WBB: NESCAC

[amh63]

Amherst wins over  Middlebury 79-41 in LeFrak.  Everyone on the Amherst team got a workout.  Amherst started the game with 4 FY players and a sophmore captain.  Brought in more experienced players  later to give lift and energy.  Played tough man to man and some zone.  FY center Boyette had extensive time on the floor.  She is big and mobile.  Needs more PT in her adjustment to good college BB, IMO.  Good win for the team. 

[d3wbbfan]

Amh63, Coach Gromacki made the one final lineup tweak that I expected today. He elevated M Doswell to starter, and restored Holness back to her pre-Robertson injury, 7th man role. Which she's perfect at. The team has now 100% adjusted to life without Megan. I wish for her a full recovery next season. But this Amherst post-season is what I'm calling "Marley and the Miracles". GP rarely ever shows his hand. But he recently had do just that, up at Bowdoin - twice - because he had to have that key NESCAC win. By sitting a healthy Pritchard for the last 17 minutes, in favor of Renner at the point, with M Doswell/Holness as his only subs. I don't know if another HC in America would've sat his SO, co-captain PG, who was basically his only experienced player, in that same situation. But it was clearly the right move. Renner's already a highly skilled PG, as is Cheyenne, but Jaimie still provides solid offense from there, which allowed GP to sub in more O for Pritchard. I believe it will happen again, when absolutely necessary.

For me, the other GP-goes-pedal-to-the-metal tip is Zwecker's PT. She played less than 1 minute vs. Bowdoin. Again, that was the perfect move that day. Haley almost always plays double digit minutes. But her overall skill ceiling is just a bit lower than the other 7 Jeffs who played. GP wins more than anybody else because he not only knows his players, and their individual talents, but he's then willing to shorten his already short rotation, even down to 6 1/2 or 7, to help his team win, when a situation dictates. To their credit, every one of his players know that it's nothing personal. The objective is to win the game.

To me, Marley Giddins is the key to the Jeffs. By now, all four key freshman are plenty battle-tested, and are more than ready to make a deep NCAA run, regardless of "FY" being slathered all over GP's roster, and no Robertson. Her loss didn't kill Amherst, so it made them stronger. It might be the best coaching job I've ever seen. Of late, when Holness is sitting, GP's been playing Peterson at post on D. As usual, that's the move. All this moving around is hurting Hannah's 3-pt % of late, but all it takes is one. The truth: all shooters are somewhat streaky. Besides, she's logged an absolute ton of minutes for them this year.

As a loyal Tufts fan, I know that my earlier, long Tufts post was atypical. In it I addressed some concerns I had, within a wildly successful WBB program. I appreciate those who understood my comments were 0% personal, about either Coach Berube, or any of her players. As people, I couldn't possibly have any more respect for all of them than I do. Going 10-0 in the NESCAC is an incredible achievement. And I am thrilled both by it, and for it. But isn't that what "family" does, when we care? Make a suggestion or two, that might help? While being logical, and based on facts I'd learned from multiple, successful college HC's, while meaning no harm at all to Tufts?

I did watch the Tufts loss to Babson. While some write it off to a Hamilton/Williams 2-0 NESCAC road trip hangover, I somewhat disagree. Because I've seen that exact same half by the Jumbos this season. Also at Cousens. First half, vs. Conn College, non-NESCAC game, right before holiday break. And Coach Berube got them going at halftime. It happened because both Foley and Moynihan were ice cold from 3. Also, this year's team doesn't execute in the half court set as well as last year's team did. Tufts then becomes surprisingly vulnerable on O. Because it exposes a normally-hidden, Tufts weakness: they normally play a perfectly designed, prototypical power forward (Hayley Kanner) out of position - at center. Last year, they had absolutely no choice. Hayley is 6'2", and she was their only 6-footer. But Kanner is a deadly shooter from 12 feet, loves playing facing the basket, and strongly dislikes physical contact. (A very common trait in WBB, and is obvious, just by watching.) Kanner's missed a ton of layups this season, even when the Jumbos 3-ptrs are dropping. But when cool Jumbo shooting allows an opposing D to start collapsing down low (as it did with well-coached CC & Babson teams), Kanner then gets even less room to work, and has even more trouble. That's why I so fervently championed North, in a previous e-mail. She's a natural 5, looks 6"3" to me, loves playing back to the basket, doesn't mind contact at all, makes her lay-ups, and, most importantly, would allow Kanner to move to her natural 4 position. But Coach Berube remains extremely committed to a 80%+ either/or player scenario, as to having Kanner and North on the floor separately. It is likely way too late to get them used to playing many minutes together now. (The two surely go against each other in practice every day.) And that's a shame. Doesn't mean I'm still not 100% behind the Jumbos. But I just know that Coach Gromacki's team won't be far away. And even the fact that it's gonna be played at Cousens isn't giving me a real confident, warm fuzzy feeling right now. Good health and good luck to all teams! 

                                                                                                             

[amh63]

d3wbbfan.....enjoyed your post.  Very good points and analyses on Amherst and Tufts.  Lots for me to consider and digest.  +Karma to you.  Do differ with you on several players and observations. 
Am still enjoying the win over Middlebury on the MBB side so will wait another time to "talk" to you.

Will say that I was surprised at the offensive outburst of the Jumbos in their win over a solid Polar Bear team.  Was not surprised by the play of the Ephs this weekend.

[d3wbbfan]

Many thanks, amh63. You've seen far more Amherst WBB than I. I hold your LJ opinions in very high regard, and will likely default to you on your own team's abilities. I enjoy it when folks don't always talk about "their" team, but will opine on other contenders as well. So I welcome your take on the Jumbos. (And I heartily concur with you, as to the Ephs' rough weekend being no surprise. Although I can't imagine the Polar Bears are exactly thrilled that Williams fell all the way to 6th, ending up as Bowdoin's QF opponent, however.)

Amh63, I know how much you enjoy the all-around game of "your All-American", as you like to refer to her as - Megan Robertson. I hope I made it clear that nothing Coach can come up with, post-injury, could ever replace her amazingly high level of play. A huge void remains. All your team can do now is to move forward with who's left. To me, watching GP's offense operate is a thing of beauty. For his current squad, the 5-out, high post weave he's been using a lot puts constant stress on opponents' D to stop repeated, potential dribble drives, each trip down. Which then opens up multiple, clean looks from 3. Yeah, Tufts and Williams' D historically get all the accolades. But most of these Jeff FY's are long, quick and very well-schooled on D. And they all possess 3 more years of eligibility. Yikes!

There are several other areas, re Tufts, that I believe can be exploited by GP. That I haven't shared on here. And if a huckleberry like me can notice these things, I don't imagine it'll escape the mind of your coach, either. Hence my Tufts post-season concerns....

[Maine 1]

I was not totally surprised with Conn College beating Williams last week. Also, Tufts looked bad against Babson, and looked bad against a poor Colby team for most of that game.  They found their offense against Bowdoin.
I would expect Amherst and Tufts to win easily this weekend, so that the one and two seed should advance.  Bowdoin has a tough draw with Williams, but it is at Bowdoin. I expect Bowdoin to hold on and make it to the finals.  Conn College and Trinity is a close match up that could go either way.  I would not be surprised if Conn Colege wins. Either of those teams will give Tufts a battle in the finals, and the Bowdoin-Williams winner will give Amherst a tough game.  The final four should be an excellent Saturday afternoon of basketball. It will be interesting to see how many teams get into the NCAA tournament. Amherst and Tufts are likely locks at this point, but all other teams probably have to win at least one game, if not two , to get in.

[amh63]

Maine.....nice clear assessment of the games ahead.  Thanks.  First glance, I will agreed with you....but admit, I have to do some more homework.  Conn College is the team that I feel has been under the radar.  Was more worried about them than say Bowdoin.  Trinity is another team that requires a look, imo.  Williams, a puzzle to figure out.  With Meg Robertson, the win over Williams was a cakewalk, in LeFrak...of course.  In Chandler, the game was still winnable with out Meg.  Game tied and Amherst with the ball with about 20 seconds to go.  Of course, Williams was also missing one of their best player...as pointed out by a Williams poster.  However, in the  recent games  I checked in on, The Williams team seems to depend on their star player, Cook. individual abilities too much, imo.  Seems that her team mates often defer to her too much.  Sometimes games are won that way, often more than likely it does not work against good teams.  I will admit here that I'm not an fan of the Williams HBC as a coach, period.  Regardless of my Amherst bias.
Lots of talent on the Williams team over the years....results over those years do not do justice to the talent level is where I am coming from.
Anyway, looking forward to the weekend.

[amh63]

d3wbbfan....as promised this is my "talk/conversation" with you....sharing some thoughts on the Amherst team...my opinions only...the coach and various other things to give you a sense of where I'm coming from.
First, I am not as knowledgeable as you have shown to be with the "technical aspects" of BB and possible coach's view.  I have learned as I go...playing a little....and watching BB at all levels and WBB because of UCONN  and their coach.  I did not know what you call a 5-out flex weave formation.  I just know that when Amherst exercise it, it bothers me me with the FYs.  My reason is what I call "decision" making wrt players.  It should come up often when I talk about different players and my assessment of them...that may differ with yours .   I will digress here to talk about D3 coaches....a little and about me and the Amherst WBB team over the years.....you pointed out my view with Meg Robertson.  Hopefully it will explain some things.
My wife and I went to UCONN...she for 4 years as an undergrad...me for two years as a grad student.  My best man and I  have followed UCONN BB for many years....in particular the women's team.  When I go up to watch football and MBB games....and therefore WBB games at Amherst, etc.,
I more than not stay with my best man in East Lyme Ct. area.  A number of years ago, there was a woman player from Norwich that went up to Amherst.  My friend noted that her father was a former MBB player from UCONN... We were hooked into watching more conference WBB games..consistently.  Last season, we went up to Amherst to watch the Tufts vs Amherst WBB game...2nd one in the tournament...in LeFrak when D3hoops Pat C. was up with his crew to broadcast the game.  It was fun, in part because one of my sons and his wife joined us for the games.....there was also a men's game with Tufts.  The primary reason was the Tuft's WBB coach...my friend remembers her at UCONN and all that stuff.  I enjoy watching games against Tufts since my grad school days at MIT....yes more schooling....wife and I enjoyed a restaurant in Melford then.
In my last post, I posted briefly my opinion on the Williams coach.  Maybe a little harsh.  Before the present Amherst Coach G....as I refer to him....like Coach K. for the MBB coach at Duke, that I also admire....the coach...who is still at Amherst..was not cut out for the position....he was a former football player and an asst. football coach at Amherst. There was talent coming to Amherst for the WBB team but the team never was really successful.  One talented player transferred to Bowdoin to play and became an all conference player there....hope you get the picture.  It upsets me to see talented players never achieve their potential.  Injuries and putting school work first, I can understand.  Enough said on that....the reason for my remark.
With respect to Meg....I have followed her closely since her FY when she won ROY in the conference.  I remember talking to her grandparents at her games...yes, I get too close to players at times via their parents, etc.  In the Williams
game in LeFrak, I met Meg's father for the first time...as well as the Doswell twins parents, etc.  We sort of bonded since he graduated from MIT and works there.  He told me something about Meg's recruitment by Coach G.  which cleared up some things for me.  Yes, you are quite correct that Coach G. knows his players and when to push them for their development and for the team....and for his wins.
I will shorten this post and talk about several players....really the PG position players.  Cheyenne Pritchard is better off at the off-guard position.  She plays tough defense and is needed for her leadership abilities.  She actually has a good outside shot, but often does not take them...partly because she has to handle the ball too much,imo.  She still is learning the critical area that I call ...making the right or best decisions during a game.  Taking a open shot instead of making a pass to another which ends up in a turnover.  Last season, she came in when the two senior guards needed a rest.  Likewise, Haley Zwecker came in and played great in many games...became a fan favorite...mine too.  She can dribble and drive to the hoop.  She actually has a fine outside shot.  This year,  she does not clearly know her role on the team.  She comes in as the PG and tries to distribute the ball...fine...but gives up the open look and dribbles too much...around.... looking for the open player to pass to and often there is a TO.  In the last game she found her way into the lane and scored well...at the right time utilizing her skills.  I noticed during foul shots by the team...she now goes over to talk to the assistant coach for instructions.  That is also something new this year.  While Coach G. is asserting himself more during games this year.. giving instructions during the flow of the game....he is deffering more to his prime assistant.  The guard coach?
In closing, the critical area in using so many FYs , imho, is how well their decision making is coming along.  Especially in close games.  You state that you like the player movement used by Coach G....especially the weave.  I do too, but I sometimes get tense in close games when I think that a player makes a pass off when she shouldn't...doing it by rote and not seeing that the situation has changed....a steal results because the defensive player has broken through.  Wrong decision at the time.  Smart players will learn quickly.

[jumpshot]

amh63 ----

Your lack of qualifications to judge coaches is exceeded only by the out-of-bounds nature of your comments. Suggest you review the post-game interview following Williams women's victory over amherst at last year's Final Four or this year's loss by amherst in Chandler. One's own self-acceptance is not enhanced by harsh remarks about someone to whom you've probably never spoken.

[remsleep]

amh63 ----

Your lack of qualifications to judge coaches is exceeded only by the out-of-bounds nature of your comments. Suggest you review the post-game interview following Williams women's victory over amherst at last year's Final Four or this year's loss by amherst in Chandler. One's own self-acceptance is not enhanced by harsh remarks about someone to whom you've probably never spoken.

Jumpshot....Please, your lack of understanding is exceeded only by your judgement.  If you want to get get personal, let us go off line and off the board.  Thank you.

Can someone find Huge Nerd so he can bring some sensibility back to this board?   Amh63 and Jumpshot---I propose you both go into self-imposed exile from this board until, oh let's say, end of the 2019 season.  Thanks.

[amh63]

remsheep....and others, I came today to remove my post and did.  In reflection, I realize it was a "thin skinned" reaction to a particular poster...on the MBB board...that I find annoying and for the most part ignore.  My question to you....since you post on this board primarily....why HUGENERD?  I do not remember him posting on this board.  Actually he has not posted on the MBB Newmac board this year....since he has started a new step in his life after getting his doctorate from MIT.  Just curious.
Oh yes, I do believe that posters have the freedom of opining....within limits....and should avoid negative personal matters. 

[Ourtrun]

Amherst has been playing very well lately, but I don't see them winning the NESCAC tournament this year without Robertson for several reasons. 1) Three pointers account for 36% of their shot attempts (this is probably higher since Megan's injury). The only NESCAC teams with a higher percentage threes shot attempts are Colby at 40% and Hamilton at 37% (not great company). Amherst's only two losses this season have come against teams (Williams and Tufts) that can pressure their shooters and force them to drive into the lane where their size and can either block or challenge shots. 2) Without a legitimate inside threat they'll have to shoot a better percentage than the 33% they've been averaging from behind the arc. Smart teams in the NCAA tournament will pressure their shooters and force them to drive. 3) One other observation, for the top teams 3 pointers only account for 30% to 20% of their field goal attempts (DePauw and Whitman respectively). Living off three pointers is a sure way to eventually go hungry.

[remsleep]

remsheep....and others, I came today to remove my post and did.  In reflection, I realize it was a "thin skinned" reaction to a particular poster...on the MBB board...that I find annoying and for the most part ignore.  My question to you....since you post on this board primarily....why HUGENERD?  I do not remember him posting on this board.  Actually he has not posted on the MBB Newmac board this year....since he has started a new step in his life after getting his doctorate from MIT.  Just curious.
Oh yes, I do believe that posters have the freedom of opining....within limits....and should avoid negative personal matters.

<sigh>

[d3wbbfan]

Outrun, I very much enjoyed your post. And you might just be right. Like you, I find plenty of good info in the season stats summaries, and love to dig in. However, I'd be careful to over-conclude here - at least in Amherst's case. The Jeffs' game at Tufts was the first-ever NESCAC road game for all the frosh. It was also the very game that Robertson went down, and only 3 minutes in, to boot. That's a pretty good 1-2 punch to the solar plexus for the Amherst young guns, no? Watching the game, and being a Tufts fan, I thought Amherst hung in extremely well that day, given it was the *one* game that Tufts had circled on their schedule. Major Jumbos payback game. They return a veteran club, and had absorbed two narrow Jeff losses (both at LeFrak) in 12-13, including the season ender. And yeah, while the narrow Amherst loss at Williams was an "L", it wasn't their "official" NESCAC game - Amherst had already won the one that counted, by 16, 11 days earlier.

I agree that Amherst has fired up lots of 3's this year. Initially, it's an easy way to give young players with both talent and touch some confidence and some early success, before they'd fully grasped GP's offensive/defensive principles. Besides, Megan didn't need early-season post reps - she'd been there/done that. But once she was lost, the whole Amherst offense required major, in-season re-tooling. Yes, Holness was a good stopgap. And she will remain valuable, going forward. But her game and Megan's are not at all similar. Adjusting to the Robertson loss took time. As a result of all these things, to me, the Jeffs' 13-14 season stats tell surprisingly little about how they are playing as a team today, and how they'll be playing going forward.

Outrun, I found your DePauw/Whitman vs Amherst stats argument intriguing. I've seen 5 13-14 games by the defending champs, on-line. Just for fun. And while Kris Huffman has been winning as big as Geno in recent years, through no fault of their own, the Tigers' league is usually very weak. How valid will their season stats prove to be, vs NCAA-caliber teams? Not very, I suggest. DePauw has a 4-game lead on the #2 team, has had only one league win by less than 10 pts, and are the only NCAC team in their NCAA region's latest rankings. (While the top four teams in NE are *all* from the NESCAC, even with 8 total leagues getting NCAA auto bids!) And while SR Alex Gasaway is great up front for DePauw, by NESCAC standards, she's quite undersized, at 5'10". 5'8" JR Savannah Trees is excellent. But the one who scares me most is their 6th man, Emma Ondik, a 5'5" JR who shoots 50% from 3, and has proven to be quite clutch, both last year and so far this year.

Whitman? I first stumbled upon them last March, when the beat host Lewis & Clark in the NCAA 2nd round. And looked special doing it. Next thing I know, they're in Williamstown! Yeah, they lost to the then-senior-laden Ephs, but they haven't lost a game since! 24-0. I watch their webstream regularly, and have even posted over in the NWC thread. To me, it's the one conference that runs neck and neck with the NESCAC, as to overall level of play, with the MN and WI D3 leagues right behind. Being out west, Whitman gets to lay low. They'd be totally off the D3 radar if they hadn't made the big NCAA run last year, and then gone undefeated in 13-14, in a very respected conference. Whitman is so improved from a year ago. It's startling, actually. They seamlessly went from "cinderella story" to being the hunted. The latter suits them perfectly. The higher the pressure, the better they play. And despite what many coaches say ("that's how my team plays!"), it is a VERY rare team that truly does. Trust me, no one from the NESCAC wants to see the team from Walla Walla, WA next month.

Given their strong league, Whitman's 13-14 stats are a fair reflection of who they are. Their #1 problem last year was having no reliable 3-pt shooters. They saw a ton of zone. But this year, out of nowhere, SR Tiffani Traver has become a sharpshooter, is among the league leaders in 3's made, with FR Alysse Ketner also helping out. Even so, the bulk of Whitman's O still comes from their "big three" of prolific, slashing JR PG Heather Johns, and SR posts Sarah Anderegg and Meghan White. With the 3's mainly for keep-the-defense-honest garnish. So, given this team's strengths, comparing Whitman's 13-14 3-pt stats against Amherst's would make the Jeffs look like they were being coached by Paul Westhead!   

Please forgive me for going out-of-region a bit here, my D3 friends. But outrun mentioned two teams I happened to know a good bit about, and I thought his thoughtful post deserved a thoughtful reply. Good luck to all NESCAC fans on Saturday! 

[nescac1]

I saw Depauw play the Ephs in the Final Four last year.  Williams played REALLY well in that game just to stick with them.  They have basically the same cast of characters back.  If they are playing at the same level this year (and it seems like, if anything, they may be better), trust me, they are substantially better than any current NESCAC team -- they play a similar style defensively to Amherst, a ton of intense pressure all over the court, but they have better athletes and are deeper, which makes them even more intimidating.  And they play great as a team on offense while having several very dynamic individual scorers who can break defenders down.  Given that Amherst and Williams return their entire rosters, and Tufts returns the majority of its key players, as good as NESCAC is this year, it could have several legit national title contenders next year.  But this year, I don't think any would come within 10 points of Depauw barring just an unbelievably hot shooting game.

Williams I do think has exceeded expectations this year after losing such a tremendous senior class, and without a lot of depth in terms of scoring options.  The Ephs did come back down to earth a few notches the past few weeks, but they are capable of regrouping and winning a few games in the NESCAC tourney, the NCAA tourney, or both.  They survived really well without Katie Litman, who is finally back, although obviously working her way back into basketball shape, so she has played very little in recent games -- hopefully she will have a much bigger impact this weekend.  The Ephs play very aggressively on defense, with a fair amount of body contact, and I think that how games are reffed may play a role in how well they do.  In the Conn game Conn shot 37 free throws!  Uwanaka and McCall both fouled out after playing a combined 40 minutes.  Uwanaka in particular needs to find a way to play her very effective, disruptive style of defense while avoiding picking up needless fouls.  With Litman back, Williams has a great five-player core with her, Uwanaka, McCall (playing very well of late), Cook, and MacDonald.  If Williams can manage to play its trademark suffocating defense without its stars getting in early foul trouble and having to ride the pine for long stretches, I think Williams could surprise some folks. 

[d3wbbfan]

Nescac1, I meant no slight to DePauw. My comparison of them to Geno was meant as high praise. My reply was specifically to Outrun's DePauw stat reference. I feel that their 13-14 season stats can't help but be a tad skewed, due to their weak league foes, the fact that they often play up to 18 players in games, while playing their starters limited minutes. Not that DePauw isn't again a fantastic team. Huffman has a proven system in place, with basically interchangeable parts. You're right. The Tigers possess both enviable team depth and overall athleticism. They're the real deal, and are the clear favorite to repeat. But the favorites don't always win. Every team has their good and bad nights. That's why you play the games, right? DePauw had to go to 2 OT to beat a solid, but not special Centre team earlier this year. Ondik had to nail both a late 3 in regulation, and then another one with :11 left on OT #1, just to tie it up both times. If the 12-13 Ephs were the DePauw opponent that day, I'd have liked Williams' chances.     

Similarly, I thought both Uwanaka and Cook had their very best 13-14 game at home vs Amherst. Caveney and McCall are big talents, and will be key future Eph cogs. I've always been a Macdonald fan. I do think Oge's inconsistency and her penchant for foul trouble has hurt Williams a ton, and became more magnified once Litman went down. Coach Manning needs Katie back to 100%, ASAP. To my eyes, the Ephs do struggle to score at times, and also to function as a single, fully cohesive unit on O. And while Cook can slash with the very best of them, and despite her best team intentions, she can forget to involve her teammates at times - especially if they're behind late.

Nescac1, to your point about the FT disparity at CC. Once the Camels made a key 3, with under 2 to go, to push their lead to 8, Manning then ordered her Ephs to foul immediately, and hope for misses. She has always done this. It happened 6 times: With 1:35 to go, 1:32, 1:22, 1:08, :58, and :52. That alone added 12 FT attempts to the overall CC ledger. When the Camels made all 12, Williams was toast. It did make the box score look strange. But that was 100% Manning's doing, not CC's. There was no home cooking. The game was both fairly and very well officiated. And as much as I hate to see a late parade to the FT line, I always think back to the 82-83 Jimmy V/NC State team. 1st round. Down to Pepperdine. The Pack keeps fouling. The Waves keep missing. NC State somehow ties it, wins in 2 OTs, and 5 wins later, Jimmy V's looking for someone to hug. Coach Manning just wants to give her team every chance to win.

The Williams at Bowdoin #6-at-#3 game is surely the one that NESCAC partisans will be keeping a close eye on. Actually, for a #6 seed, I think the Ephs continue to be getting an absolute *ton* of national respect. Bottom line: Williams was only 6-4 in conference. And were just an OT squeaker, NESCAC finale away from being 5-5. In the history of the NCAA D3 tourney, has a #6 league seed EVER garnered an at-large NCAA tourney bid? The answer has to be no, correct? Yet they clearly are. With all due respect, I can't honestly say that those who feel Williams may be a notch below the NESCAC WBB elite this year might not have a point. The best part? Their NCAA fate is in their own hands. Win their next 3 games, or cross their fingers and hope. I always root for high-quality basketball. And this league rarely disappoints. Stay healthy, and good luck to all teams this weekend!