WBB: NESCAC

[nescacbbrules]

I do not want to make it a debate because it is probably semantics.  But from 2009-2010 to 2012-2013 seasons I would argue they were untouchable, well above the rest of their league, that has so many good programs.

2009-2010  (32-1)  only loss in final four
2010-2011  (32-1)  National champs, one in season loss OOC to Kean
2011-2012  (31-2)  only two losses in final four
2013-2013  (30-3)  finally a loss reg season to Williams team that went to final four, and two final four losses

So,  that is total domination of the league.  They are not there any more.  That really is my point.  They are mortal again.  The were not during that stretch.

CasualFan2, I think your term, "total domination" suggests non-competitiveness. I might suggest that your case may be stronger from 09-12 where they won conference games by an average of 25 points each season, but was surely not the case for 2012-2103 where that margin dropped to 9 points and that loss to Williams was by 20. That season they beat Conn by 2 and Wes by 4, Tufts by only 6 and 5. They had a great run in the NCAA's but were not by any stretch what I would term dominant.  Tufts and Williams won their conference schedules (all three teams were 9-1) by an average of 18 and 20 points that season. The case can easily be made that Amherst was actually the third best NESCAC team that season but had Marcia Voigt. Williams beat them twice and Tufts lost two very tight games at LeFrak which I have described in other posts. Assuming your point, Tufts has won each of its last 26 NESCAC games (including tournaments), but they, like Amherst during those seasons, have had some relatively tight wins. In regular conference play, their average margins of victory have been 19 and 20 points for the last two seasons. Strong, surely. Dominant....?

[nescacbbrules]

In glancing at the NCAA brackets, I was a little surprised that neither the Amherst men nor the women will be hosting. For the LJ women, traveling to NYU to face an Eastern team that upset national champions FDU and defeated Williams and Cabrini will not be an easy opening game. With a win they would presumably have to face NYU who should be able to dispatch Virginia Wesleyan in the Coles Center. Bowdoin has to take on NEWMAC champion Babson in the first round, a team that upset Tufts last year. I like Ithaca to beat Mt. Saint Vincent, a 388 SOS squad, and the Bombers are a seasoned group as Tufts learned last year in a game that went to the last second at Cousens. Stevenson looks to be a tough out for Williams at Montclair State, and should they win, the Ephs will face the regionally top-ranked Red Hawks on their home floor. I am sure Stevenson and Montclair would not be looking forward to facing Williams the top SOS team in the nation. Tufts should be able to oust the first time NCAA team from Pine Manor, but then will probably face St John Fisher which upset Ithaca and Stevens to win the E-8 tournament. I think they will be strong in that game at home.
Should the Jumbos get through the first weekend, I hope and would like to expect that the NCAA will follow its recent pattern of allowing the top team remaining in the bracket to host the next round, i.e. Tufts by SOS. As it looks now, I think FDU, Scranton, and perhaps Cabrini will emerge from the first weekend. Sending them all to Medford would require more highway miles but not violate any 500 mile or home team minimums for regional games. Many hours of travel for that round to play your neighbor in a distant venue is par for the course.

[7express]

I think Tufts will easily hold that sectional, especially since Scranton just lost in the Landmark finals.

As for Tufts vs Pine Manor, Tufts should be the favorite but Pine Manor has nothing to lose.  I know its comparing apples to oranges, but 2 years ago USM went into the tourney 27-1 and played a team at home (smith) making its first NCAA appearance.  What happened that game??  USM got theirs doors blown off in a Smith rout.

[ronk]

In glancing at the NCAA brackets, I was a little surprised that neither the Amherst men nor the women will be hosting. For the LJ women, traveling to NYU to face an Eastern team that upset national champions FDU and defeated Williams and Cabrini will not be an easy opening game. With a win they would presumably have to face NYU who should be able to dispatch Virginia Wesleyan in the Coles Center. Bowdoin has to take on NEWMAC champion Babson in the first round, a team that upset Tufts last year. I like Ithaca to beat Mt. Saint Vincent, a 388 SOS squad, and the Bombers are a seasoned group as Tufts learned last year in a game that went to the last second at Cousens. Stevenson looks to be a tough out for Williams at Montclair State, and should they win, the Ephs will face the regionally top-ranked Red Hawks on their home floor. I am sure Stevenson and Montclair would not be looking forward to facing Williams the top SOS team in the nation. Tufts should be able to oust the first time NCAA team from Pine Manor, but then will probably face St John Fisher which upset Ithaca and Stevens to win the E-8 tournament. I think they will be strong in that game at home.
Should the Jumbos get through the first weekend, I hope and would like to expect that the NCAA will follow its recent pattern of allowing the top team remaining in the bracket to host the next round, i.e. Tufts by SOS. As it looks now, I think FDU, Scranton, and perhaps Cabrini will emerge from the first weekend. Sending them all to Medford would require more highway miles but not violate any 500 mile or home team minimums for regional games. Many hours of travel for that round to play your neighbor in a distant venue is par for the course.

Dave McHugh relayed my question on that exact topic to Dave Martin(women's chair) and Martin said the most deserving will get the sectional host and, by omission of a geography factor in his answer, I take that to mean that anything inside of the 500-mile barrier will not affect that choice. My own judgment is that it's foolish to send 2 teams 2 extra hours or more(pick your line in the sand) for winter time travel. It was hard to believe in 2009 that Muhlenberg was sent to Bowdoin(445 miles) for a regional pod(the approximate distance to Medford for Catholic if Catholic wins its regional).

[nescacbbrules]

Ronk, thanks. I heard the Hoopsville response to your question. As you know, the drive from the Lehigh Valley to Maine or from DC to Boston is not short, and the NCAA has done some interesting things to send teams on the road. The neighboring USM and Bowdoin teams had to drive over 400 miles each to play one another in Wilkes Barre at Kings College in the 2003 regional semifinal. Eastern Connecticut University only had to go 225 miles from Willimantic. 1060 miles in total for the three teams. But Saint Patrick's Day in a flooded Wilkes Barre was a treat.

[ronk]

Ronk, thanks. I heard the Hoopsville response to your question. As you know, the drive from the Lehigh Valley to Maine or from DC to Boston is not short, and the NCAA has done some interesting things to send teams on the road. The neighboring USM and Bowdoin teams had to drive over 400 miles each to play one another in Wilkes Barre at Kings College in the 2003 regional semifinal. Eastern Connecticut University only had to go 225 miles from Willimantic. 1060 miles in total for the three teams. But Saint Patrick's Day in a flooded Wilkes Barre was a treat.

I hear you-you don't want to penalize schools because they are outliers or reward the geographically-centered but there should be some common sense. I'm familiar with USM and Bowdoin campuses since playing them both in the 2005 NCAAs, i stopped by on a trip to Acadia a few summers ago. Wouldn't want to trudge from the Bowdoin dorms back to their gym on a cold Maine winter night. Good luck with Babson; they were a Scranton opponent this year in Puerto Rico but I didn't get to see any video on the game.

[just a fan 22]

When you're the third or fourth at-large bid from a region, you really can't complain about where you get put. Bowdoin was always going to host, and I would have been shocked if Amherst got to - they didn't deserve it.

The selection committee wants to minimize plane trips. So long as you are within 500 miles, they don't care if you're next door or 498 miles away.

[nescacbbrules]

I think Tufts will easily hold that sectional, especially since Scranton just lost in the Landmark finals.

As for Tufts vs Pine Manor, Tufts should be the favorite but Pine Manor has nothing to lose.  I know its comparing apples to oranges, but 2 years ago USM went into the tourney 27-1 and played a team at home (smith) making its first NCAA appearance.  What happened that game??  USM got theirs doors blown off in a Smith rout.

I know what you mean when you say that Pine Manor has nothing to lose. First round tournament games lend themselves to upsets because of that psychology. However, Pine Manor is the smallest of "Davids," a D-3 schools with only 213 students, a 9-9 D3 record and a 420th ranked strength of schedule (SOS).  By analogy, "Goliath" (Jumbo?), Tufts, at 26-1 has 5000 students and the nation's #2 SOS. So you are right in saying that the comparison is apples to oranges on two fronts. USM did not have a tough schedule that year, playing NESCAC teams that were down including Colby, who was 1-9, conference and only lost by 6. They were not battle tested. Smith, on the other, hand beat Middlebury by 33, Trinity by 21, and Williams by 4 AT Williamstown, so they not only had nothing to lose, but also had every confidence that they could play with USM. They were 22-4 going into that game. Pine Manor lost to Coast Guard by 56 early and is playing better now, but with no starters over 5'7", it will be a daunting challenge to match up with the Jumbos.   

[nescacbbrules]

All NESCAC conference teams and superlatives announced. Hayley Kanner of Tufts wins player of the year for the second time. Shannon Brady and Sara Binkhorst from Bowdoin are also first team selections, with Ellen Cook and Sam Graber rounding out the first team. North and Foley of Tufts make second squad along with Robertson and Doswell from Amherst and Wolfington from Colby. Mairead Hynes of Connecticut College is the rookie of the year, with Kate Kerrigan from Bowdoin and Cook the co-defensive players. Carla Berube is the top coach for a fifth time.

http://www.nescac.com/sports/wbkb/2014-15/honors/allconference

[Maine 1]

Saw the NESCAC all league team.  One of the things that I have noted over the years is that the NESCAC year-end awards are heavily slanted toward the top teams--which again is the case this season.  Of the 10 people named, Tufts has three, Amherst two, Bowdoin two, and Williams one--that is 8 out of 10.  There are some very good players on the other teams in the conference, but unless you are on a top team, it is very difficult to get all-league consideration in the NESCAC.  I think a perfect example of this in the current year is Robertson of Amherst.  She did not have an all-league season this year, by any measure. The first year from Conn College certainly should have been at least second team. 

Interesting that the NCAA has set up a potential Tufts-Scranton rematch in the bracket. 

[just a fan 22]

Are coaches instructed to only take the conference season into account? Because Robertson played a little more than a third of the season, and for the first part of that was only playing 15m a game off the bench.

She made second team all NESCAC on inertia and past accomplishments, in my opinion. Statistically, she certainly didn't deserve it based on her season.

[nescacbbrules]

I agree with each of your comments on inertia and past accomplishments and on the heavy weight that top teams carry on the all-star squads. Has it not always been thus? Hypothetically, I think the only way to get a real all-conference team might be to have the coaches draft their teams (and coach them) from the complete pool of players. Robertson was certainly a top tier player, but she, like many before her, has been unable to reach her prior form this season following her injury. That takes nothing away from her talent, effort, commitment, or leadership. As I mentioned in a prior post, I agree that another player, perhaps from Trinity, Bates, or Connecticut College, merited the slot based on their entire seasons.

The Scranton/Tufts matchup is likely to happen. NESCAC teams have met the Lady Royals with some regularity in the tournament, and I would expect this to be another great game. I doubt Tufts will shoot quite as abysmally if they meet this time, but I heard that that Meredith Mesaris impressed all who saw her. Tufts' twin towers would need to play strong.

[amh63]

In a strange weather day.....it seems the impact of snow, etc will impact the games in the mid-Atlantic and NYC more than NE.  Hoping that Amherst gets by Eastern to meet NYU....much purple in the last game? In the NYU gym for awhile.  Matchup better against NYU than Eastern, imo.  If Amherst plays up to their level of talent and capabilities....they will go deep in the post season.

[Maine 1]

Much too early to start talking about a Tufts/ Scranton game, but I saw Messaris play three years ago--outstanding player, and in a Tufts/ Scranton game, she would likely be the best player on the court.

[NE Jeffs Fan]

Just read the tournament prediction, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Megan Robertson was not on the 2011 Championship Amherst team.  Amherst did not win in 2012, but did make the Final Four in 2012 and 2013.  Will be interesting to see if she can put the team on her back and "will" the youngsters to win.  They are going to have to play better defense and take smarter, not panicky shots.  Hope all the NESCAC teams have a successful tourney!  Good luck!