MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference

[slickyquick]

As far as I know the only violation that occurred was when a couple of guys on the team clocked in for work study. Though the players didn't receive any money, the players got suspended for the year by the university from athletics. The NCAA believed that their suspensions were too harsh and granted all those kids another year of eligibility. Then those same players were suspended by the NCAA for the first couple of games of last year.

So no, I don't think that violation had anything to do with his departure. Maybe it let administration think that it was okay to let their best and most successful coach leave and get nothing in return.

If those are the violations that you are talking about then there is the explanation for that. Also, no need to try and copy my name.

[quickyslick]

But were the violations the reason that the administration did not feel the need to Whitmore the money he wanted? The money is obviously there since other coaches have been rewarded for success so there must have been another reason for the admin not to at least counter the Hamline offer.

[slickyquick]

They were deemed minor violations for the basketball program. If you consider what happened with the football team with using a player who wasn't even enrolled in the school. That made FOXSports' bottom line. Now, that's embarrassing. How can administration not check to see if someone has at least 12 credits or is at least enrolled?

Could that whole situation made a difference, maybe. Even before that happened Whitmore was worthy of a raise with his success and never received one. He has had success over time while other sports' (baseball and football) coaches were rewarded with raises and decreases in their other duties, while having less success over time. I think Whitmore has brought more positive light to Brockport than anything else on campus, academics included.

[quickyslick]

It is my understanding according to the newspaper article in the D&C that the football situation was caused by a computer glich in the academic record keeping program and not the coach's fault. The basketball situation was different because Whitmore was the supervisor for the athletes that were abusing the workstudy program hours and pay. The three players were working for Whitmore and according to one of the players, were clocking in during practice times.

It is clear that this was probably a determinging factor in the college's decision not to reward Whitmore for winning a few games. You have to do more than win games to get a substantial raise at the Division III level.

[bimbo coles]

the whitmore situation seems stick, and one that doesn't make sense.. if money was the issue, (don't know how much whitmore made, or what coaches of top 10 teams make).. i can understand that.. like with any profession pay comes with production.. and brockport HAS produced over the past (172-86) over whitmores tenure with the only losing season he has had with the port was his first season 98-99 when they wen't 8-16... whitmore has gained brockport national notariaty taking the port to the national tourney 4 times in 9 seasons, some coaches don't ever get there.... 4 ecac bids.. so 8 out of 9 seasons whitmore has been at the helm brockport has advanced to post season play... so numbers wise whitmore has got the job done, and was well worthy of any kind of raise or money that a top notch division 3 program offers their coaches... i don't think one instance (players falsely claiming work study) would institute such treatment?? maybe i'm wrong but i feel like there is something missing from the equation.. not having really having a real strong knowledge of brockport, or their program besides playing against them a few times in my college days i don't feel i have the authority to probe at what whitmore has built at brockport.. does anyone know what the grad rate of the basketball program was..?? i know at some schools it is not the winning percentage but the character of athletes and the integrity they bring to the program.. i have never heard of such instances with the brockport program that's why i can't piece together the situation.. in my opinion i would say that d3 coaches have few bullets to accomplish:
- recruit quality kids to maintain the integrity of the school/program
- recruit quality athletes to maintain the athletic standards the school has set
- teach players dicipline, how to trust a system, and prepare them for the outside world (outside of basketball).
- win games
- graduate players
- repeat.

if whitmore did all of the above he is a successful coach in my eyes. hamline is lucky to have him.

good luck to the port and whitmore.

whats the SUNYAC looking like this year on paper?? since that's all we really have to go by.

[slickyquick]

QS, come on. A computer glitch, thats a terrible excuse. Usually you can tell if a student is enrolled or not without needing a computer. If they say that then they need to make more frequent calls to admissions and records. I'm not saying that it is the football coach's fault on that but he should at least by aware of things like that, as should as administration. Coaches should at least check on the academic progress of their athletes. Maybe at other institutions someone else checks student-athletes academic progress, but I believe at D3 most coaches do that themselves.

As far as Whitmore being in charge on the work study program, I'm not sure about that. Maybe he is, I can't confirm or deny that. But again, the guys suspended never received money, hence minor violations.

Bimbo, as far as the SUNYAC goes, 2-time defending champs Plattsburgh and Brockport should be the head of the class. Another two horse race as it was last year. Look for Fredonia, Buffalo State, and Potsdam to make improvements. Fredonia and Potsdam are both a year older and will look to make a push to host a SUNYAC tournament game. Buff St could be very good, just a matter of meshing all their pieces (isn't that always the case). I'm sure Oswego will be right up there. Has anyone heard if Perioli is making a comeback? If he does, that pushes Oswego right back to the top. Yes...he's that good.

[bimbo coles]

slicky - i agree with the top 2... team i like is geneseo, i am a big fan of morton and this could be the year they have their coming out.. i could also be very wrong on that one as well, i pick them for my dark horse.. i was never a fan of buff state... always loads of tallent over the past 3-4 years, never make much noise though... i do like oswego this year as well with perioli back saw him play this summer and he looked better than ever, i don't like their size.. they are a grind it out kind of team, but it's hard to grind when you don't have the muscle or size... they will be guard loaded, not much else.. i would have to say top 5 teams in SUNYAC are brockport, potsdam, plattsburg, oswego, geneseo.. any word on morrisville.. i'm curious to see how they will fare in first year SUNYAC test.

[slickyquick]

You are right Bimbo, I always forget about Geneseo for some reason. They have a couple of really good juniors in Morton and Howe. Howe might be one of the better bigs in the conference if he has developed like I thought he would. I'm not as familiar with their other players but those two kids are very good.

[notquickorslick]

Sorry slickyquick, but I did a little research and your facts are not exactly accurate.  Several years ago, the football coach at Brockport went from a 10-month contract to a 12-month contract and thus his salary was raised to reflect that.  He has also received several merit increases (I believe they are referred to as DSI's at Brockport), as has the baseball coach.  Other than the DSI's and the regular yearly percentage raise, the baseball coach has never had a raise for as long as he's been there (at least 10 years).  As far as the extra duties are concerned, the consensus is that Whitmore always had the least on his plate out of all the full-time coaches.

Since you are so well-informed of Whitmore's situation, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned that he went from 12-months to 10-months a few years ago without a decrease in salary, which in effect turns out to be a substantial raise when you consider his average monthly salary.  He also has received multiple DSI's, and the administration approved his request to pocket money from his summer camps, which is something that no other Brockport coach is permitted to do.

I know Coach Whitmore has been singing the blues lately about his so-called "mistreatment" at Brockport, but don't let him fool you.  His situation isn't nearly as bad as he would have everyone believe.

[quickyslick]

Plattsburgh must be considered the team to beat in the SUNYAC. They beat B-Port at B-Port in the SUNYAC finals last year and have a majority of the key players back. Brockport (with or without Whitmore) is the only team that will give them a fight. The talent is still there in B-port but the team could be without at least one of its outside threats. They still have a host of perimeter shooters and Williams and Parrish inside. Whitmore built a solid and deep squad and Dunne says he is going to play the same style. Not many teams can run with Brockport for 40 minutes.

[slickyquick]

Now people are making up names to try and question me. Thats fine, I have no problem with that. I'm not close enough to the situation to know all the pay scale stuff but I did hear through the grapevine that the football received a $30,000 raise a couple of years ago when he was about to leave for Mansfield, he was also promised a turf field. Now, as that new guy says moving from a 10 month position to a 12 month position increases salary, I can agree with that, but by $30,000 that's completely irrational or was that a computer glitch too. The reasoning behind the raise was that football was a "money" sport. Its D3 and no sport is a money sport, football is more of a burden then anything.

It is all about keeping up with the Joneses now and if you aren't willing to pay then you will lose coaches. They paid up for the football coach and the football team has done nothing but be .500 since then. Yes, he did make the NCAAs for 4 straight years, but it's not the same when you are competing with about half as many teams.

As far as the camp situation goes, it is common knowledge that money from basketball camps throughout the country to the coaches after the state gets you on the taxes. It doesn't matter what level you are at D1, D2, or D3 camp money goes to the head coaches. That is just common practice, so it isn't an exemption. I'm sure that the wrestling coach gets his fair share of money from the camps that he runs.

On top of Whitmore having much success on the court, he has developed several coaches throughout the Section V area. All league players are a yearly thing with Whitmore. He has produced severeal All-Americans, Mark Wadams (twice), Mike Medbury (twice), Charlie Croff, and Ben Bellucci. He has also had a couple of professional players in Mike Medbury, Ben Bellucci , and Jerry Cheeves. Graduation rates aren't recorded in D3 like they are in D1 but I'm sure his is quite high. He has also raised a substantial amount of money for cancer research with his team the past two years. I did a little research on my own and noticed that his team was 2nd in the Champ/LifeSkills challenge among male teams at the school.

[who cares??]

hi

[who cares??]

Congratulations to Nelson Whitmore for his success at SUNY Brockport and good luck at Hamline!  I am confident that he will make Hamline a national contender!
He knows how to win!

As a coach, in the SUNYAC conference, I am embarassed for our profession by the "drama" that is being posted about Nelson's departure.  Please remember that coaching is about working with young and  impressionable student-athletes.  I strongly believe that the "drama" that is being written about on this site is unprofessional and in the end will only hurt the student-athletes at Brockport and Hamline.  They have access to this site and we are not setting a good example of what it means to be "professional".   

[slickyquick]

I agree who cares? about the students, but I'm just stating the facts that I know about the Whitmore situation at Brockport. I understand that players, coaches, and obviously fans of the conference get on here. The difference with this situation is that we aren't saying anything derogatory about student athletes. They are not the ones that are professional and don't deserve the criticism that that the media gives them. I just think coaches and administration are fair game.

On a closing note, I want to wish both Nelson Whitmore at Hamline and Greg Dunne at Brockport in this upcoming year.

[bimbo coles]

i don't think there is any "drama" on the situation... when things like this happen on the news, in sports, or anywhere else, there is going to be talk and opinions... i don't think there was any bashing or derogitory comments towards players at brockport or the coaching staff.. slicky has some beefs with the brockport "higher ups".. and that is fine, to each his own.. but when there are boards like these these issues, (coaching changes, players transfering, and the general opinions of fans, coaches or players) are going to be brought about.. facts make the arguement, not the words.. i will follow suit as well in wishing hamline great sucess, as well as brockport.. however this IS a SUNYAC board and SUNYAC issues will be discussed, i would assume.. there have been some good points made on the issue, and i'm sure everyone will move on from it... not much going on basketball wise in these summer months..

on to the season -
who are the top ten players to watch for this year..
guys that can really make a difference on where their teams place in the SUNY..??