WBB: NESCAC

[nescac hoops]

i've seen amherst - they are much improved from last year. why #13 (pollack) doesn't start is beyond me. i can see coaches wanting a "spark" off the bench, but she is more than a spark. she is their best player. at the very least, she should pay more minutes. as a williams fan, i suppose it's  fine with me

ill take bowdoin by 10 in a close game that doesn't look as close in the newspaper due to fouling at the end. amherst won't have answers for flaherty underneath.

i hope the ephs have a relatively easy time with the panthers, as i expect they will.

i will be very interested to see the wesleyan/bates score tonight. ill predict the bobcats will win a close one at home.

[nescac hoops]

i will be very interested to see the wesleyan/bates score tonight. ill predict the bobcats will win a close one at home.

bates 59, wesleyan 56. i'm going to vegas.

whoarewebobcats and feces,
i know you love barton. i, on the other hand, find her overrated. last night she had 6 assists...and 7 turnovers. her assist/turnover ratio is slowly approaching 1:1, which is unacceptable for a point guard (she is 4th in the league for nescac PGs) and completely unacceptable for a PG who had reeived all american nominations. i'm sure not having coffin around puts a lot of pressure on her to create things. however, i have always felt this way about her, even when she had zurek and coffin. she'll throw a really nice no-look pass or two and everybody ooooh's and awwww's - but they miss the part when she then throws 3 more no-look passes into the 6th row in alumni (which is the last row there). thoughts?

[bbald eagle]

nescac hoops-
monkeys been silent lately. I'm betting monkey can't reply to your questions. I'm betting he's been banned from posting - see below

My ax has been worn down to a nub, and the solicitation of votes by ATN has figuratively snapped the handle. I officially give up trying to legitimize your poll. I do, however, appreciate the gender neutrality in your post. Quite progressive.

Just shut up. It was an exercise in getting people to actually post on the damn board. Some people we don't need to have post on the board. You're one of them.

[JeffRookie2]

Today's game between Amherst and Bowdoin at LeFrak will be webcast by WAMH. You can listen at www.amherst.edu/~wamh.

[whoarewebobcats]

first of all, it would be a shame if feces had been banned...they were saying anything inappropriate, they just disagreed with someone and had a little attitude about it. everyone needs to chill out.

I certainly understand the criticisms of Sarah. Naturally, I disagree, and I can't refute the stats you bring forward. She's the kind of player that if you have, you can't imagine the team without, and if you don't have, you can't imagine why you'd want her, in some way, because the entire team's look changes because of her style (the only other person I've described like this is Antoine Walker--I couldn't believe the Celts could ever unload him because he was such a weird player, and I couldn't imagine them without him either. Then again, I hated Antoine, so maybe I shouldn't be admitting this comparison). One thing I'll say for the TO's--Sarah handles the ball a lot. I know most PGs do, but I think she probably has more touches a game than any player on any team. Watch their possessions, the ball often goes through Sarah about 4 times, which could lead to more TOs. Obviously, this theoretically should lead to more assists/shots/etc., so maybe that's not fair. But, that's how I justify the turnovers--I hate turnovers, normally. To me, it's worth all the stuff Sarah does for the team. I think the threat of her creativity/passing ability is just as important as her actually executing that ability. Defenses have to completely change what they do--this happens in the first half of almost all of Bates' games--to combat Sarah, figuring out how much room they can give their defenders and so forth. She has an outstanding basketball IQ, and makes things possible that most players can't. At the expense of executing that IQ and making those things possible, she turns the ball over.

Over her career, her defense has improved markedly, as has her shot, particularly from 3 (I'm not looking at stats, maybe the stats don't reflect it but she has hit many big 3s for that team over recent years). As I've mentioned before, both in conjunction with Sarah and just in our conversation from earlier this week, after opening her career playing with girls who always knew where to be and where all their teammates were (Heather, Olivia, Betsy), Sarah was really able to showcase her skills. With another outstanding ballhandler in the backcourt (Heather), the defensive pressure wasn't as high on Sarah, either. So to some observers, she may have declined, or may now seem overrated after coming out so strong her frosh year. She certainly has made more mistakes and more plays as she becomes more of a feature of the offense (obviously), so if you like her or hate her, that feeling will probably become magnified. She's not a terribly vocal leader (or really vocal at all), which is probably a knock against her as a PG, and Murphy gets more irritated with her than anyone else (especially in big games, Murphy often pulls her out about two minutes in, whether she deserves it or not, just to keep her from taking too many chances). But, you'll notice that, much like Zak for the boys, Sarah plays almost the entire game pretty much every game, and when she's out they don't play as well. They don't keep a +/- stat, as far as I know, so I can't back that up, and given my obvious bias I may be wrong.

In sum, there's nothing I can say, really, to change your mind. She has her weaknesses, and has her strengths. Her TOs are obviously frighteningly high, but I've found a way to excuse it. She's valuable in a way beyond the box score (much like I think Zak is to the boys), and I think when paired with another good ballhandler--much the reason that I call for more Kellie Goodridge--I think she is that much better. That's why when I looked forward to next year, if Meg were to return, she could have the formidable front court of Val, Meg, and Matia, which would rival the frontcourt she played with her frosh year, and Kellie, who to me resembles Heather Taylor in every way, game, look, attitude, etc., I have high hopes for the team.

[papabear]

All this chatter about Barton, but no speculation about the usually hyped up Bowdoin v Bates game. It is evident that the game will not be that close but if Barton is all that is said it could be close. Predictions ?? Also baring an unforseen incident Bowdoin's Flaherty will break the scoring record tomorrow. Lets hope for a competitive game in a place Bates usually pulls some miracles.

[whoarewebobcats]

I've seen the Bates girls several times this year (5 or so?) and I would be very surprised it we could hang with Bowdoin. Matia isn't really a dominant force, she's a great frontline complement to Meg, but without Meg I don't think Matia can do as much--she gets bottled up, shoots too many shots from outside, and the rebounding suffers. Val has really emerged this year, which is great, but I wonder whether she's the caliber player to lead Bates against such a tough team. They basically all need to play out of their minds, and hopefully a large faction of Bates people shows up in the stands like they did for the boys. As always, I'd like to see Kellie Goodridge and Lauren play more, which probably depends on whether Teal is healthy (I haven't heard anything but I know she missed a couple of games--anyone have any info?) and also whether they trust the frosh (Maybe Murphy tightens the reigns and only plays the vets since it's Bowdoin). I expect Bowdoin to jump out early and have Bates keep the lead to 8-12 all game, struggling to stay in it. Granted, I haven't seen Bowdoin this year, but I don't think I have to to expect them to be good.

[Pat Coleman]

There's talk this game might have an audio broadcast tonight. Check our Scoreboard page later for a link if there is one.

[D3Cast]

Yes, it's the 2007 debut of BatesCast at www.batescast.com. Enjoy!

[whoarewebobcats]

To no surprise, Bowdoin wins, 58-50. BatesCast guys did a great job, I caught the second half and felt like I was right there (though, one note--they shouldn't be referred to as the Lady Bobcats at any point, most schools have purposefully removed "lady" from the women's team's names, many didn't have it to begin with). Matia hurt her ankle with a few minutes left and Bowdoin pulled away from there. My crew informed me that Matia was walking, with help, after the game, so maybe it isn't too bad. Sounds like the refereeing was a little inconsistent, but of course Bowdoin is the better team. Sounds like a valiant effort on Bates' part, which is encouraging.

[frank uible]

Of course, Bobcat Broads has a better, and also alliterative, ring to it than Lady Bobcats.

[papabear]

Bowdoin wins Flaherty sets record and again Cummings out plays Barton. 5 assists 1 Turnover to Bartons 7 and 5. Why is she not getting consideration as the best point guard?? I do not need to let you know I am a Bowdoin alum, but the numbers speak for themselves....

[remsleep]

Bowdoin wins Flaherty sets record and again Cummings out plays Barton. 5 assists 1 Turnover to Bartons 7 and 5. Why is she not getting consideration as the best point guard?? I do not need to let you know I am a Bowdoin alum, but the numbers speak for themselves....

I really do not want to come across as disrespectul to Katie Cummings or any other player, but Papabear, please,  this is a case where the numbers really do lie.  There is simply no comparison between Barton and Cummings.  Barton is a far superior player - no one could reasonably argue otherwise.  Having said that, Cummings is the perfect fit on the Bowdoin team because she plays very hard, doesn't lose her cool and knows how to play within a team framework which includes a lot of talented teammates.  If she were asked to do what Barton is asked to do it wouldn't be pretty.

[nescac hoops]

i would not go as far to say that cummings is better than barton - they play on very different teams that having very different players surrounding them. however, i do not think that papabear's statement is too absurd. i have said numerous times that barton is WAY OVERRATED. yes, she can make some nice passes and she single handedly changes the way opponents have to defend bates. however, her speed, shooting percentage, defense, and no look passes that hit observers (which is approaching half now -- 1:1 assist/turnover ratio) leaves something to be desired in a supposed all conference, all american nominee point guard.

[whoarewebobcats]

As for the stats, I feel the need to intervene a bit (though I've already written extensively that to me, Sarah's value is beyond what the box score shows)--yes, Cummings A-TO ratio is better, at 4:1. Barton's isn't "approaching" 1:1--it's not getting worse, it's at 1.5:1, which obviously isn't great, but I've already made my case for the TO numbers. Bowdoin is so well-balanced that Cummings is the 7th highest scorer on the team and plays 27 minutes. Sarah is Bates' third-highest scorer (and shoots 35% not great, but better than Cummings' 31%) while playing 35 mins a game (I'd be curious to see how many players play more than Barton). Her speed is below-avg. for a PG, but her size is above-average. This kind of argument doesn't do a whole lot for me anyway--I agree with whoever said that it's not even really a fair comparison based on what their teams ask of them--but I just wanted to put some of those stats out there.