WBB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Been a while since the last update.

Rose-Hulman 74 Hanover 53
Mount St Joseph 43 Bluffton 64
Hanover 82 Anderson 74
Franklin Earlham
Transylvania Manchester
Bluffton 52 Anderson 81


Baldini 3-1  12-5
Jester  2-2  12-5
FCGG  3-1  11-6


Conference standings
Transylvania    4-0 (11-0)
Rose-Hulman     3-1  (5-4)
Franklin        3-1  (5-6)
Defiance        2-2  (7-3)
Hanover         2-2  (5-4)
Manchester      2-2  (5-6)
Anderson        2-2  (5-6)
Bluffton        1-3  (6-5)
Mount St Joseph 1-3  (4-7)
Earlham         0-4  (0-11)


Conference games
January 5th
Bluffton @ Defiance 6:00 PM
Earlham @ Transylvania 7:00 PM
Anderson @ Manchester 7:30 PM
Franklin @ Rose-Hulman 7:30 PM
Hanover @ Mount St. Joseph 7:30 PM

January 8th
Mount St. Joseph @ Manchester 1:00 PM
Rose-Hulman @ Bluffton 1:00 PM
Hanover @ Earlham 1:00 PM
Defiance @ Transylvania 1:00 PM
Franklin @ Anderson 1:00 PM

[Baldini]

January 5th

Bluffton @ Defiance 6:00 PM
Earlham @ Transylvania 7:00 PM
Anderson @ Manchester 7:30 PM
Franklin @ Rose-Hulman 7:30 PM
Hanover @ Mount St. Joseph 7:30 PM

January 8th

Mount St. Joseph @ Manchester 1:00 PM
Rose-Hulman @ Bluffton 1:00 PM
Hanover @ Earlham 1:00 PM
Defiance @ Transylvania 1:00 PM
Franklin @ Anderson 1:00 PM

[Jester1390]

Hi Engine I saw your post.  a couple of things. I have never heard about the hope vs rose game before. i have heard grumbling about the Gustavus game a couple years ago.  Your a grown man so you certainly don't need my permission to apologize. I will say however that there should be no apology for having a viewpoint for discussing it.

To the individuals  who when they don't like something insinuate through their comments they want the person who runs the site to shut us down. Get back to your page like only people in Wisconsin and Illinois are allowed on their sacred grounds. How do i know this. Simple twice I have seen well they don't own the site. Of course that means if they did they would ban people and discussion they didn't care for.  My comments have no hate they don't belittle anyone personally.

Its called a DISCUSSION BOARD  that's what sport fans do.  They argue who the great player of all time is.  Packer fans give it to bear fans and Viking fans give it packer fans. Well not so much after last night game.  If you don't like a comment skip it but to say well if i owned the site or lets ban HCAC people from here. What the hell does that even me. I have players in 6 different conferences including D-1 and I root for all my girls.  They are all terrific young ladies I had never heard of the IWU game to this year.  I was talking basketball in general and the person i was talking with who also doesn't have a connection to either team said you should have seen this game.   He ended up sending me video this week so i could see what he was talking about and get my OPINION.  I think its pretty obvious at best case the 3 refs picked by the ncaa for a championship game were overmatched.  Its just not blown calls its such blatant calls and the fact there is none on IWU that are of that caliber.

If your Hope fan I understand you would be upset I  dont think I would be.  I would be oooh we got a couple there but thats the way it goes that's why you play hard for home court. If I was a IWU fan id be seething at the time and then gotten over it and complain for my rest of time how we were robbed. Just like million of football fans do.

Engine i have the videos posted on my facebook not to make people mad or god forbids they smite me but to have a discussion what do you think was happening during that game.  People with small minds are afraid of questions.  Opinions can change in discussions sometimes.  To simply just say on this board  i want to talk to only people i want to and only about what i want really isnt a discussion board in the end.

The best to everyone. Roger have had the pleasure of meeting you a couple of times and your a really nice guy and i appreciate your passion for the game.  Greg even though me and you are trading blows I do appreciate you bringing games homes to families I know how important that is to them.  With that said I will however post on any damn page I want I wont be told what page i can comment on if you don't care about my opinion dont read it. Simple as that look forward to future DISCUSSIONS

engine here is the link

www.facebook.com/chris.jester.90/

[Jester1390]

jan 5th

defiance
transylvania
anderson
rose
mt st joe

8th
mt s tjoe
rose
transylvania
hanover
franklin

[Gregory Sager]

I have never said that you couldn't post on the CCIW board, Chris. Never, ever, ever. In fact, twice now I've said the exact opposite.

It's not my board, it's Pat Coleman's. He's the only one with say-so as to who can post and who can't.

And I don't know to whom you're pointing with this:

To the individuals  who when they don't like something insinuate through their comments they want the person who runs the site to shut us down.

... but if that's directed at me I have insinuated no such thing. I have no interest whatsoever in shutting you or anyone else down.

You keep posting about a game that happened two years ago that nobody else is interested in rehashing. Even the most rabid IWU fan on the CCIW board has asked you to let it go and move on -- twice, in fact. If you want to keep pushing that game like a terrier gnawing at a bone, that's your business. I'm simply telling you that nobody cares anymore but you. I don't know why you don't get that, but whatever.

The only thing that really troubles me is that you were dishonest about that IWU @ Hope game. You said on New Year's Day that "I had never heard of this game, as it was before my time" -- and yet there is a post by you on the CCIW board right in the middle of that long, long discussion after that game back in March 2020, a post about officers and airmen and solutions and excuses (it was basically a suck-it-up-and-deal-with-the-loss, Titans post). But, hey, I'll get over it. You've got your league's board and I have mine, so there's no need for it to trouble me anymore.

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, HCAC fans.

[Jester1390]

well first thank you for giving your ok for me to continue to be on here,   Now i stand by my statement 100 percent.   I went back found the post. I ironically i found post about you complaining about refs.   Engine posted about the game i knew nothing about either team except from my kid playing IWU . You can see i was more worried about covid shutting rose down in other posts then this game.

Didnt know any of questionable calls so i stated the following and i stand by it.
 
i will simply state what i learned from serving in the military ad what i have taught to my players and kids.  Losers make excuses. Winners own it no matter what the outcome.   Having my daughter play both Wesleyan and Chicago I am quite sure those players are owning it.  Have no clue if bad calls or not didn't see the game but a good coach would say you know what we need to play better and take it out of the refs hands,  A officer  once told me Airman were looking for solutions not excuses. Never forgot  those words and they have served me well.

Well i felt that way to I saw the video. Once the facts changed i changed my opinion.  Just to make clear it wasn't engine the person who sent me the film clips but a person who loves college basketball and just is flabbergasted this could happen.  We dont think the game was fixed but are interested on the pressure on refs and the human condition in a packed arena.  The only questionable home cooking was the scoreboard for the 8 seconds they didnt run off. The rest were all on the floor.   Again you can say whatever about me. You can deflect but it doesnt change the videos.  It was a 2nd round game.  This has been changed to being correct. The NCAA said these our are 3 best refs. Nobody reviewing those tapes can say that they officiated at a level required for the caliber of game. This wasnt Rose vs Earlham

[Roundball999]

I won't continue to debate the particulars; I have no interest and I told you I simply disagree with your black and white interpretation of those hand selected clips.

But I will correct another error; this was not an NCAA championship game nor did anyone say these were NCAA's 3 best refs.  This was a 2nd round (round of 32) game.

[Jester1390]

 well thats my mistake i thought it was a championship game that  is kind of a big deal.  Doesn't change the video but that explains why there wasnt a firestorm i saw.  Explains a little why IWU fans are not as mad I couldn't understand how they wouldnt be more upset at losing a championship

That's on me i just assumed it was a championship game.  Like i said never heard of the game or saw the game to others started posting.  Video isnt cherry picked . I didn't invent it,

[Roundball999]

Someone with an agenda took the time to painstakingly parse through the game video, copy specific clips of certain plays and not others, save those clips then forward them to others.  That is the very definition of cherry picking.  Doesn't matter if it was you or someone else.  That is why I never cared to look at your clips, the entire game including those last minutes is available on YouTube for anyone who cares to look at the game in it's full context.

I don't understand how you can keep saying you never heard of the game when you commented about the game and the ref controversy at the time. 

I am fully expressed on this topic

[Jester1390]

I already explained how I heard about the game your making me into a conspiracy lol. everyone plotting against hope.  Its ok  you don't believe the clips of the actual game somehow because its a clip its not real.  I guess someone put time into it. I know i certainly did trying how to get it posted but that was because you guys were saying it wasnt real i was making it up including  the non travel call.  I know the person who discussed this with me is amazed by the game. There interested in how it can come about. want to watch live game footage go to 39 seconds left watch the player take 2 steps in a tied game and not get called for traveling. Not even close no arguing with it.    go to 4.14 lef tin 4th quarter 67-59 iwu winning count the seconds from inbound till clock starts. 7 seconds. again watch live no clip i can go on and on

If you don't think that is a travel then i dont know what to say

[Jester1390]

Update on rose-hulman game   Landed in chicago last night to drive to terre haute for today's game against Franklin and got a call that a second player tested positive for Covid.  Game might be cancelled

At this time it has not and I was told the following

Meeting this morning among Presidents, AD's and others to decide HCAC Covid protocols ...for competition....NCAA meeting was yesterday.
Constituents meeting today to take NCAA stuff under advisement and shape HCAC policy for remainder of school year

Side note nothing to do with basketball I had to get on a flight last night as mine was cancelled today. The guy next to me on the flight was trying to get to Dallas and had 4 flights cancelled and been stuck since Saturday. What a mess

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

There are a bunch of leagues meeting today to discuss policy changes.

[Enginerd]

Hi Engine I saw your post.  a couple of things. I have never heard about the hope vs rose game before. i have heard grumbling about the Gustavus game a couple years ago.  Your a grown man so you certainly don't need my permission to apologize. I will say however that there should be no apology for having a viewpoint for discussing it.

To the individuals  who when they don't like something insinuate through their comments they want the person who runs the site to shut us down. Get back to your page like only people in Wisconsin and Illinois are allowed on their sacred grounds. How do i know this. Simple twice I have seen well they don't own the site. Of course that means if they did they would ban people and discussion they didn't care for.  My comments have no hate they don't belittle anyone personally.

Its called a DISCUSSION BOARD  that's what sport fans do.  They argue who the great player of all time is.  Packer fans give it to bear fans and Viking fans give it packer fans. Well not so much after last night game.  If you don't like a comment skip it but to say well if i owned the site or lets ban HCAC people from here. What the hell does that even me. I have players in 6 different conferences including D-1 and I root for all my girls.  They are all terrific young ladies I had never heard of the IWU game to this year.  I was talking basketball in general and the person i was talking with who also doesn't have a connection to either team said you should have seen this game.   He ended up sending me video this week so i could see what he was talking about and get my OPINION.  I think its pretty obvious at best case the 3 refs picked by the ncaa for a championship game were overmatched.  Its just not blown calls its such blatant calls and the fact there is none on IWU that are of that caliber.

If your Hope fan I understand you would be upset I  dont think I would be.  I would be oooh we got a couple there but thats the way it goes that's why you play hard for home court. If I was a IWU fan id be seething at the time and then gotten over it and complain for my rest of time how we were robbed. Just like million of football fans do.

Engine i have the videos posted on my facebook not to make people mad or god forbids they smite me but to have a discussion what do you think was happening during that game.  People with small minds are afraid of questions.  Opinions can change in discussions sometimes.  To simply just say on this board  i want to talk to only people i want to and only about what i want really isnt a discussion board in the end.

The best to everyone. Roger have had the pleasure of meeting you a couple of times and your a really nice guy and i appreciate your passion for the game.  Greg even though me and you are trading blows I do appreciate you bringing games homes to families I know how important that is to them.  With that said I will however post on any damn page I want I wont be told what page i can comment on if you don't care about my opinion dont read it. Simple as that look forward to future DISCUSSIONS

engine here is the link

www.facebook.com/chris.jester.90/

Ok Jester - please read this, take it in, and let's move on, huh? I agree with you that it was a poorly officiated final 11-12 minutes - especially when you take the recently-unearthed travel at the 30-second mark left in the game. It truly is horrifying that the official didn't see something that blatant - it's the kind of travel that winds up on Sportscenter or Twitter when LeBron or RB does it in a meaningless NBA game - and I also never noticed the 7-second delay in starting the clock when Hope was down 9 with around 4 minutes to go. I'm actually pretty disappointed in myself that I did not notice it when it happened. Yes, there were a great many calls and no-calls that probably ought to wind up in some kind of officials' training video - anyone with a few extra hours could go over those final minutes and make a moment-by-moment indictment of the officiating crew - and that's including a REALLY bad no-call early in the 4th where Brovelli almost took a Hope kid's head off without a whistle. I don't have the time it happened in the game but honestly in a game full of poor calls and no-calls, the worst one might have been to IWU's benefit.

Yes, Jester, the officiating was horrible, but I just don't think an honest assessment can be made that the officials cost IWU the game. I think that's where you've gotten sideways with everyone here (beyond the fact that there's no appetite to re-hash the game two years later). Nobody wants to hear the officials get blamed for a team's loss - we've all been taught from childhood to own our mistakes and resolve to be better next time - and blaming officials is the exact opposite of that ethos. If you want to objectively evaluate the officials' performance I think it's fair game - but when it becomes an "IWU got screwed by the refs and Hope didn't deserve to win" it sounds way too much like Donald Trump's lawyers trying to find more votes in Michigan and Arizona. I think you meant your original post to be about the former and not the latter - the problem is there is no way for folks in a board like this to know the difference or what your motivations are.

Here's the truth. In going back and looking at that game again after this most recent conflagration I noticed a few OTHER things I didn't see earlier as well. For instance, I had forgotten the absolutely wide-open layup that Brovelli missed immediately after the  should've-been-a-travel by Schoonveld that led to the should-have-been-a-held-ball that led to the OB under play where Hope finally took the lead. Wide-open. It was missed. Even after all that ineptness on the part of the crew IWU STILL had a chance to tie things back up and they missed. That missed bunny wasn't the crew or the clock operator's fault. Also not the crew or the clock operator's fault were the three inexplicable turnovers inside that final 4 minutes or so - one of which led to a wide-open made 3 and another that resulted in a transition layup. I've seen plenty of IWU over the years and I'll say this, they've always been very capable and fearless teams offensively - but in those final minutes they looked like a middle-school team flailing against the town's high school kids - Hope is insanely long and they just kept throwing in right into the outstretched hands of the Hope players. IWU lost it's mind offensively at the worst possible time.

I agree, the officiating was horrible in the final few minutes. I'll always think of it as one of the most poorly-officiated 11 minutes of basketball I've ever seen - but you cannot lay the Hope victory at the officials' feet - and nobody but IWU is responsible for the two missed free throws, the three really bad turnovers, and the incredible missed bunny - all of which occurred in the final 4'ish minutes.

It's tough to play on the road in that kind of environment. I'm sure it's also tough to officiate the same. There's a reason for the old adage that the home team begins with a 15-point advantage. That's what happens on the road sometimes. Having said that, despite all the crap thrown at them, IWU was presented a few things by the "basketball gods" to even things out, and they couldn't take advantage of them.

At the end of the game Hope was able to capitalize on the opportunities that the game provided and IWU couldn't. It's that simple. Hope was the better team that night and they won the game.

Now - let this go and let's move on and discuss what's happening THIS year!

[Enginerd]

I just hope we get to watch some more Division III basketball. Surely they wouldn't shut things down again like they did in 2020 but you never know. Division I will keep on trucking - too much money at stake.

[Jester1390]

I think you will see the very liberal campuses. Like NYU shut down.   Naia will keep rolling.  I think most of the schools will do what ha sheen happening.  Test and if you can't field a team you forfeit.  Now some schools may shut down due to cost of testing which is a joke with all the money most schools make and there endowments.   I know last year Hamline has Hyvee paying for all their testing