University Athletic Association

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yes, the ECAC financial assistance is very small.  For basketball, the school that hosts the final 3 rounds of the tournament gets a $4,000 stipend.  The 7 other travelling teams only get paid for 1 bus round trip from their school to the game site, with no provisions for room and board.  No financial assistance is provided by the ECAC to help with Wednesday preliminary games.  It is slightly better than the old format, which had every participating team cover their own costs of putting on the regional tournaments.  However, under this new format, I am not surprised that the only New England teams that filed declarations for the ECAC women's basketball tournament were Brandeis and Springfield.

Trust me when I say this, the $4k stipend is a drop in the bucket for these kinds of thing. I know hosting Hoopsville Classic is a bigger endeavor, but knowing the costs of running that event... $4k is nothing. The ECAC is desperately trying to hold this together and those who have applied to participate (and could still back out) is an ever shrinking group. ECAC's end was written a few years ago... it is just a matter of when it will officially end, now.

FYI - no New England schools elected to participate in football this past year (for many reasons).

Back out day is today, so maybe they'll update the lists tomorrow and we'll know what they're choosing from.  We also have to remember, some of those declared teams have a sub .500 record and aren't eligible.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yes, the ECAC financial assistance is very small.  For basketball, the school that hosts the final 3 rounds of the tournament gets a $4,000 stipend.  The 7 other travelling teams only get paid for 1 bus round trip from their school to the game site, with no provisions for room and board.  No financial assistance is provided by the ECAC to help with Wednesday preliminary games.  It is slightly better than the old format, which had every participating team cover their own costs of putting on the regional tournaments.  However, under this new format, I am not surprised that the only New England teams that filed declarations for the ECAC women's basketball tournament were Brandeis and Springfield.

Trust me when I say this, the $4k stipend is a drop in the bucket for these kinds of thing. I know hosting Hoopsville Classic is a bigger endeavor, but knowing the costs of running that event... $4k is nothing. The ECAC is desperately trying to hold this together and those who have applied to participate (and could still back out) is an ever shrinking group. ECAC's end was written a few years ago... it is just a matter of when it will officially end, now.

FYI - no New England schools elected to participate in football this past year (for many reasons).

Back out day is today, so maybe they'll update the lists tomorrow and we'll know what they're choosing from.  We also have to remember, some of those declared teams have a sub .500 record and aren't eligible.

... unless they need them.

[deiscanton]

Quick update on women's action--

Congrats to Wash U on their big come from behind effort today to defeat Chicago and capture the AQ for the women's tournament.

Chicago will need some discussion due to their 18-7 record (.720 winning pct), but their extremely high SOS, and their results vs RROs make the Maroons a strong candidate for a Pool C bid.  In the UAA, the Maroons went 5-1 vs RROs, sweeping Rochester and Carnegie Mellon, and splitting with Wash U.  In non-league, Chicago went 1-4 vs RROs, winning against Claremont Mudd-Scripps, and losing vs Wheaton(IL), Illinois Wesleyan, Rose-Hulman, and Texas-Dallas.  Rochester finishes with a 17-8 mark (.680), and Carnegie Mellon was also losing at halftime.  Right now, I see Chicago with the best chance at a Pool C bid.

Update-- Carnegie Mellon won today to finish at 18-7 (.720) winning pct.  Awaiting results of DePauw and Rose-Hulman contests as well as the Trine vs Calvin matchup to check probability of the Tartans making the national table for discussion.  Ohio Northern got into the NCAAs with a perfect record, but Thomas More is still playing in their title game at this moment.

[blue_jays]

Quick update on women's action--

Congrats to Wash U on their big come from behind effort today to defeat Chicago and capture the AQ for the women's tournament.

Chicago will need some discussion due to their 18-7 record (.720 winning pct), but their extremely high SOS, and their results vs RROs make the Maroons a strong candidate for a Pool C bid.  In the UAA, the Maroons went 5-1 vs RROs, sweeping Rochester and Carnegie Mellon, and splitting with Wash U.  In non-league, Chicago went 1-4 vs RROs, winning against Claremont Mudd-Scripps, and losing vs Wheaton(IL), Illinois Wesleyan, Rose-Hulman, and Texas-Dallas.  Rochester finishes with a 17-8 mark (.680), and Carnegie Mellon was also losing at halftime.  Right now, I see Chicago with the best chance at a Pool C bid.

Update-- Carnegie Mellon won today to finish at 18-7 (.720) winning pct.  Awaiting results of DePauw and Rose-Hulman contests as well as the Trine vs Calvin matchup to check probability of the Tartans making the national table for discussion.  Ohio Northern got into the NCAAs with a perfect record, but Thomas More is still playing in their title game at this moment.

Chicago was the better team today, but sabotaged by free throws and some lucky shots from WashU. The Maroons should handily get into Pool C. They might even be first team on the board for the Central Region if Oshkosh takes care of business. They will have 13 results versus regionally-ranked teams* (most in the country), 8 regionally-ranked wins, and a top 5 SOS in the nation, with not a single bad loss on the resume. It would be a travesty if they didn't make the field.

* Based on fact that second set of regional rankings means all those opponents fall into once-ranked, always-ranked status.

[deiscanton]

Chicago deserves to make it in as a Pool C team this year.  In 2014-15, Chicago was UAA Co-Champion, but lost the AQ on a 0-2 tiebreaker vs WashU, and a 5-5 non league in region record did not get Chicago in as a Pool C that year (Illinois Tech was a provisional team that Chicago defeated, so Chicago effectively finished with a 17-7 record that year.). That snub a few years ago probably gave Chicago extra motivation to try to win at Wash U today to eliminate all doubt.

[deiscanton]

Blue_Jays--

The results vs NYU are not results vs a RRO at the time of selection.  NYU is no longer in the East Region rankings.  It is not once ranked, always ranked-- the team must be assured of being a RRO after the conference tournaments have concluded to be a RRO at the time of selection.  However, starting next year, a team ranked in the Week 3 regional rankings will automatically be counted as a RRO at the time of selection, from what I am hearing.  Therefore, I only count 11 RRO contests in Chicago's resume.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Blue_Jays--

The results vs NYU are not results vs a RRO at the time of selection.  NYU is no longer in the East Region rankings.  It is not once ranked, always ranked-- the team must be assured of being a RRO after the conference tournaments have concluded to be a RRO at the time of selection.  However, starting next year, a team ranked in the Week 3 regional rankings will automatically be counted as a RRO at the time of selection, from what I am hearing.  Therefore, I only count 11 RRO contests in Chicago's resume.

This isn't exactly correct from what I have been told. This is what I have been told by an NCAA liaison just a few weeks ago:

Week 3 will set up the final regional rankings with it's vRRO data. The RACs will create Week 4's rankings. Those rankings will go to the national committee who will make any necessary tweaks as they always do. The vRRO is then recalculated and the national committee will re-rank again (which they do anyway). The vRRO is based on Week 4's rankings. When they are done with the ranking this final time a new vRRO number is produced using the latest ranking and the Week 4's.

Now, I understand completely this may not make any sense. I have confirmed it twice with the liaison and I plan to confirm it two or three more times with that person and others. But for now, work with this because the person was pretty firm on it and it was somewhat confirmed by a committee chair.

One other note... the Chicago "snub" in 2015 had one other key factor... Chicago had played a couple of non-Division III teams if memory serves (I don't have the energy to look it up). I just remember their numbers being down. I think this played a key role as well.

[deiscanton]

Blue_Jays--

The results vs NYU are not results vs a RRO at the time of selection.  NYU is no longer in the East Region rankings.  It is not once ranked, always ranked-- the team must be assured of being a RRO after the conference tournaments have concluded to be a RRO at the time of selection.  However, starting next year, a team ranked in the Week 3 regional rankings will automatically be counted as a RRO at the time of selection, from what I am hearing.  Therefore, I only count 11 RRO contests in Chicago's resume.

This isn't exactly correct from what I have been told. This is what I have been told by an NCAA liaison just a few weeks ago:

Week 3 will set up the final regional rankings with it's vRRO data. The RACs will create Week 4's rankings. Those rankings will go to the national committee who will make any necessary tweaks as they always do. The vRRO is then recalculated and the national committee will re-rank again (which they do anyway). The vRRO is based on Week 4's rankings. When they are done with the ranking this final time a new vRRO number is produced using the latest ranking and the Week 4's.

Now, I understand completely this may not make any sense. I have confirmed it twice with the liaison and I plan to confirm it two or three more times with that person and others. But for now, work with this because the person was pretty firm on it and it was somewhat confirmed by a committee chair.

One other note... the Chicago "snub" in 2015 had one other key factor... Chicago had played a couple of non-Division III teams if memory serves (I don't have the energy to look it up). I just remember their numbers being down. I think this played a key role as well.

Here is the non-conference schedule that Chicago played in the 2014-15 season, and the results of those games for Chicago:

1.)  at UW-Whitewater -- Lost
2.). vs Capital (Game played at Manchester)-- Won
3.)  at Manchester-- Lost
4.)  at Carthage-- Lost
5.) Wheaton(IL)-- Won
6.) at Illinois Wesleyan-- Lost
7.) St. Vincent (Game played at Hope)-- Won
8.) at Hope-- Lost
9.) Loras-- Won
10.) Illinois Tech-- Won
11.) Oberlin-- Won

Illinois Tech that season was not a countable DIII game due to the provisional status of that school-- the other 10 opponents were DIII opponents.

Chicago finished that season with a 17-7 record (.708 winning percentage) for purposes of that selection process.

[deiscanton]

Starting to look at the bracket--

Is the NCAA starting to loosen the purse strings again-- thereby loosening the 500 mile geographic proximity requirement of teams that will participate in sectionals?   On the Tufts side of the draw, I am seeing a sectional matchup that is rivalling the sectional matchups of the 2006-07 season.  That year saw Emmanuel host a sectional involving S. Maine, DePauw, and Calvin at what is now known as the Andy Yosinoff Court at the Jean Yawkey Center in Boston.    The bracket this year sets up a national type sectional involving Tufts, Scranton, Wis Oshkosh, and Wash U, (or other teams)  where at least 2 flights will have to be made.  Scranton and Tufts are over 500 miles from Wis Oshkosh or Wash U.  I would love to see Tufts host this sectional if they make it the first weekend-- which I believe that Tufts will do with their defensive prowess.  I will certainly make sure to attend this sectional in person if Tufts advances and gets to host that second weekend--- I would love to see Wash U v. Tufts in the Elite 8 if both teams advance to that round. 

[deiscanton]

In case anybody is interested--

ECAC DIII Women's Basketball Championship-- 2017  15 team field

#1 overall seed is Carnegie Mellon-- Carnegie Mellon will host Fri-Sun weekend and gets a Wednesday bye. 

Region 1

#1 seed is Carnegie Mellon-- Wednesday bye

Wednesday at 7 PM-- (#3) Neumann at (#2) Brooklyn

Carnegie Mellon plays winner on Friday at 11 AM

Region 4

Wednesday at 7 PM

(#4) Cabrini at (#1) Stevenson
(#3) Rutgers-Camden at (#2) Misericordia

Winners play Friday at 2 PM at Carnegie Mellon

Region 3

Wednesday at 7 PM

(#4) SUNY Cobleskill at (#1) Springfield
(#3) Marywood at (#2) NYU

NYU will host the Wednesday game vs Marywood at NYU's Brooklyn campus-- Game will be played at NYU's Brooklyn Athletics Facility at the court formerly known as the home court of NYU-Poly.

Winners play Friday at 5 PM at Carnegie Mellon

Region 2

Wednesday at 7 PM

(#4) Centenary at (#1) Moravian
(#3) Grove City at (#2) Waynesburg

Winners play Friday at 8 PM at Carnegie Mellon

Semifinals at Carnegie Mellon-- Saturday

3 PM-- Region 1 winner vs Region 4 winner
6 PM-- Region 3 winner vs Region 2 winner

Championship game-- Sunday March 5, 2017 at Carnegie Mellon

If games cannot be played due to weather, they will be cancelled and the higher seed automatically advances to next round.  If Sunday game cannot be played due to weather, then co-champions will be declared by the ECAC.

[ronk]

In case anybody is interested--

ECAC DIII Women's Basketball Championship-- 2017  15 team field

#1 overall seed is Carnegie Mellon-- Carnegie Mellon will host Fri-Sun weekend and gets a Wednesday bye. 

Region 1

#1 seed is Carnegie Mellon-- Wednesday bye

Wednesday at 7 PM-- (#3) Neumann at (#2) Brooklyn

Carnegie Mellon plays winner on Friday at 11 AM

Region 4

Wednesday at 7 PM

(#4) Cabrini at (#1) Stevenson
(#3) Rutgers-Camden at (#2) Misericordia

Winners play Friday at 2 PM at Carnegie Mellon

Region 3

Wednesday at 7 PM

(#4) SUNY Cobleskill at (#1) Springfield
(#3) Marywood at (#2) NYU

NYU will host the Wednesday game vs Marywood at NYU's Brooklyn campus-- Game will be played at NYU's Brooklyn Athletics Facility at the court formerly known as the home court of NYU-Poly.

Winners play Friday at 5 PM at Carnegie Mellon

Region 2

Wednesday at 7 PM

(#4) Centenary at (#1) Moravian
(#3) Grove City at (#2) Waynesburg

Winners play Friday at 8 PM at Carnegie Mellon

Semifinals at Carnegie Mellon-- Saturday

3 PM-- Region 1 winner vs Region 4 winner
6 PM-- Region 3 winner vs Region 2 winner

Championship game-- Sunday March 5, 2017 at Carnegie Mellon

If games cannot be played due to weather, they will be cancelled and the higher seed automatically advances to next round.  If Sunday game cannot be played due to weather, then co-champions will be declared by the ECAC.

This has the potential of a matchup of 2 of the best players in D3 - Lisa Murphy of Carnegie-Mellon and Sara Tarbert of Stevenson. Let's hope it happens.

Deis,
  By the way, good to have you back on the chat boards; u have always been a resource for NE basketball and UAA, in particular. In addition, I always enjoyed the description of your journeys to various D3 venues to watch the games.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Starting to look at the bracket--

Is the NCAA starting to loosen the purse strings again-- thereby loosening the 500 mile geographic proximity requirement of teams that will participate in sectionals?   On the Tufts side of the draw, I am seeing a sectional matchup that is rivalling the sectional matchups of the 2006-07 season.  That year saw Emmanuel host a sectional involving S. Maine, DePauw, and Calvin at what is now known as the Andy Yosinoff Court at the Jean Yawkey Center in Boston.    The bracket this year sets up a national type sectional involving Tufts, Scranton, Wis Oshkosh, and Wash U, (or other teams)  where at least 2 flights will have to be made.  Scranton and Tufts are over 500 miles from Wis Oshkosh or Wash U.  I would love to see Tufts host this sectional if they make it the first weekend-- which I believe that Tufts will do with their defensive prowess.  I will certainly make sure to attend this sectional in person if Tufts advances and gets to host that second weekend--- I would love to see Wash U v. Tufts in the Elite 8 if both teams advance to that round.

What Bobbi Morgan basically said... they didn't have much of a choice. More and more good teams are starting to get spread out around the country. If you look at the bracket, there might have been one pod you could move to reduce 6 flights to 5 in the second weekend. If the NCAA was truly loosening the purse strings (and you could argue they have slightly)... NWC wouldn't have three teams parked in the same pod this weekend. One or two of them would have flown out like they did in 2013. Of course to fix the NWC problem, you need two flights. NCAA wouldn't pay for that in the opening weekend.

But again... I am not sure looking at the bracket you can fix much of the travel in the second weekend.

And FYI - Tufts women have to hope the Tufts men aren't in position to host the second weekend. Men have priority this year on the second weekend.

[ronk]

So what r the odds that the sectional is at Oshkosh because the Scranton, Tufts, and Wash U men r hosting?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

So what r the odds that the sectional is at Oshkosh because the Scranton, Tufts, and Wash U men r hosting?

Scranton's men did get into the 2nd spot, but I don't see them suddenly trumping Middlebury's numbers and hosting over the Panthers.

Tufts men are in good shape, so yes... could absolutely host, but the committee also said they treated Babson as the #1 despite its position in the bracket.

WashU men hosting is a real possibility... so maybe it is anyone's guess. LOL

[blue_jays]

Congrats to UChicago on a great season. They took an undefeated St. Thomas team down to the wire and gave them their closest game of the season at 73-69. The seniors will be greatly missed, but much of the team will be back and hopefully will be able to reproduce their unique brand of havoc next year as well.