University Athletic Association

[Pat Coleman]

Thanks. Witt's release doesn't mention it.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Wow. That's rough. it does make it 'not as bad' of a mistake because it was 18 mins through the second half (giving Witt time to recover). If you look at it as similar to a bad foul call, it wasn't that bad relative to the momentum of a game. It was a very unique error (which is why it deserves that media attention). I have seen players clearly and cleanly block three point shots and get called for fouls because of 'preemptive whistles'. So obviously a crappy loss for Witt, but the beauty of basketball is that rarely is a game dependent on one play.

With that being said, how is Case looking this year? Is it finally their time to make noise in the UAA. They have a big matchup with Mount Union coming up. Anyone with info?

[deiscanton]

I took a look at the play by play sheet for the Case--Wittenberg game and I found where the scorer got confused.  Look at the jumper credited to Case's #10 Caitlin Henry with 13:02 remaining in the ball game.  That was the bucket that should have been credited to Wittenberg's #10 Carrie Dyer, but the scorer gave the basket to the wrong #10.  The error is somewhat obvious when the play by play sheet is read, because there was an offensive rebound before the shot (off a missed FT by Wittenberg), which indicated that Wittenberg had possession of the ball when the shot at 13:02 took place, but no turnover was recorded (which would have given possession to Case) on the play by play sheet before the basket credited to Case's Caitlin Henry was scored. 

Unfortunately, there is no video replay in Division III, so I don't know how the game can be reviewed.

The play by play sheet can be found on the Case athletics web site with the box score for the Case-- Wittenberg game.

[hopefan]

That's absolutely ridiculous; the decision is uncalled for;  the NCAA needs to change a rule here-I'm sure even Case Western would agree.  What happens on the floor MUST be recorded properly in the official book; to me, the answer should have been to have the officials confab with the table and correct it...  ie one of those correctable errors (such as a player with 5 fouls on the court).   

[Wydown Blvd.]

Going forward, I agree there should be a rules change.
Hopefan and fellow posters, if you had a chance to give a referral to the NCAA what do you think the rule change should be?

[hopefan]

Wydown - the officials should be able to conduct a review with the scorebook people and take all 'evidence' into account.....  Not sure how to formally word it.....

[Mr. Ypsi]

The Witt/CWRU game has now punctured the oldest (though usually tongue-in-cheek) cliche in sports: the winner will be whoever scores more points!

[David Collinge]

Wydown - the officials should be able to conduct a review with the scorebook people and take all 'evidence' into account.....  Not sure how to formally word it.....

FWIW, at Wittenberg, there's a very large (and steep) distance between the scorer's table and the media area, which I believe is where the statskeepers sit.  They're not next to one another, or even across the floor; the press is wa-a-a-ay up at the top of the 3000 seat arena.  Not that that should be an impediment to getting it right, but it would have been a hassle to have such a meeting.

I am given to understand (from the radio play-by-play man who is an assistant SID at Witt) that there was a similar snafu in the game that preceded this one, the men's consolation game between Ohio Dominican and Olivet, although I don't know the details of it.  Olivet won that game by a dozen, so it wouldn't have been as crucial an error.

[David Collinge]

the answer should have been to have the officials confab with the table and correct it...  ie one of those correctable errors (such as a player with 5 fouls on the court).   

This confab happened, but the official scorer was adamant that there was no error to correct. 

[d3 new england fan]

williamsondebbie@yahoo.com would be able to provide you with directions to submit a rules change proposal as she is the Secretary-rules editor for NCAA Women's Basketball.

The game officials could have used all resources at their disposal to determine if this book keeping error could have been corrected.

By rule, if the error can not be identified, then the offiicals go with the home scorebook as that is deemed to be the official book.

I don't think any rule change needs to be entered for this situation.....just better game management as is often the issue when these types of situations arise.

A 3,000 seat area is great....having stats people that far away from the action isn't so great when something like this happens.

[David Collinge]

The game officials could have used all resources at their disposal to determine if this book keeping error could have been corrected.

By rule, if the error can not be identified, then the offiicals go with the home scorebook as that is deemed to be the official book.

I believe this sums up the situation nicely.  As I understand what happened (my source is inherently biased, but I trust his/her objectivity), the game officials were unaware of the error, and when it was brought to their attention (by almost everyone else in the arena) at the next deadball, they met with the scorer, who adamantly denied that there was any error.  The officials checked with the head coaches, one of whom insisted on the correction and the other of whom demurred, deferring to the scorer.  In this situation, with the officials unable to personally verify the error and getting contradictory input, the decision was made to go with the book. 

It's worth noting that there was something like 13 minutes left to play in the game.  Although Wittenberg definitely got screwed here, they still had plenty of opportunities to overcome the error and win the game; indeed, they had a 3-point lead with 0:26 left and failed to close it out.  It's not as if they managed the game to a personally-kept score different from the one on the scoreboard. 

No rule change that I can think of would fix the problem here.  It boils down to ensuring that there is accurate scorekeeping, which is an internal issue for the host institution. 

A 3,000 seat arena is great....having stats people that far away from the action isn't so great when something like this happens.

The stats keepers were in immediate contact with the scorer's table via telephone.

[WUPHF]

ULTRA-QUICK UAA UPDATE

The UAA went 5-3 in the last week before conference play begins.  New York University destroyed both FDU Florham and St. Joseph's while the University of Chicago beat the Milwaukee School of Engineering by 19 points.  Washington handled Big Bend Blvd rival Webster University (88-40).  And, The University of Rochester beat Medaille (61-59).

Case Western lost to a very tough Mount Union (77-57) and Carnegie Mellon dropped a close one to Stevenson.  A similar story with Brandeis who fell to the University of New England (81-77).

It should be an interesting first weekend.

[deiscanton]

My thoughts going into the weekend:

Well, this conference season is going to be very interesting.    To date, none of the UAA teams have been successful against teams currently ranked in the top 25 outside of the league.  (I am not counting teams that were ranked in pre-season and have dropped out of the top 25 since that time.)

2 teams currently ranked in the top 25-- Wash U and Chicago -- fewer than in previous years, but the UAA always has teams that are among the best 75 DIII women's basketball teams in the country-- and I wouldn't be surprised to see all of the UAA teams somewhere on that list if we were ranking the best 75 teams in DIII women's hoop.

Question 1:  How does Brandeis react to a loss against a team coached by a former Brandeis assistant (Tony Ewing)-- giving the Judges 3 in-region losses before league play even starts (although by strength of schedule standards, Brandeis is still doing very well.)  Hopefully, the Judges will play extra tough at NYU and finally get a win down there-- it's been a while since the last time that has happened.  It is not in the bag yet, NYU has blown out 3 teams since their loss at Hunter.

Question 2:  How does NYU react to losing 3 in-region games before league play starts?-- and the group of teams that the Violets lost to-- Mt St Mary, Skidmore, and Hunter-- would definitely be underdogs against the group of Tufts, Emmanuel, and U. New England.  A bit of a clue there in their last 3 games, but neither FDU-Florham, NJ City, nor St Joe's LI are UAA level competition.

Question 3:  Marquee game of the weekend is Wash U against Chicago.  Wash U should be favored at home, but can Chicago use their strength in rebounding to help close the gap?  (Chicago is #1 in rebound margin, and has played Illinois Wesleyan and Carthage tough.)

Question 4:  Can Case get a road win or two in UAA play this weekend against Rochester and Emory?  Case has been impressive with their 9-2 mark going into league play.

Question 5:  What is the status of CMU's Jacki Cortese?  Cortese was the UAA's leading scorer and rebounder in non-conference play before missing the last 3 games due to injury.  CMU has struggled a bit without her, although CMU has won 2 of the last 3 games.   Without Cortese, CMU will be hard pressed to win this weekend, but it is not impossible.

[WUPHF]

Question 3:  Marquee game of the weekend is Wash U against Chicago.  Wash U should be favored at home, but can Chicago use their strength in rebounding to help close the gap?  (Chicago is #1 in rebound margin, and has played Illinois Wesleyan and Carthage tough.)

This questions is the one that I am obviously most concerned about and I am concerned because the Bears have had a relatively easy schedule since Thanksgiving.  It should be a good test for both teams.

[deiscanton]

This weekend, we got an answer to my previously posted Question 5.

Carnegie Mellon got their first road victory in UAA competition tonight since the Tartans last won at Emory back on Feb. 9, 2003.  (The 2002-2003 Carnegie Mellon team went 5-9 in UAA play, but since then, CMU had won only 2 UAA games over the years at Skibo Gym before tonight.)

However, this will probably not be a game to file away as one of the best played UAA games.

Crucial factors to the contest:

Emory shot only 20.3% from the field tonight (13-64 shooting), while CMU shot 42.3 % (22-52)

Emory had a season-high 14 steals, while Carnegie Mellon turned the ball over 38 times in the game.

Carnegie Mellon outrebounded Emory, 57 to 30  (Possible if Jacki Cortese played tonight, but Emory has only released a recap statement so far-- the official box score had not been posted on the Emory website yet as of this posting.)

To indirectly quote Emory's press statement:  "The ice-cold conditions in the Atlanta area found their way into the Emory shooting."

In other news, Rochester won the other UAA contest against Case.

Update:  According to WYSL's JC DeLass, who called the Sunday game of CMU against Rochester, it looks like CMU's Jacki Cortese is done for the year with a knee injury that she sustained in non-conference play.