University Athletic Association

[Wydown Blvd.]

Nevermind to that last question.

[bearsfan]

     Must say I am disappointed by your post Ralph. Usually agree with most things you say, but to say that Maryville should be ahead of Wash U simply because of 1 game is the same as saying that Salem State should be ahead of Southern Maine because they beat them head-to-head(which did not occur in their region). The criteria are:
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
• Quality-of-Wins-Index (only contests versus regional competition)
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results vs. common regional opponents.
• In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams
    Maryville has the better win-loss percentage and the head to head but trails by more than 6/10ths of a point in RQoWI which should be considered much more than the first two. Wash U is also 3-2 vs regionally ranked opponents with 2 wins over Rochester and 1 over Brandeis with loses to NYU and Maryville. Maryville is 1-0(just over Wash U).
    In fact, Maryville's regional record vs regional opponents with a regional record over .500 is...1-0. That's right. Maryville has played 1 regional opponent with a regional record over .500. That could become 2 if Webster wins another regional game but right now is 1. In fact, 6 of their 11 regional wins have come against teams at .333 or worse regionally.
    Compare that to Wash U who has 6 regional wins vs teams greater than .600 and only 3 wins against teams that are .333 or worse regionally in 14 regional contests. They are also both undefeated against common in region opponents.
    To simply look at 1 game and not the overall season would be a travesty for the game of basketball. Maryville may have won that game fair and square but to completely disregard, QoWI(which marginally takes strength of schedule into account) as well as the much stronger competition faced by Wash U(same things could be said for Carroll, Lawerence, Wheaton, and IWU) would be against everything that the basketball season should be about.

[jagluski]

Even with the teams who Wustl has beaten? Seems like the conference schedule of Wustl would play a larger part in the ranking. And placing all that weight on one loss. Seemingly the true reason they are higher is that they are undefeated in-region, simply because the only non-SLIAC team that they played was Washington University. On the other hand, Wustl's in region included their loss to NYU in addtion to the Maryville loss. Besides Wustl, has Maryville beaten a top 25 team in-region?

You guys all know I'm a Wash U fan/alum.  That said, I completly agree with ranking Maryville over Wash U at this point.
Is there a link to the criteria for Regional Rankings?

1) Maryville played 10 games against non-SLIAC teams.
2) The D3Hoops Top 25 has no effect on the regional-rankings, so your question there is irrelevant.
3) The overall record is not so important to the regional rankings, so 10-0 is better than 12-2, especially if we're talking about the 10-0 team being the 12-2 team. 
4) Maryville's QoWI of 10.400 is not much worse than Wash U's 11.0something.
5) Just because these are the current rankings doesn't mean that if if they stay that way that Maryville will be the #1 seed in the region in the tournament or host Wash U.
6) As I seem to state several times now, if Wash U is really a better team than Maryville, they'll win in the tournament and then none of this matters.

Ralph, I agree completely with you on this one.

[bearsfan]

Joel,

     The 10 non-SLIAC wins are irrelevant except the 1 against Wash U. The other 9 were all out of region and have no bearing in any regional ranking criteria unless the primary are split. If you get into those, Wash U beat Depauw(#1 in their region and #1 nationally in RQoWI) and additionally beat Hanover who Maryville lost too. So let's both agree those don't matter.
     Also, no one has mentioned the D3hoops top 25?!?!
     Additionally, to say that 6/10th of a point in QoWI is nothing is kinda off base. 6/10ths is a difference between 11th and 31st in the top 100 teams and those top 100 teams are only seperated by a little under 3.5 points(12.4 to 9). Also of note is the difference between that 3.5 points is a team that is 15-0 regionally to a team that is 9-9 regionally. So .6 points is not a trival difference.
    I totally agree that the first rankings doesn't mean it will stay that way and Wash U must win their critical upcoming games if any debate is to still remain at all(since Maryville will most likely win out considering they have no opponents over .500 left). Wins against Brandeis and NYU are critical being regionally ranked opponents and losses against Emory, Case, or Chicago are equally as damaging and with the high quality of the UAA we already know no wins are easy.
     The only reason the rankings matter is in determining hosting and while I still believe Wash U will win even at Maryville, I still prefer hosting tournament games to playing on the road.
     There isn't any clear cut answers, but in any debate, simply looking at a record doesn't say alot about who that record was against and there is no denying the lack of quality(except 1 game) in Maryville's 10-0 compared to Wash U.
     For that matter, I do not believe that Maryville should be ranked above Carroll, Lawrence, or Wheaton either. All those teams also play tougher schedules and have excelled in difficult conferences. You can't just solely look at a record without looking at what is underneath that record. And for Maryville, what's underneath is a weak schedule. Compare against any #1 ranking team in any other region and still tell me that Maryville's quality of schedule matches up well with any of them. It's just not true.
     Just for quick reference...regional records of the other 7 regional opponents for Maryville:
Webster: 8-8
Fontbonne: 7-8
MacMurray: 5-10
Greenville: 4-11
Blackburn: 2-13
Westminster (Mo.): 2-11
Principia: 1-8
     Their 4 remaining games are against teams with a combined regional record of 10-42 which is a win percentage of 0.192. That definitely does not sound like quality to me.

[cmubobcat]

WRCT Radio presents Carnegie Mellon basketball live over the Internet this weekend.  All broadcasts will be online only and can be heard by clicking on the "Sports Stream" links at the top of the WRCT home page (www.wrct.org).  These broadcasts will not be heard on terrestrial radio.

Friday:  Tartans vs. NYU
6:00 Women
8:00 Men

Sunday:  Tartans vs. Brandeis
1:00 Men
3:00 Women

Again, this weekend's games can only be heard at www.wrct.org.

[jagluski]

He said: "Besides Wustl, has Maryville beaten a top 25 team in-region?"

Since they only rank 6 teams in region, this has to refer to the D3Hoops Top25.

[jagluski]

Maryville may not even have the gym to host...

[bearsfan]

Yea. Didn't see that line. Probably meant beaten anyone regionally ranked but just didn't say it right. And you may be right that they don't have the gym to host. I truely believe that this first ranking doesn't really matter though and while it may provide a fun topic of debate as to whether teams are being ranked as they should be, if Wash U and others take care of their business the rankings will fall where we all believe they should be. Bottom line though, you are right that if they are the better team, Wash U will beat them in the tournament.

[sandman]

Case plays their final two road games this weekend, at Wash U and Chicago (the same teams I saw them lose to at home).  They need at least one win in order to have any chance at finishing with a winning record overall.  In other words, they've got to beat Chicago, because blah blah blah Case has never beaten Wash U yada yada.

I'll be watching a high school game tonight (for experience, I'm training to become a high school ref) so I won't find out how the Lady Spartans fare until later tonight.  Given their most recent performance vs. the Bears, I'd be pleasantly surprised if they lose by fewer than 20 points.

Question for Allen and/or the Wash U fans: By how many points did Wash U beat Brandeis in Waltham last year, before 'Deis knocked off the Bears in St. Louis?  There is precedent.

[jagluski]

On 1/28, Wash U won at Brandeis 70-40.

On 2/6, Wash U lost at home to Brandeis 55-59.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Case did not have one of their team leaders, Carmen Rowen, in the first meeting against the Bears, so there is now a different vibe on the court for them. Also, they were so flat against the Bears in that first meeting contrasting to the energy that they had versus NYU in throwback weekend.

Case is still dangerous. In the beginning of the season, they only lost to Baldwin-Wallace by 3. Case led 54-50 with 10:34 to play in the second period. And NYU tied the game with eight minutes left. And Case lost to Brandeis this past weekend by 6. Similar to Carnegie Mellon, Case may be dangerous becuase they have nothing to lose.

Last season Wash U beat Brandeis 70-40 at Brandeis and then lost 59-55 at home.

[bearsfan]

Still the biggest games of the weekend will be in Rochester this weekend. If Rochester can defend their home court(which we all know is one of the hardest places to win) the whole complexion of the UAA race could change. Obviously Wash U still needs to take care of their business against two tough teams who have been playing well of late but the battle of the #2 teams this weekend are the games to watch. For Wash U's sake, I hope Rochester can get two big wins.

[jagluski]

The NCAA just announced it's 5 person, 1 coach 25th Anniversary team.  I'm proud to say that half of the team is Wash U Bears.

From the press release:

1) Alia Fischer, Washington University in St. Louis, Center

NCAA National Champion (1998, 99, 2000)
NCAA All-Tournament Team (1998, 99, 2000)
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player (2000)
WBCA all-American (1998, 99, 2000)
WBCA Division III Player of the Year (1998, 99, 2000)

2) Tasha Rodgers, Washington University in St. Louis, Forward

NCAA National Champion (1998, 99, 2000, 01)
NCAA All-Tournament Team (1999, 2000, 01)
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player (2001)
WBCA all-American (2000, 01)
WBCA Division III Player of the Year (2001)

3) Nancy Fahey, Washington University in St. Louis, Coach

NCAA National Champion (1998, 99, 2000, 01)
6 NCAA Division III Tournament semifinal appearances (1991, 94, 98, 99, 2000, 01)
17 NCAA Division III Tournament appearances
WBCA Division III National Coach of the Year (2000)



Congratulations, Bears!

[sandman]

That's good to hear we've got some UAA representation on the 25th Anniversary Team.  I did vote for Fahey, Fischer, and Rodgers, because they represent what I think was the greatest dynasty in D3 women's basketball history-- maybe all of NCAA (their 80-game win streak is tops across all divisions on the women's side).  Even though I'm a UConn fan, I still acknowledge the Wash U team from '98-'01 as more dominant than UConn from '02-'04-- although UConn would probably win a head-to-head matchup easily.

Thanks for the info.  Wash U beat Case, 77-47, by the same margin as Brandeis last year, and this time the Lady Spartans will have senior forward Carmen Rowan in the lineup, so it's not a forgone conclusion that Wash U will win tonight.  However, in the previous game, my friend declared it over five minutes in, when Wash U led 18-4, and the Lady Bears led by 27 at the half and by as many as 44 before Case's starters were able to wear out Wash U's C-team.  Will the return of the captain and a change of venue make a difference?  Let's find out tonight.

[emory_eagle]

Emory is Case's travel partner so they'll also get a crack at Chicago and Wash. U.  This is a make or break weekend for the Eagles.  They've got to get at least a split for any hope of staying within sight of a Pool C berth.  They have taken out NYU and Brandeis in the past two weeks so who knows.