D-3 Hoops Top 10 Team vs. USA Today High School Top 10 Team

ephoops · January 22, 2009, 10:29:14 PM

This question may have been asked in the past, if so, my apologies for bringing it up again...

How do people think a top 10 team in the D-3 hoops poll would do against a top 10 team team in the USA Today poll for high school basketball??

hcacdad1 · January 22, 2009, 10:30:48 PM

d3 team would win by 35......

Hugenerd · January 22, 2009, 11:38:35 PM

Im not so sure about every team winning by that much or winning at all. Some of those top high school teams regularly have 5-7 d1 recruits, it would by no means be a cakewalk.

sac · January 22, 2009, 11:46:18 PM

FIRST TEAM (Name, School, City, Height)
Brandon Jennings - Oak Hill Academy - Mouth of Wilson, Va. - 6'2"
Samardo Samuels - St. Benedict's - Newark, N.J. - 6'9"
Tyreke Evans - American Christian - Aston, Pa. - 6'6"
Jrue Holiday - Campbell Hall - North Hollywood, Calif. - 6'4"
Tyler Zeller - Washington - Washington, Ind. - 7'0"
Al-Farouq Aminu - Norcross - Norcross, Ga. - 6'9"
B.J. Mullens - Canal Winchester - Canal Winchester, Ohio - 7'1"
Demar DeRozan - Compton - Compton, Calif. - 6'6"
William Buford - Libbey - Toledo, Ohio - 6'5"
Greg Monroe - Helen Cox - Harvey, La. - 6'10"

Thats last springs Parade high school all-american team.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pos. Name Yr. School Hometown
G Andrew Olson Sr. Amherst San Diego, Calif.
G Kent Raymond Jr. Wheaton (Ill.) New Palestine, Ind.
G James Cooper Sr. Wooster Springfield, Ohio
F Troy Ruths Sr. Washington U. Sugar Land, Texas
C Ben Strong Sr. Guilford Chapel Hill, N.C.
G Anthony Williams Sr. Plattsburgh State Brooklyn, N.Y.
G Nick Shattuck Sr. Ursinus Ardlsey, Pa.
F Larry Welton Sr. Aurora Chicago, Ill.
F Kyle White Sr. Loras Antioch, Ill.
C Edrick Montgomery Sr. Millsaps Pearl, Miss.

Thats the D3hoops 1st and 2nd team all-americans.

There are no heights listed for the D3 team but I believe there's a big difference in height favoring the high school kids. The D3 team would be 4 to 5 years more physically mature than the high school kids and I'd think they could give them a game. But the high school kids are all major D1 program recruits some of them could step into the NBA and make rosters. There's a difference in talent.

The question would be could the 4-5 years of physical maturity and basketball experience make that up, and I don't know the answer.

But I think the D3 all-star team would even struggle. The advantage for a top 10 D3 team would be that they are a team and have practiced and played together.

Same answer though I don't know if the experience and age would be enough to beat that kind of pure talent.

Mr. Ypsi · January 22, 2009, 11:48:10 PM

Actually, if the NBA still allowed it, some of those hs teams have 1-3 players who would be immediately drafted. I doubt even top d3 teams would defeat most top 10 hs teams.

Now, the second ten ...

sac · January 22, 2009, 11:51:11 PM

wow totally misread it........

I don't know where Detroit Country Day ranks in USA Today's poll but they have as many as 9 D1 prospects on their roster. Some of those HS's are loaded.

Mr. Ypsi · January 22, 2009, 11:59:45 PM

Quote from: sac on January 22, 2009, 11:51:11 PM
wow totally misread it........

I don't know where Detroit Country Day ranks in USA Today's poll but they have as many as 9 D1 prospects on their roster. Some of those HS's are loaded.

Many of the HSs that are perennially in the top 10 recruit from the entire country. While Country Day is extremely highly regarded academically, some of them are basketball academies with academic accompaniment. Due to the 'men vs. boys' component, top d3 teams could probably more than hold their own against 'real' high schools, but not some of the academies.

ephoops · January 23, 2009, 01:26:42 PM

For example, if you look at the starting five for Mater Dei High in Orange County, CA, they will be attending

North Carolina - Twins who are 6'11"
Stanford - 6'8" swingman
UCLA - SG
USC - PG

This team would be a tough match up for any D-3 team...

FisherDynasty · January 29, 2009, 12:11:01 PM

I think the High school allstar team would beat the d3 all start team based on talent and athelticism. There is a huge descripancy that age and experience cannot match in full.

However, I think the d3 top 5 would beat the high school top 5. I think non-allstar high school teams will be weaker on the bench as well as 1-2 spots in the starting line up. D3 teams are much stronger and mature and have a much higher bball IQ. Most top high schools have 5 d1 kids and 3 real stars but just because a kid is a d1 high school player doesn't mean he is better than a d3 senior, they usually have a high upside but are not as complete. Many of the d1 kids listed on those schools are also jr's and sophs who will be great, thats why they have the offers, but are not currently D1 caliber at their current ages. I think the top 5 d3 teams would win by double digits. when you get down to the 6-10 teams i think it would be pretty close.

raptor31 · February 26, 2009, 12:02:00 AM

The high school team wouldn't be able to stay with the d3 guys in a basketball sense. The d3 guys are 4 or 5 yrs older and more mature. The high school guys would make some unreal plays but I have seen some form of this scenario play out during camp staff games and the older, more experienced, less talented older guys seem to always win.

Every year we at camp with Coach Hurley we have a staff vs St Anthony HS game. Our team is made up of mostly former d3 and d2 guys (most a few years away from playing shape) and each year in a 7 game series the older guys find a way to win. Two summers ago we were playing against the 2008 National Championship squad that sent six seniors on to play d1 basketball and had a junior (Dom Cheek) that will be at Nova next year. We won the series 4-2. Now you could say these aren't controlled games and maybe the guys aren't playing hard but trust me those kids are going all out and definitely playing hard because the last thing they want to do is lose to a bunch of washed up guys.

This past summer the team had three 6'8 kids and athletes all over the court and we washed the court with them. They had one game in which Dom hit just about everything he threw up to beat us but we continually screened them, boxed them, moved to find good shots and just out bball IQed them to win.

To me this is a small sample set of how years of experience and learning how to play high level team basketball is going to beat out athletes. Now there is no disputing these kids after just one or two more years of experience and college coaching would wipe the floor with us just like the High School guys would with the D3 guys but if the game was played during the HS senior years I take the d3 guys. Those extra years make all the difference!!

Coach C · March 07, 2009, 11:01:20 AM

It would probably be close, but I have to think that the talent level of the 5ht year seniors lots of these places like Oak Hill and American Christian have would make the difference. i saw most of the guy listed above play, and the HS talent level is far superior.

I'll give some points to the D3 boys for maturity and cunning, but in the end talent usually wins out and a well-coached HS all-American team is going to be a well-coached D3 all-American team most night. Speed kills and size and speed kill painfully. Andrew Olsen was a great D3 player, but Tyreke Evans would be by him so fast Olsen would look silly. The other issue is the size of the HS kids setting screens and creating scoring lanes. My guess is that the D3 kids would work pretty hard on D, but I can't see them being able to hold down guys who could be playing every night in the NBA.

CCIWchamps · April 14, 2009, 11:58:44 AM

Quote from: sac on January 22, 2009, 11:46:18 PM
FIRST TEAM (Name, School, City, Height)
Brandon Jennings - Oak Hill Academy - Mouth of Wilson, Va. - 6'2"
Samardo Samuels - St. Benedict's - Newark, N.J. - 6'9"
Tyreke Evans - American Christian - Aston, Pa. - 6'6"
Jrue Holiday - Campbell Hall - North Hollywood, Calif. - 6'4"
Tyler Zeller - Washington - Washington, Ind. - 7'0"
Al-Farouq Aminu - Norcross - Norcross, Ga. - 6'9"
B.J. Mullens - Canal Winchester - Canal Winchester, Ohio - 7'1"
Demar DeRozan - Compton - Compton, Calif. - 6'6"
William Buford - Libbey - Toledo, Ohio - 6'5"
Greg Monroe - Helen Cox - Harvey, La. - 6'10"

Thats last springs Parade high school all-american team.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pos. Name Yr. School Hometown
G Andrew Olson Sr. Amherst San Diego, Calif.
G Kent Raymond Jr. Wheaton (Ill.) New Palestine, Ind.
G James Cooper Sr. Wooster Springfield, Ohio
F Troy Ruths Sr. Washington U. Sugar Land, Texas
C Ben Strong Sr. Guilford Chapel Hill, N.C.
G Anthony Williams Sr. Plattsburgh State Brooklyn, N.Y.
G Nick Shattuck Sr. Ursinus Ardlsey, Pa.
F Larry Welton Sr. Aurora Chicago, Ill.
F Kyle White Sr. Loras Antioch, Ill.
C Edrick Montgomery Sr. Millsaps Pearl, Miss.

Thats the D3hoops 1st and 2nd team all-americans.

There are no heights listed for the D3 team but I believe there's a big difference in height favoring the high school kids. The D3 team would be 4 to 5 years more physically mature than the high school kids and I'd think they could give them a game. But the high school kids are all major D1 program recruits some of them could step into the NBA and make rosters. There's a difference in talent.

The question would be could the 4-5 years of physical maturity and basketball experience make that up, and I don't know the answer.

But I think the D3 all-star team would even struggle. The advantage for a top 10 D3 team would be that they are a team and have practiced and played together.

Same answer though I don't know if the experience and age would be enough to beat that kind of pure talent.

This is a really interesting thread. The one point that I think sticks out in the HS kids is that all the good players are taller than average... 6'9" and 7'1" ?? As I've seen in HS games, height really trumps any other factor. You're still playing against 5'8" - 6'2" people. There is plenty of athleticism, but I think a lot of the scrawny high schoolers consist mostly of getting to the hole or shooting over shorter people. You put a 22 year old with 35 lbs of muscle on him, and that kid isn't getting to the hole quite so easily. I'm imaging 1995's Kevin Garnett running into Jeff Skempf.

I don't know that it would be a blow out, but the D3 would bring a more balanced game. They'd hold them for a while until the athleticism of the HS figured out how to get some points. It would be really interesting and I'm tempted to lean towards D3. Maybe by 3 after running down the clock and successfully executing a team offense to control the tempo.

sac · April 14, 2009, 01:01:55 PM

Sounds weird but I think high school kids might have trouble if they played a 40 minute clock. The pace of a high school game is so much different than college, one aspect that sometimes catches first year college players off gaurd a little. 8 minutes doesnt' sound like a lot but its 25% more basketball for the high schoolers.

Mr. Ypsi · April 14, 2009, 01:35:12 PM

Quote from: sac on April 14, 2009, 01:01:55 PM
Sounds weird but I think high school kids might have trouble if they played a 40 minute clock. The pace of a high school game is so much different than college, one aspect that sometimes catches first year college players off gaurd a little. 8 minutes doesnt' sound like a lot but its 25% more basketball for the high schoolers.

Not to mention the change from 8-minute quarters to 20-minute halves.

Still, I think the top d3 schools would have little chance against the elite academies, who recruit the top players from the whole country - including that team in Las Vegas which is not even a high school! But I think elite d3 teams could probably handle nearly any 'real' high school (most years, for example, I think Hope or Calvin would probably beat the Michigan hs champ).

sac · April 14, 2009, 06:19:43 PM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 14, 2009, 01:35:12 PM
Quote from: sac on April 14, 2009, 01:01:55 PM
Sounds weird but I think high school kids might have trouble if they played a 40 minute clock. The pace of a high school game is so much different than college, one aspect that sometimes catches first year college players off gaurd a little. 8 minutes doesnt' sound like a lot but its 25% more basketball for the high schoolers.

Not to mention the change from 8-minute quarters to 20-minute halves.

Still, I think the top d3 schools would have little chance against the elite academies, who recruit the top players from the whole country - including that team in Las Vegas which is not even a high school! But I think elite d3 teams could probably handle nearly any 'real' high school (most years, for example, I think Hope or Calvin would probably beat the Michigan hs champ).

I would disagree with that in some years. Not some recent Class A state championship teams maybe but even this years champ Detroit Pershing could probably win a game or two. Nix is 6-9, 280 lbs or more, Hope's tallest player on the floor most of the year was 6-5, sometimes 6-8. Nix will be at Michigan State next year. Keith Appling is a 6-3 gaurd, no one from Hope or Calvin could gaurd him, he'll be at Michigan State next year and probably win Mr. Basketball. Juwan Howard Jr. didn't even play in the state title game from injury, I think he goes 6-6 or so.

One thing to remember is what a big difference a star player can make. I've often thought the difference between winning and losing in D3 can be just one player. Well these guys would be ultra "one players" vs D3 competition. Detroit Country Day alone has had I think 5 state Championships with Chris Weber and Shane Battier. Some of the Flint teams all through the 80's were unreal. Andre Rison was an outstanding player for Flint Northwestern and basketball wasn't even his main sport, that team also had Mr. Basketball Glenn Rice. Some of those A Champs in the 80's and 90's were pretty great.

The high school teams obvious handicap is youth and physical size. But the talent is often much better. Patrick Lucas-Perry was a soph for Flint Powers Catholic and I don't think I saw a faster, quicker gaurd all year in D3, he's 15. I imagine in 3 years he'll be on a d1 roster somewhere. Korey VanDussen for Zeeland East was every bit as good as anyone the MIAA has right now.

I think you might be underestimating the talent of some of the better high school teams in our state. All speculation of course.