MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference

[magicman]

Speaking for the Bengals..... We would love to play RPI 1-6, at their place as opposed to Plattsburgh at theirs ( as part of the annual home away series that all Sunyac teams play). Both Williams and Middlebury have a win over RPI ( no disrespect meant to RPI). Give us a game at Curry 2-5, Mass college 2-7, Washington college 3-5 ( 3 of the victories that Williams has this season in their non conference slate) as opposed to visiting Maxie hall or Brockport and we will take it. the record of the past 6 teams that Williams has played has been a combined 19-31. Take away Springfields 7-2 and you have a record of 12-29 record for their 5 of thier last 6 victories.

Middle bury isn't much better. Last 4 teams 14-16. Take away Skidmores 6-2 record and you are left with a 8-14 record of their most recent victims!

The Yac schedule/conference is truly 1 of the toughest IMHO this season. I expect a down Cortland to be competitive at Catholic u this weekend and oneonta to serve notice in NC that the Yac is back!

Yac Is Back!!  I like that!

With the NESCAC being at a bit of a disadvantage coming out of the gates (they are not allowed to start practice until Nov 1), I don't think you are ever going to see the top tier teams consistently take on a difficult preseason schedule.  Middlebury attempted a tougher tournament this year and picked up 2 early losses - we'll see if that comes back to haunt them later in the year if they pick up some conference losses.  Regardless, if you look at the NESCAC from top to bottom there is not a team with a losing record in the conference. 

You mention Williams opponents to date but if we look a bit further you'll see their remaining schedule is against teams that are a combined 85-42 (67% winning %) so their weak SOS right now will improve dramatically over the next several weeks especially since they have 3 games against Top 25 teams.  Compare that with the Bengals 73-52 (58%) and you can see that Williams will have a much tougher road the rest of the way.  NESCAC is 2-1 so far this year between the conferences with a couple more games that could flip it around to the YAC's advantage.

madz,

Just a couple of things:

1. The Nov. 1st practice start really doesn't hinder the NESCAC schools all that much. As ballers do at all schools, they are in the gym playing five on five,  20 minutes after their parents have dropped them off on Sept 1st or whatever day the fall semester starts. I know a student who is at a NESCAC school and he was EXPECTED to be in the gym and working on certain things from day 1 of school. That applies to the women players as well. Do they have "OFFICIAL" practices with the coaching staff present prior to November 1st?...I would guess probably not (But remember it's not an NCAA rule they would be breaking if a coach or assistant happened to walk in a gym full of players and gave them a few minutes of guidance . My point is I don't think the NESCAC rule to hold off organized practice until Nov 1st is much of a disadvantage, if any.

2. Sure the SOS for all the NESCAC schools will improve because at  this point in the season, 10 or 11 games left on the regular schedule (out of 12 to 14 that remain) are against NESCAC schools, who have all been feasting on the many lesser non-conference opponents that New England has to offer. Their SOS has to get better. When you get to play a non-conference schedule of 15 games, it's much easier to get those 20 wins and you can usually count on a dozen or more OOC games to put in your bank. Right now the only NESCAC school with a decent SOS is Middlebury at #59 according to Massey. Next up is Amherst at #180, Bowdoin at #232 and Tufts at #235. The rest of the conference is ranked from #252 (Hamilton) to #377 (Trinity). Every one of the schools will drastically improve their strength of schedule because now they are playing each other and they all have winning records, thanks to those easy non-conference games. It really is a self serving system.

3. I'm not knocking the NESCAC, I know that year in and year out they have 2 or 3 or 4 schools that have NCAA tournament potential. The way the conference is set up and the scheduling that each individual school arranges, does give them some definite advantages come NCAA tournament selection day. It makes me wish, sometimes, that the SUNYAC didn't have a double round robin so that we could be on the same page. Notice I said, "sometimes" I wish for a single round robin...the problem with that of course, in a competitive conference, is the inability for a chance at payback for those road losses. It's also nice to get to see the other teams in person, at least once a year, when they come to your house.

Nice to see you over here on our board. Stop by more often. Plus K.         

[madzillagd]

1.  I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the practice start time.  I don't think Williams drops a game to Southern Vermont if they play them with 4 weeks of practice time under their belt instead of two.  I think Midd only loses one of those early games and not two if they had more time.  Not a big deal but I do think it makes a difference.  I can't speak for the other schools but I know Coach Maker for Williams stays well away from the gym for the open gym period and will not speak hoops with the players unless they ask him a question.  He relies 100% on his upperclassmen to teach the younger guys the system, how to do things etc. during that time and no matter how good your leaders are, they are not coaches and can't provide the same instruction a coach would while they are in the midst of playing themselves.  I'm not making any excuses at all - I'm just giving the reason why I think they don't schedule tougher opponents to start the year.  If they had more practice time I do think you would see tougher scheduling.

2.  Any team that is trying to get over the hump has the opportunity to try and schedule tougher non-conference opponents to try and get that edge but few are successful in doing that.  In my mind it all goes out the window when the tournament starts and the top NESCAC schools have proven in this last decade that they are legit teams with their deep runs. Unless they stop having tournament success, there is no incentive for the top 3 NESCAC schools to mix it up.  They've proven it in the tournament which means they don't have to prove it in the regular season (to some at least), even though it would mean better games for us fans.

3.  Keep in mind that there are rivalry matchups within the NESCAC so you do play some teams multiple times as well as the conference tourney.  Williams played Amherst and Midd five times last year for example which is a lot more valuable in my opinion than going up against Trinity and Conn College a few more times.  Most teams have a couple nearby schools that they will always schedule as sort of a good neighbor policy.  I don't see Williams dropping Southern Vermont or MCLA for example because they are both within 20 miles.  While I can appreciate the typical round robin league, I don't necessarily think that it's 'better' than a single-game league.  I'm not sure what value there is in playing Fredonia twice and Potsdam twice this year versus playing four non-conference teams.  If anything, you've got to do twice as much scouting for the 4 different teams than you do playing the same two teams twice.  There's obviously value in the top teams playing each other multiple times but like I said, that happens in the NESCAC every year anyway because of rivalry games and the conference tourney.

Been watching a lot of games from around the country so it's interesting to hear the different takes.  Much better than having the same conversations on the same board every year 

[Bengalsrule]

PS I couldn't help but notice that Geneseo is playing @ Puget Sound in Tacoma Washington on 12/30 for a 1 game trip? I'm wondering if there is a 2nd game that is not posted yet on the SUNYAC schedule. Seems like 1 helluva journey for 1 game! I could be wrong. Heck I bet the Bills to win the superbowl this past  summer   so I have been wrong before!

If you would have looked at Geneseo's schedule you wouldn't have to wonder!!   Since they already have 25 games listed, you, of all people, would know that they certainly don't want to schedule #26.

But I do agree with you...it's a hell of a road trip for 1 game.

5,354 mile "road" trip... for 1 game.... to be exact!! They probably would have been better off, $$$ wise, with just 24 games?

I think I know why Geneseo made that trip to Puget sound. The following is a posting for next year from Puget Sound....

University of Puget Sound
Doug McArthur Classic 2014

Dates: November 21st -22nd 2014
Opponents: Puget Sound and PLU (2 West Region Teams)
Guarantee: $4,000- Hotel Rooms- T-Shirts- Meals after games- All Tournament Team


Guarantee 4k plus hotel? And it looks like they added a team. If this was the same incentive that they offered for this season then a 5,254 mile road  trip makes a "little" more sense.

[magicman]

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some number crunchers at Buffalo State, at this very moment, trying to figure out what the actual cost of the trip will be once they factor in the 4K, free rooms and meals. I may have to alert the Plattsburgh State Coaching staff to this opportunity so they can cash in before the Bengals do.  

[thebear]

Be Nice, I am one of the aforementioned number crunchers.

Not sure why Puget Sound is paying out of region teams, and they have minimal impact on SOS & Selection.

[Bengalsrule]

Be Nice, I am one of the aforementioned number crunchers.

Not sure why Puget Sound is paying out of region teams, and they have minimal impact on SOS & Selection.

Good question ther Bear! I cant find another offer like this 1 on the boards. There has got to be enough teams in that neck of the woods to fill a 25 game schedule. Even a new tourney in the Bahamas isnt offering that kind of incentive!

[magicman]

Three games on the schedule for today

Jan. 4

Cortland State  at Catholic University   4:00 PM

A month ago I was convinced that Cortland could go down to DC and win this game. Now after consecutive losses to less than stellar competition, I'm totally confused by this Red Dragon team. Catholic University comes into this game with a 5-4 record but their 4 losses have come at the hands of better teams that the 2 that recently beat Cortland. The oddsmakers have made the Cardinals a 4 point favorite in this contest. I can't pick the Red Dragons here since they have burned me twice, so I'll take the Catholic Cardinals and hope that I'm wrong. The final will be something like 74-69.   

New Paltz State  at    Hamilton      4:00 PM

I would love to see the Hawks come away with a win here but I don't think it's going to happen. Hamilton has a 6-4 record but they have yet to beat a team with a winning record. They will struggle to make the playoffs in the NESCAC just as the Hawks will struggle to make the playoffs in the YAC. The point spread has the Continentals favored by 6 points, but all 5 of the Hawks losses have been by double digits. Maybe they can pull off the upset here, they are certainly capable, I'm just not going to pick them to do so. Once again I hope I'm wrong but I see Hamilton coming away with the W, 80-72.
     


SUNY-Cobleskill   at   Oswego State      4:00 PM

Coming off a 3 week layoff the Lakers take on their final non-conference opponent of the season. Once again it is another lightweight that occupies the bottom rung in one of the weakest conferences in the country. The Fighting Tigers haven't been winning many fights as they have yet to win a game against a Division 3 school. Their 1-7 record includes a 74-67 win over Bryn Athyn college which is a small Christian college near Philadelphia Pa. that has a total enrollment of less than 300. The Tigers have been competitive in a number of their losses but the opponents aren't of the quality they'll face today in Oswego. Cobleskill did play the Lakers close last year only losing by ten points, 80-70, but 2 years ago they were crushed 107-53. What we don't want to see is a repeat of the 2010-11 game when Cobleskill had the lead 62-61 with less than a minute to play. That's when Laker great Chad Burridge, bailed his team out with a jumper to win the game. Even then the Tigers had a shot at the buzzer to pull off the big upset. The oddsmakers think this game is a mismatch as well and they have the Lakers favored by 25 points. I think the outcome will be closer to the 107-53 score of 2 years ago than the 80-70 score of last year. Lakers have already beaten 2 other schools from this conference by double digits. They've beaten Lancaster bible by 12 and Cazenovia by 30. This one will be closer to the 30 point margin than the 12 pointer. Oswego wins 84-58 even with all the rust these two teams have acquired over the past month.     
   

[magicman]

Cortland leads the  Catholic Cardinals at the half 28-23. Got video of the game but no sound except a solid stream of static.

At least live stats are working cause they aren't showing the scoreboard very often if at all.

Kevin McMahon is the McMan as he has 13 of the Red Dragons' points. He also has 7 rebounds to lead the way there as well. Blaid Estarfaa is next with 5 points.

Steve Limberiou leads the Cardinals also with 13 points. Kyle Phanord has 5.

Four lead changes and a tie in the early going before Cortland, tied at 11 ripped off a 9-0 spurt to go in front 20-11. Cardinals would close to 22-21 but Cortland would stay in front until the buzzer ended the half.

So far my strategy of picking the Red Dragons to lose is working. I just don't need a replay of the crunch time breakdowns that took place in their last two games. Go Dragons breathe a little fire on those Redbirds!!

[magicman]

Cortland still hanging onto a slim lead 49-45 with 3:45 left in the game. This is that crunch time I was speaking about. Let's go Red Dragons, keep it together.

[magicman]

This is beautiful. Live stats quit working at the aformentioned 3:45 mark. There is no audio and the camera operater won't show the scoreboard.  I don't know the score or how much time is left. Pricelss.

[magicman]

Third timeout in the past several minutes and not once does the camera pan to the scoreboard.

Whoop de do I just saw the score and it's tied at 51 with 1 something to go. Red Dragons hit a big three (don't know who) and then after a Catholic miss Cortland scores again but I don't know if it counts.  Saw a score 57-51 Cortland  It's looking good. Won't know anything more until they post a box score. Good job Red Dragons.

[Bengalsrule]

Third timeout in the past several minutes and not once does the camera pan to the scoreboard.

Whoop de do I just saw the score and it's tied at 51 with 1 something to go. Red Dragons hit a big three (don't know who) and then after a Catholic miss Cortland scores again but I don't know if it counts.  Saw a score 57-51 Cortland  It's looking good. Won't know anything more until they post a box score. Good job Red Dragons.

GOOD JOB MAGICMAN!

[magicman]

Final score Cortland State 62 Catholic 56.

The score was tied at 51 when I saw that big 3 pointer go in that was fired up by TJ Hefele. After Catholic missed I saw a made basket on a drive by Lamard Herron and a foul was called but I couldn't tell if they waved off the bucket or not. Teams took a time out and I figured I see how many free throws he got which would tell me if the basket was good but I got a phone call from my auto mechanic (my plow truck was broke down and my van's  battery died overnight due to the 25 below temperature that we had) and he was coming to my my house with my repaired plow truck and a new battery (YAY!!)  so I missed the end of the game. Anyway the basket was good and Lamard made the free throw and the score was now 57-51 which was the last thing I saw. With only 30 seconds left that old fashioned 3 point play was the dagger. Red Dragons hit 5 of 6 free throws in the closing seconds to make the hosts wish they had chosen one of the other teams to play in the 1st round of their tournament.

Cortland will play Misericordia Cougars tomorrow in the championship game. The Cougars defeated St. Joseph's (Me.) by a 68-65 score in the first game of the day.

Kevin McMahon led the Red Dragons with a double double of 19 points and 11 rebounds. Blair Estarfaa was next with 18 points and 8 rebounds. Cortland took pretty good care of the ball only committing 9 turnovers to 10 for Catholic, but the Dragons didn't share the ball well as the team only had a total of 5 assists. They outrebounded the Cardinals  45 to 32. The teams both suffered a poor night of shooting and ended up with nearly identical percentages. Cards were 35.4% from the field, Catholic was 35.2%. Cortland was 25.0% from 3 point range Cards were 25.9%. Finally Cortland was 75.0% from the stripe and Catholic was 73.%. Both teams made 7 three pointers as well.

The Red Dragons game will tip off tomorrow at 4:00 PM.


This is my quote from a post on December 10th in a reply to Fran Elia:  "FWIW, I think you can beat Catholic. I was impressed with how well Cortland has been playing despite all the players lost from last year's team."

And after Fran told me who the other two teams were in the tournament I said this:  "I'm pretty sure Cortland would win a matchup against those other 2 teams (Misericordia or St. Joe's). Could be the championship game is played on the first day."

So I said a month ago that Cortland could beat all of these teams. Then they go out and lose 2 games to the Utica schools that they had no right losing just to make me look bad I guess.   I knew I had to do something drastic so I pulled the old Buffalo State trick out of my hat and picked against them just as I did with the Bengals went they played in their holiday tournament. It worked then and it worked again today. I would expect some kind of phone call or post from the Cortland SID since I feel my efforts went a long way in helping to secure this victory.

Looks like I was right about that other thing as well. The Championship Game was played today, cause we all know that the Championship Game almost always invovles the host team.   Good job Cortland, win the other championship game tomorrow and I'll almost forgive you for losing both of the Utica games. Notice I said almost.    

[magicman]

Final score:   New Paltz 75 Hamilton 69. Fine job by the RedHawks to take down a NESCAC team.


Oswego 83 Cobleskill 51       As the YAC goes 3-0 on the day. I said it would be 84 to 58. Hard to predict how big these blowout type
                                          games can be but I was close.                                                                                   

[FranElia]

Magicman,

If you picking against Cortland is all it takes for the Red Dragons to win, then keep picking against them!!

I was with you, by the way - I think I yelled at least 10 times at my computer screen: "pan the camera to the scoreboard!!" Trust me, I know about dealing with technical issues (we've had our video and/or live stats go down many times), but with no sound on the broadcast, I was hoping they'd at least show the scoreboard during timeouts. Interesting, too, that they seem to be using the media timeout format for the games (something we only did during the NCAA tournament last year, by NCAA rule, but not during the regular season).

Keep up the good work. Hope you're surviving our lovely Northeast winter so far.

Fran