WBB: NESCAC

[magicman]

Sweet 16 hosts are announced.

Bowdoin played tough to come from behind with a...HerCurlean effort...from Marle in Brunswick. Ithaca must feel jinxed.

Plus K for the "HerCurlean effort". I'll have to show that one to her dad. He'll get a kick out of that.

I was pretty sure that Montclair State was going to host the Sectional next weekend. And of course Bowdoin has to play the hosts on the first day. The good news is if they can win that matchup,  then the next game to get to the Final Four will be against Stockton or Amherst at a neutral site.

polbear73,

Thanks for bringing to my attention about the video on the Bowdoin website showing the highlights and interviews. Plus k for you as well.   

[magicman]

These were back to back posts from ronk and myself back in November of 2013 regarding 2 future starters on the Bowdoin Women's team. It would appear that Marle, now a sophomore and Katie, a freshman have helped bring Bowdoin back into the picture as a Top 25 progam.  The next few years could be exciting ones for the Polar Bears.   

Bowdoin has a solid new recruit this year in 5'8" guard Marle Curle. I think she could contribute to the Polar Bears right away. The daughter of a coach, she has a good feel for the game, can shoot the 3, and also drive to the hoop. Was often called upon to guard the other team's best and biggest player. She's the type of player that will only get better each year. Bowdoin will be happy she elected to go there.   

  I understand that Bowdoin has received a verbal from Katie Kerrigan(2014), someone I've seen be an impact player in an AAU game with D1 recruits. Looks like the Polar Bears will be back next year as a factor at the top 25 level.

[polbear73]

These were back to back posts from ronk and myself back in November of 2013 regarding 2 future starters on the Bowdoin Women's team. It would appear that Marle, now a sophomore and Katie, a freshman have helped bring Bowdoin back into the picture as a Top 25 progam.  The next few years could be exciting ones for the Polar Bears.   

Bowdoin has a solid new recruit this year in 5'8" guard Marle Curle. I think she could contribute to the Polar Bears right away. The daughter of a coach, she has a good feel for the game, can shoot the 3, and also drive to the hoop. Was often called upon to guard the other team's best and biggest player. She's the type of player that will only get better each year. Bowdoin will be happy she elected to go there.   

Correct on all levels! Hopefully they and the rest of the Polar Bears play well on Friday. They have a tough task ahead of them.

  I understand that Bowdoin has received a verbal from Katie Kerrigan(2014), someone I've seen be an impact player in an AAU game with D1 recruits. Looks like the Polar Bears will be back next year as a factor at the top 25 level.

[nescacbbrules]

I have no illusions that defeating Montclair State in NJ will be easy, but I think that Bowdoin's SOS (12) and the fact that they have only lost to Tufts since November argues that they are the second best NESCAC team and a very tough "out" in the tournament. Their defense is solid and their offense does not require big point production from any one player. Their team rebounding is very impressive and I think the odds of the Polar Bears pulling the upset are higher than Massey suggests (33%). I put it much closer to 50%. Massey suggests that Amherst is a heavy favorite over Salisbury, and I agree, but I find it hard to see how they favor the LJs (75%) versus Bowdoin. BTW, they favor Amherst over Montclair St if that final should occur. I hope and expect Tufts to step up their game after their squeaker with St. John Fisher. In any case, it should be a fun, competitive, and exciting weekend.

[ronk]

I have no illusions that defeating Montclair State in NJ will be easy, but I think that Bowdoin's SOS (12) and the fact that they have only lost to Tufts since November argues that they are the second best NESCAC team and a very tough "out" in the tournament. Their defense is solid and their offense does not require big point production from any one player. Their team rebounding is very impressive and I think the odds of the Polar Bears pulling the upset are higher than Massey suggests (33%). I put it much closer to 50%. Massey suggests that Amherst is a heavy favorite over Salisbury, and I agree, but I find it hard to see how they favor the LJs (75%) versus Bowdoin. BTW, they favor Amherst over Montclair St if that final should occur. I hope and expect Tufts to step up their game after their squeaker with St. John Fisher. In any case, it should be a fun, competitive, and exciting weekend.

   To beat Montclair, Bowdoin needs to defeat their full-court zone press and contain Melissa Tobie. Bowdoin may have the guards to do that. Amherst should be favored against Salisbury because their bigs could dominate. Salisbury's strength is their guard play. The coach, Kelly Lewandowski, did play in back-to-back Final 4s 10 years ago with Scranton, and they're familiar with   Montclair's gym, having played in their holiday tournament earlier in the year. 

[polbear73]

Since the loss to Roger Williams to open the season, I have tended to underrate Bowdoin throughout the season and I am happy to have been proven wrong. I too believe that Bowdoin has the guard play to beat the Montclair press and has a very good chance to upset a very good team. Also, while it is difficult to beat a very good team three times in a row, I still don't understand why Bowdoin is ranked lower and deemed to be an underdog to Amherst after beating them twice by a decent margin, granted once at home but also on a neutral court.Finally, while Coaches Berube and Gromacki have deserved all of their recent accolades, Adrienne Shibles also deserves to be in the same conversation.

Best of luck to the three NESCAC teams!

[amh63]

Thought to add several bits of info here...maybe of interest to ronk.
Amherst's opponent on Friday...Salisbury State... Has many local MD players.  One in particular is most interesting.  She is from the HS just a short walk from me.  She went to Virginia Wesleyan near Norfork to school....made all- conference in the ODAC twice.  Transferred to Salisbury and made All-conference for the "third" time.  A player that Amherst needs to stop....slow down.
Looking at Bowdoin's opponent...I agree with Ronk in that Montclair's center maybe the key.  Believe the Polar Bears have the guards to keep up with their opposites; but do not know how the front court will match up.
At this time of the year, while home court maybe a plus; imo, playing well on the road is a a nice "trait" to have.

[ronk]

Thought to add several bits of info here...maybe of interest to ronk.
Amherst's opponent on Friday...Salisbury State... Has many local MD players.  One in particular is most interesting. She is from the HS just a short walk from me.  She went to Virginia Wesleyan near Norfork to school....made all- conference in the ODAC twice.  Transferred to Salisbury and made All-conference for the "third" time.  A player that Amherst needs to stop....slow down.
Looking at Bowdoin's opponent...I agree with Ronk in that Montclair's center maybe the key.  Believe the Polar Bears have the guards to keep up with their opposites; but do not know how the front court will match up.
At this time of the year, while home court maybe a plus; imo, playing well on the road is a a nice "trait" to have.

Then we live < 10 miles apart. Saw her play a few times in high school through her rising senior summer; was more impressed with her teammates-sisters who are now playing for D1 Loyola. But then she made a leap forward(in my eyes) in play her senior season and by the time I recognized it, she had decided on Va. Wes. She has a motor and is proactive.
The PG is the opposite in temperament but strongly effective.   

[just a fan 22]

Since the loss to Roger Williams to open the season, I have tended to underrate Bowdoin throughout the season and I am happy to have been proven wrong. I too believe that Bowdoin has the guard play to beat the Montclair press and has a very good chance to upset a very good team. Also, while it is difficult to beat a very good team three times in a row, I still don't understand why Bowdoin is ranked lower and deemed to be an underdog to Amherst after beating them twice by a decent margin, granted once at home but also on a neutral court.

The national rankings are largely BS. None of the people with votes really have the time, means, or inclination to watch all the teams, so they're just going based on past history and what other people say. The relatively lack of inter-region play (as compared to Division I) also makes ranking teams relative to each other difficult to impossible.

I could see a team being ranked below a team they beat once, but after two relatively convincing wins against Amherst, Bowdoin really does deserve to be ranked above them. That should come via Amherst being dropped down to the 15-20th spot they deserve, and Bowdoin being bumped up a few places.

[magicman]

Since the loss to Roger Williams to open the season, I have tended to underrate Bowdoin throughout the season and I am happy to have been proven wrong. I too believe that Bowdoin has the guard play to beat the Montclair press and has a very good chance to upset a very good team. Also, while it is difficult to beat a very good team three times in a row, I still don't understand why Bowdoin is ranked lower and deemed to be an underdog to Amherst after beating them twice by a decent margin, granted once at home but also on a neutral court.

The national rankings are largely BS. None of the people with votes really have the time, means, or inclination to watch all the teams, so they're just going based on past history and what other people say. The relatively lack of inter-region play (as compared to Division I) also makes ranking teams relative to each other difficult to impossible.

I could see a team being ranked below a team they beat once, but after two relatively convincing wins against Amherst, Bowdoin really does deserve to be ranked above them. That should come via Amherst being dropped down to the 15-20th spot they deserve, and Bowdoin being bumped up a few places.

Well, since there is only one more Top 25 poll and that won't come out until after the NCAA tournament is all over, it will really depend on what happens this coming weekend. If Amherst wins their game and they are favored to do so, and Bowdoin loses their game and they are the underdogs against the host team, then Amherst will continue to be ranked above Bowdoin. If they both win, it will depend on the next game when they will play each other for the third time. If Amherst wins that game they will still be ranked ahead of Bowdoin. So Bowdoin may go past Amherst in the next poll if they both lose their next game, but I wouldn't bet on that happening. If Bowdoin wins their next game and Amherst loses then Bowdoin will probably be ranked higher. And of course if they do face each other a third time and Bowdoin wins then I'm sure they will be ranked higher than Amherst.

But I agree with you and polbear73, Bowdoin should have been ranked ahead of Amherst in the last poll after the Polar Bears beat them in the semis at Tufts.     

[Roundball999]

Since the loss to Roger Williams to open the season, I have tended to underrate Bowdoin throughout the season and I am happy to have been proven wrong. I too believe that Bowdoin has the guard play to beat the Montclair press and has a very good chance to upset a very good team. Also, while it is difficult to beat a very good team three times in a row, I still don't understand why Bowdoin is ranked lower and deemed to be an underdog to Amherst after beating them twice by a decent margin, granted once at home but also on a neutral court.

The national rankings are largely BS. None of the people with votes really have the time, means, or inclination to watch all the teams, so they're just going based on past history and what other people say. The relatively lack of inter-region play (as compared to Division I) also makes ranking teams relative to each other difficult to impossible.

I could see a team being ranked below a team they beat once, but after two relatively convincing wins against Amherst, Bowdoin really does deserve to be ranked above them. That should come via Amherst being dropped down to the 15-20th spot they deserve, and Bowdoin being bumped up a few places.

I understand the argument, but it seems based on the premise that head to head results should always be the determining factor in relative ranking.  I'm not sure I agree with that premise.  Some teams just don't match up ideally against another, even though they might be a better overall team.  I haven't seen enough of either Amherst or Bowdoin to have an opinion in the case of these two teams, but I did notice that Massey's purely statistical approach to rating shows Amherst with #32 SoS and Bowdoin with #71.  Amherst power rating is 0.85 #8 and Bowdoin is 0.66 #17.  Amherst also has a better overall record.  As Magicman points out, it will get sorted out in the next two weeks.  It's the ranking at the end that matters most

[amh63]

ronk.....maybe we can share a ride to a common interest game in the future!
Did not want to overlook the PG who is from Clarksburg, MD...about 10 plus miles up the road.  She was only the conference player of the year!...team leading scorer?  Salisbury did play Monclair State in an away game earlier in the year. Not relevant now since both teams have grown, imo.

For those who think about the rankings now....you cannot have it both ways. The important factor is to win and advance.  The Final Poll by D3 hoops... Yes the pollsters that one questioned earlier...will only in the end, IMO, provide data to be used for next season's pre- season rankings...and those will be challenged as the season progresses by posters...again.

[Maine 1]

At this point, the discussion about whether Bowdoin should be ranked above Amherst is a bit academic.  For what it is worth, after too early losses, Bowdoin is undefeated against everyone but Tufts--and that includes two wins over Amherst, both relatively easy wins. I don't think there is any question that Bowdoin is a better team than Amherst. However, Bowdoin also got a tougher draw in the tournament, having to face MontClaire first.  I would not be surprised to see a Bowdoin/Amherst rematch in the regional final.

[polbear73]

At this point, the discussion about whether Bowdoin should be ranked above Amherst is a bit academic.  For what it is worth, after too early losses, Bowdoin is undefeated against everyone but Tufts--and that includes two wins over Amherst, both relatively easy wins. I don't think there is any question that Bowdoin is a better team than Amherst. However, Bowdoin also got a tougher draw in the tournament, having to face MontClaire first.  I would not be surprised to see a Bowdoin/Amherst rematch in the regional final.

I am in complete agreement that the Bowdoin-Amherst ranking discussions are a bit academic at this point. I only brought it up under the assumption that the NCAA seeded Amherst higher, the result being a more difficult draw for Bowdoin. I also understand that other factors go into the bracketing.

The nice thing is that the teams can play this out on the floor. Looking forward to an exciting weekend.

[Hoopsinfo]

Sad to say that I agree that if Bowdoin and Amherst end up meeting again, Bowdoin is likely to win a third time unless the Amherst coach is able to change his strategy (if needed) and really take advantage of his talented inside players.  In my opinion (and yes I have said this before) it's not that Amherst is a less talented team – it's about the coaching.  In the last Bowdoin game, we shot 26 3s - Bowdoin only shot 7. We never adjusted. The coaches that oppose Amherst design their strategy around Amherst depending on the 3 shot. The strategy against Eastern worked well last Friday because Amherst ran, worked the inside and wasn't just heaving 3s. You could see it in the stats. I believe Amherst beat Bowdoin at the end of the season last year, even without Robertson. They can do it again (if given the chance) but need to change strategy and take advantage of our fast breaks and inside players.