WBB: NESCAC

[quicksilver]

Amh and Sumfun,

Thanks very much for the information.  One more set of questions:  How does being a recruited athlete affect the player's likelihood of acceptance to the school?  I know that, in some NESCAC sports, there is a tip system, at least at some schools.  Under this system, the coach is given a certain limited number of "tips" per year - say 2 or 3 - which can be used to gain the admission of a player who is near the prevailing academic standards but otherwise would not be admitted.  In addition, the coach can put any number of players on a list and tell the admissions department, if these players are within the large mass of qualified applicants, please admit them because I see them as players on my team.  And the admissions department generally honors such requests.

Is this anything close to how it works in NESCAC women's bball?

Thanks,

Bad Knees

Yes -- that is basically how it works except that there are also levels of tips--A-,B-, and C-band tips--with C-band tips reserved for applicants who fall toward the bottom of the school's range of acceptability on SATs and GPAs (roughly 1800-1900 SATs and B students). C-band tips are few in number per school (something like 10/year with 4 reserved for football) so most tipped athletes are A- or B-band recruits, meaning that there academic credentials are stronger than C-band recruits.

Exactly how many tips are doled out to each team varies from year to year and from school to school and will be affected by things like the needs of particular teams (do we need a goalie for the hockey team or a QB for the fball team, etc.) and the sport's relative priority. Total number of tips vary from school to school with some in the low 70s and others in the low 60s and something like 14 reserved for football. And of course the SAT and GPA associated with each band vary from school to school too. "Protects" are athletes whose academics qualifications are in the middle to high-range of acceptability for the school and would be likely candidates for admission even if they were not athletes -- they are in addition to the 60-70 tips.

[kate]

Good grief, never too old to learn something about these college sports that i hold so near & dear to my heart.  What  was that term "unique" something or other.   Will they be able to tell their grandchildren, "I was admitted to wherever on a tip"?  As i said "never too old" 

[ronk]

  Does this mean that the coach may lobby the admissions office, but not the financial aid office? Where's the line drawn in D3?

[bad knees]

Many people say that D-III schools will find scholarship money for athletes even though there are no athletic scholarships available.  My impression is that this is not true in the NESCAC.  My understanding is that all aid at all NESCAC schools is based on need, and that the coach has no impact on that process.  Maybe others have a different understanding.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Many people say that D-III schools will find scholarship money for athletes even though there are no athletic scholarships available.  My impression is that this is not true in the NESCAC.  My understanding is that all aid at all NESCAC schools is based on need, and that the coach has no impact on that process.  Maybe others have a different understanding.

From my current understanding (and from when I applied to a few NESCAC schools many moons ago), coaches had no influence on finaid -- strictly need-based in the NESCAC.

[amh63]

Bad knees.......All NESCAC schools, like the ivies, do not have athletic related financial aid.  Most, if not all, admit their students "need blind".....an expression that simply means that an applicant is judged and admitted based on many things....but need for faid is not considered in the admission process.  The financial aid needs of a student is looked at only after the applicant is admitted. You need to look at the individual schools websites to see the particulars wrt to financial aid.
Having said that....the ability of conference schools to package financial aid to meet one's need will vary however....as the cost of attending varies a bit between schools.  Amherst has a policy that it does not want its admitted students to have to take out loans during their 4-years and thereby increases the "scholarships".  A number of other NESCAC schools have such polices, I believe.  This may be different for schools in other conferences such as the UAA.

[quicksilver]

  Does this mean that the coach may lobby the admissions office, but not the financial aid office? Where's the line drawn in D3?

It's more than lobbying of the admissions office. At many NESCACs, the applicant's qualifications are submitted to the admissions office by the coach before the student submits his or her application, with the application effectively pre-approved through these informal exchanges. Through this process, the coach knows that if he or seh uses a tip on applicant x, applicant x will be admitted. This is why tips are used primarily in the early decision process: the coach knows the applicant will be admitted and that the applicant will attend the school.

[ronk]

  That makes sense, because nearly all of the lower D1-capable players I've seen last year and this year have verballed their decision by the November NCAA signing date. The rise of AAU ball has advanced decisions by several months the last few years. Only one made her choice during her high school season.

[bad knees]

amh - The point I was trying to make is that the NESCAC is different from much of DIII.  There are no athletic scholarships anywhere in DIII, but the accepted wisdom is that many DIII schools will find ways to get athletes money, through various types of merit scholarships.  I agree that, in the NESCAC, aid is based entirely on need.

[Wydown Blvd.]

amh - The point I was trying to make is that the NESCAC is different from much of DIII.  There are no athletic scholarships anywhere in DIII, but the accepted wisdom is that many DIII schools will find ways to get athletes money, through various types of merit scholarships.  I agree that, in the NESCAC, aid is based entirely on need.

Correct... To me, that is one of the distinct differences in recruiting for the NESCAC/Ivy League and the UAA. The UAA offers both need-based and merit aid.

[bad knees]

Just realized that Kate's comment was aimed at me and my reference to the challenge that NESCAC coaches have in finding women's bball players who have the "unique profile" that NESCAC schools require.  Kate, I'm not sure what you find objectionable with my shorthand reference to the substantially-above-average academic requirements for admission to most of the NESCAC schools.  Perhaps you could enlighten us.  Also, I am not sure what you find distasteful about the tip process.  Getting admitted may not be much of an issue in the MAC, but it is a very difficult and challenging process for anyone who wants to go Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Tufts, etc.  Those schools have to turn down many outstanding applicants who are academically qualified to attend the school.  Using one's achievements in athletics to make one's application stand out among the many applications that meet the school's standards seems to me to be something to be proud of, not ashamed of. 

[kate]

Hello bad knees - I am a TOTAL diversity person, and have always felt that a person learns nothing if they can't associate with ALL kinds of people.  This is especially important, i feel as they go through their college years.  If they play basketball, fine - if they don't that's O.K., too, and believe me, i LIVE for b'ball season.  I'm thrilled that Amherst won the championship last year.  A very close relative attends the school.  Regardless of who get in where, it's what they do with their lives after they've graduated, and even more important how they treat everyone with whom they come in contact.  If indeed, they're that wonderful, they will play b'ball &  be top-notch students.  A big world out there awaits them

[bad knees]

Kate,

I agree with all you have said, but I don't think that anything I have said is inconsistent.  Putting financial issues aside, a young person should choose his or her college based on academics and the overall experience, including especially the people at the school.  Athletics may or may not work out, and no DIII athlete should choose a school based on a coach or a program.  Having a diploma from a prestigious university may open some doors, but what matters most in the end is what happens when you walk through whatever door you choose.

bad knees

[kate]

Hello, again, bad knees!  I never felt that you were inconsistent - at all.   Thank you for responding so quickly.  Also, good luck to your daughter wherever she decides to attend.   Incidentally, the MAC, in my humble opinion needs no defense - 100 years and going strong despite several departures of late.   Right now, i'm getting ready to watch my Phillies play one of their two final regular season games at CBP, so i gotta run.  It's been very interesting talking to you.

[kate]

Good morning, bad knees.  That will teach me to run out on a conversation for a Phillies game  .   They have been pathetic, but that's a line for another board.  Some day, i would hope to meet you and explain how i truly feel about sport's leagues segregated by "like-minded" ideas.   Certainly wouldn't mind a good consortium of colleges & universities to work on global warming, or crop growth, or wind power.  Can see leagues, for athletics, reconfiguring for distance, or if a school suddenly swelled in population, or dwindled, but just  can't figure out the like minded philosophy for sports.  Anyway, it has been interesting talking to you.  PS, we also have a niece who graduated years ago from Hope, so we sort of cover the bases.   I will always be an Aggie Fan, and my personal slogan for the school has always been - Delaware Valley College - We are Outstanding in our Fields    Friends in sports - Kate