should have.  This weekend, Amherst's offense struggled....NOT the defense....as pointed out by the Conn. announcer.  We as posters point out how Amherst is down this year....which is true at this point of the season.....and
not give credit to the Cardinals and Camels play.
I guess, I am trying to say that as followers of WBB, we may have a different set of criteria for WBB than for MBB.  Is it not possible that women games will have fewer blowouts as WBB teams pull closer in talent and coaching?
I have a few concerns about Amherst....but I will not post them here.  I will wait for the players and Coach G. to work them out as this year's team continue to improve...gain experience and discover its TEAM identity.

[Pat Coleman]

I think we may have a long way to go in those terms -- there are so many part-time head coaches in Division III women's basketball that it is ripe for blowouts. There's a wide spread of teams in terms of not only talent but time commitment to the program.

A coach once described it to me this way: At almost every Division III school with men's basketball, it's a featured program, taken very seriously. But it's not like that in women's basketball.

[bsc73]

I'm not sure what coach would make a statement like that but he/she is obviously not from New England. I'm not aware of any school in New England that has a full time men's coach and a part time women's coach. I'm also not aware of any school making their men's team the featured program. Is there a school that gives more money to their men's program, is there a school that gives more money to their men's program for recruiting, is there a school that hires more assistant coaches for their men's program? I believe the answer to those questions and any similar questions is no. If there are programs that are  favoring their men's program then shame on the women's coach.  The reason that there are more blowouts in women's basketball is simple: there are fewer good female basketball players then men. There are the same number of women's teams as men's (actually more) but fewer talented female players, thus more blowouts.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not sure what coach would make a statement like that but he/she is obviously not from New England. I'm not aware of any school in New England that has a full time men's coach and a part time women's coach. I'm also not aware of any school making their men's team the featured program. Is there a school that gives more money to their men's program, is there a school that gives more money to their men's program for recruiting, is there a school that hires more assistant coaches for their men's program? I believe the answer to those questions and any similar questions is no. If there are programs that are  favoring their men's program then shame on the women's coach.  The reason that there are more blowouts in women's basketball is simple: there are fewer good female basketball players then men. There are the same number of women's teams as men's (actually more) but fewer talented female players, thus more blowouts.

Maybe not in the NESCAC, but there are about 80 women's teams in New England. Not everyone is nearly as well-funded as a NESCAC school is.

I pulled up the U.S. Department of Education's athletics funding data site and I didn't have to go very far into the alphabet to find a school in New England that meets my definition: Albertus Magnus, where the men's coach is a full-time employee of the school and the women's coach is not.

If this link works, then click on Coaching Staff and Salaries from there.

Bridgewater State also met that criteria, as did others. I spot-checked non-NESCAC schools.

Your point is also correct, I believe, about there being fewer quality players to draw from, but it's not the only reason.

And I would shame the athletic directors and the people actually making the budget rather than a women's coach at an underfunded program. He or she likely does not have the power to force the school to make it a full-time position.

[amh63]

Amherst goes on another road trip tonight....to Long Island NY to meet Farmingdale State.  Amherst gets more offensive effort from the whole team and wins 72-48.  Scoring in double figures by M. Robertson, J. Hardy and M. Voigt.  Team had 3-point shots made by 4 players.  Team controlled the boards as expected over the shorter opponents.  Particulars to be posted on the Amherst website.  A surprise return from an experienced player.....Sally Marx entered the game after a long absence.  Good news to have more "depth" on the team.  One more road trip to meet Hamilton in Clinton NY on Friday.....then a long home stand of critical games.