MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference

[magicman]

Brockport doubles up Fredonia by a 97-47 score.

John Ivy with 23 for Port to lead the way, and he's the leading rebounder as well with 11 boards. John only played 17 minutes in this game as Coach Dunne emptied his bench early on. 13 players scored and all 17 got into the game.

Bobby Bell with 12 and Clifton Lyerly with 10 also with double figures for the Eagles.

Markus Williams had 11 points to lead Fredonia.

[magicman]

Oneonta 78 Cortland 70 in OT

Cortland having problems in extra sesssions this year as they once again lose in OT.

Mikey McElroy was the big gun for Oneonta tonight as he finished with 19 points. McElroy was 4x5 from downtown, had 6 rebounds, 4 assists and a steal.
Jackson Zivic was next with 17 points. Jack Dignan scored 15 points had 6 rebounds, a team high 5 assists and a steal. Dan Lee with 14 points, 5 boards, 4 assists and a steal.

Oneonta hit 15 3 pointers tonight in 31 attempts. They were outrebounded 43-38... had more turnovers 12 to Cortland
's 8 but the difference in long range shooting was probably the determining factor in this game. The visitors had 6 more bombs than Cortland did.

Cortland was led by reigning POTW Kevin McMahon with 24 points and 11 boards.  McMahon also added 3 blocks 2 steals and 1 assist. Garen Spendjian had 14 points and 6 rebounds. Lamard herron had 12 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, a block and a steal. 

[Pat Coleman]

But the non-conference schedule was "very good" by what standards? By SUNYAC standards? By East Region standards? Perhaps. Not really by Division III standards, right? Plattsburgh has played a very good schedule but you can't say that up and down the conference. If you like Massey so much, take a look at the schedule ranking for SUNYAC teams.

[magicman]

New Paltz upsets Oswego 83-75

The Hawks with the 2nd big upset of the night in the YAC

Nick Taldi with 24 points was 5x6 from 3 point range. Taylor Sowah with 18 points and 5 rebounds. Andrew Joseph with 7 assists, 6 points, 6 rebounds and 3 steals.RJ Rosa led the Hawks with 8 rebounds.

Brian Sortino was the leading scorer in the game as he had 31 points for the Lakers. Rashawn Powell had 14 points and 15 rebounds to claim honors in that stat. Kyle Covley added 11 points.

[magicman]

But the non-conference schedule was "very good" by what standards? By SUNYAC standards? By East Region standards? Perhaps. Not really by Division III standards, right? Plattsburgh has played a very good schedule but you can't say that up and down the conference. If you like Massey so much, take a look at the schedule ranking for SUNYAC teams.

Pat,
I have taken a look at Massey for the schedule strength of all the teams in the East all year long and have updated them on this board a number of times. I've also looked at the schedule strength of every team ranked in the Top 25, and do this every week the rankings come out. I also look at the major conferences across the country. Having been a participant in the D3 National Pick Em League for a number of years gives me lots of reasons to check out lots of teams. I look at Massey every day, since it changes every day. I don't think his ratings are the be all, end all for D3 and  often disagree with a number of his placements. But it is a good tool and a welcome website to discover a wealth of information.

You mention... "not really by D3 standards". What are D3 standards? Top 3..Top5...Top 10? I think there are a lot of conferences that you can make the same claim about, Pat. I don't think the NESCAC has a better strength of schedule than the SUNYAC and neither does Massey. Take a look at the SOS for their teams. Many of them are much worse than the YAC teams. The thing is their SOS will get better because now they are playing conference games. The fact that they only play a single round robin allows them to schedule 15 non-conference games and most of them are against considerably weaker competition. By the time they start conference play, every team in the league has a winning record and usually 3 or 4 have 12-0 or 11-1 records, that help them with at large bids, come tournament time. And since they all have such a good non-conference, won-loss record, because of the weak teams they feast on, that becomes self serving for the entire conference, so their SOS can only go up.

I certainly don't think I'm telling you anything new concerning NESCAC, their single round robin schedule, or their SOS. It's been discussed quite frequently over the years. It just seems like they get a pass despite their non-conference SOS and yet other conferences are held to a higher standard.         

Massey has the SUNYAC ranked 13th out of all the D3 conferences. I think that's very good in relation to where we have been in other years. We were as high as #9 in previous weeks this season.

To be ranked in the top third of all the D3 conferences in the country is very good...as a conference. I'll take that.  Obviously their are good teams and bad teams in any conference especially one that has 10 teams but I will take the top 6 teams in the SUNYAC this year and put them against the top 6 teams in any other conference and know that we would be able to hold our own. 

We played over 66% of our non-conference games on the road. Let me know if you can find a conference ranked above us that had to do that.

Again Pat, I'm not claiming we're the CCIW or the WIAC, I know those conferences well and watch them play often online. I probably watch as many D3games as anyone in the country, but I think this year the SUNYAC has got a bunch of good teams and there are several that could do well come dance time.

Most of the people I've talked to seem to feel that the SUNYAC is the strongest conference in the East Region this year. I'd just like to see the strongest team in the East, which at the present time is Brockport, represent our region in the Top 25. After all every other region in the country is represented in the Top 25....I don't think I'm asking for too much to have just 1 from our neck of the woods get in there.    

   

[magicman]

Geneseo State 85 Buffalo State 68

Too much Gordon Lyons for the Bengals tonight as the Knights big man totals 28 points on 11x14 shooting from the field and 6x8  from the line. Lyons was not just the game's leading scorer but also captured rebounding honors with 9 boards. Connor Fedge and Matt Curry both has 14 points and Devon Anderson had 10 points and tied Lyons with 9 boards.

Buffalo State was led by 15 points from Justin Mitchell and 13 points from Jordan Glover.

Bengals were down 6 at the break but with the score 43-38 with a minute gone by in the 2nd half, the Knights used a 10 -0 run to go on top by 15 points and it only got worse from there for the Bengals. The lead grew to 21 and the Knights were never threatened the rest of the way settling for the 17 point win.

[bearnation]

I see that the SUNYAC has a new commissioner.  One of the first tasks is to decide if he wants the conference to be a power conference in men's basketball.  The way the conference is currently set up, that will never happen because the schools play each other 18 out of 25 games.  No respect from those outside because in the end the schools at the top are even with anyone beating the other on any given evening.  Plus long bus rides from one end of the state of New York to the other.  Back when there were only 32 teams making the NCAA tournament the SUNYAC had at least 2 and sometimes 3 schools making the tournament because they has two divisions with a playoff between the top 2 schools in each division.  The east only played the west once.  It opened up non conference game and respect.  With the expanded tournament we should have at a minimum 4 schools making the dance each year.  Will never happen as long as we only play each other.  We need to expose how talented the state of New York is when it come to D3 basketball.  Also, we need to build the conference by added other SUNY schools  that are not currently part of our conference.  We have a SUNY school ranked 17 in the country playing in the Skyline Conference .  What would the strength of schedule be if a team ranked in the top 25 played there games with us?

[NYHOOPS8]

Interesting results in the SUNYAC last night. Makes a case for the depth of the conference being strong but makes you wonder if the league will be deserving of 3 bids like some have posted on here.

[Pat Coleman]

I certainly don't think I'm telling you anything new concerning NESCAC, their single round robin schedule, or their SOS. It's been discussed quite frequently over the years. It just seems like they get a pass despite their non-conference SOS and yet other conferences are held to a higher standard.         

Isn't it more likely that they get a pass because they show up in March year after year? After a decade or so it's fair for a voter to believe that the best NESCAC team is going to show up in the Elite 8, if not the Final Four.

Being the strongest conference of the three and a half in the region is not a particularly high standard. Similarly, the NJAC is the strongest conference of the three in the Atlantic, but that isn't an automatic pass to the Top 25 either.

Who are the strong non-East teams the SUNYAC has wins against this year?

[dcahill44]

Impressed with New Paltz last night. They Competed hard every possession, and did what they needed to beat a VERY good team. Coach Rejniak has done a fabulous job at the helm of this New Paltz team! His enthusiasm and communication with his players was impressive. Look for them to beat teams this year. Little small ball action which gives many teams problems. Could hurt NP rebounding because of lack of size. The Lakers will bounce back

[Bengalsrule]

I see that the SUNYAC has a new commissioner.  One of the first tasks is to decide if he wants the conference to be a power conference in men's basketball.  The way the conference is currently set up, that will never happen because the schools play each other 18 out of 25 games.  No respect from those outside because in the end the schools at the top are even with anyone beating the other on any given evening.  Plus long bus rides from one end of the state of New York to the other.  Back when there were only 32 teams making the NCAA tournament the SUNYAC had at least 2 and sometimes 3 schools making the tournament because they has two divisions with a playoff between the top 2 schools in each division.  The east only played the west once.  It opened up non conference game and respect.  With the expanded tournament we should have at a minimum 4 schools making the dance each year.  Will never happen as long as we only play each other.  We need to expose how talented the state of New York is when it come to D3 basketball.  Also, we need to build the conference by added other SUNY schools  that are not currently part of our conference.  We have a SUNY school ranked 17 in the country playing in the Skyline Conference .  What would the strength of schedule be if a team ranked in the top 25 played there games with us?

Don't know about a couple of those statements there Bear nation. While playing each other twice is a sure fire way to guarantee that 2 teams dont come out of confernce play undefeated, its not unique to the SUNYAC. In fact the top 8 confernces (I stopped checking after that) all play a round robin conference format. UAA (8 teams, 14 games and a non conference winning percentage of 71.6) is at the top of the list. There was 1 game ( I believe) between the Yac and UAA and the yac prevailed. There was a contest between the UAA #1 school Washington and carthage in which Carthage won. A yac school, on neutral turf, beat Carthage. Other conferences such as # 4 Ohio Ac, #5 MAC, #6 Capital and #8 North Coast also play 18 conference games. #2 2 CCIW (which the YAC went 3-0 against this year) plays 14 confernce games and #3 WIAC (which the YAC went 1-0 against) plays 16 games. Clearly the fact that they play everyone twice has not hurt their conference standings, nor some of the teams within thier conference. And yes there were certainly losses by YAC schools to some schools out side of the YAC but when I take the top 8 conferences, with their non conf. record, I am impressed by what I see. The Yac non conf. record of 62.9 % winning percentage was 6th amongest the top 17 conferences. Most YAC schools scheduled a tough non conference schedule and few had what anyone would call a "cupcake" schedule.

The respect is what it is, but I'd be curious come selection time, for arguments sake, Plattsburgh finishes 3rd in the YAC and Middlebury is 3rd in the NESCAC and there is 1 seat left. Who gets that seat? Middlebury who lost at home to Plattsburgh? If so then thats BS! Hypothetical? Yes. Fair? No!

Im glad this topic came up (thanks magic) because its takes my thoughts off of last nights loss to Geneseo .

[Pat Coleman]

Playing twice is not unusual, but playing twice in a 10-team conference does indeed leave just seven non-conference games and not a lot of opportunities to play teams. For Brockport and Geneseo, committed to the Wendy's Classic, that's just four.

Beating Rochester isn't entirely unique this year -- six teams have done it.

[amh63]

Magicman.....on your board to talk a little about your school's next opponent....New Paltz.  However you seem on top of the "rise" of SUNY-NP recently.  Put them on the radar when they beat Hamilton in Clinton for the first time.  Impressive in that both Williams and Amherst had trouble last season in Clinton.  Coach Hixon has say several times that he doesn't know how Amherst came out of Clinton last season with a victory.  Hamilton came to Amherst for their next game last weekend...put up a good fight....Matt Hart is a player, an all conference player.  First team caliber except for Joey Kisel and Aaron Toomey, imo.
In reading the recap of the NP wins, I was reminded of their new coach.....an assist. coach at Amherst from 2007-2011.
Very good recruiter and like the Rochester's coach...also an former assist at Amherst.....a fine coach as well.
Expect your team to win...having said all that   Still interested in your opinion.

[scooterman]

Magic--Thanks for all your insights and facts. I sure hope it not only gets Brockport some recognition in the D3 polls, but all the YAC teams that work so hard to earn it. Every year should be different, but with the shape of the conferences it is difficult to change one's thinking. Keep up the informational posts. Go Eagles!!! Go SUNYAC!!!

[magicman]

I certainly don't think I'm telling you anything new concerning NESCAC, their single round robin schedule, or their SOS. It's been discussed quite frequently over the years. It just seems like they get a pass despite their non-conference SOS and yet other conferences are held to a higher standard.         

Isn't it more likely that they get a pass because they show up in March year after year? After a decade or so it's fair for a voter to believe that the best NESCAC team is going to show up in the Elite 8, if not the Final Four.

Pat,

This discussion started with a reponse to your statement that Brockport didn't have any wins worthy of consideration. You had also stated, in a separate response to other posters, that Brockport wasn't winning against Top 25 teams. I tried to show that there are other teams in the Top 25 that don't have wins any better than Brockport's. I chose Bowdoin as an example and felt that the 2 teams were fairly close in what was on their resume. I feel that Brockport is every bit as deserving as Bowdoin to merit inclusion in the Top 25. I gave my reasons and believe them to be valid ones. You didn't disagree with my analysis.

You came back with a response to my post, which I admit, was quite long winded (a good defense requires a long explanation ), and you focused on one statement that I made...that I felt our non-conference record was "very good". You implied it wasn't very good by D3 standards. You also told me that, since I liked Massey so much, to look at Massey's SOS for SUNYAC teams.  Again I put forth my reasons why I felt the conference was very good, as well as my rebuttal to your statement that the SUNYAC teams didn't have a good SOS. Once more I used the NESCAC conference as a comparison and thought my facts were supportive of my position.

Your latest response to my last post, focused on my statement..."It just seems like they get a pass despite their non-conference SOS and yet other conferences are held to a higher standard."  You bring up this ... they likely get a pass because their best team, year after year, ends up in the Elite 8 or Final Four. I wasn't talking about the best team in NESCAC and the NCAA tournament. I started this discussion comparing Bowdoin with Brockport and why I thought their resumes were similar.  Bowdoin is getting the pass into the Top 25, since they seem to be lacking the same credentials, that you point out, are keeping Brockport from a Top 25 ranking.

Being the strongest conference of the three and a half in the region is not a particularly high standard. Similarly, the NJAC is the strongest conference of the three in the Atlantic, but that isn't an automatic pass to the Top 25 either.

No it isn't, but I noticed that a 1 loss Richard Stockton team with 17 points jumped over a 1 loss Brockport team and into the Top 25 in week 5.  Stockton lost last week and fell back into the ORV.

Who are the strong non-East teams the SUNYAC has wins against this year?

I'm not going there because you'll just come back and tell me all the teams that I think are strong... aren't strong.

Since you asked me to check out the SOS of the SUNYAC I will go here though.

Current Strength of Schedule ranking according to Massey's Ratings.    Best to worst in each conference by SOS not won-loss records

NESCAC                                                          SUNYAC

Middlebury    90                                              Plattsburgh       23
Amherst        127                                            Buffalo State     42
Williams        179                                            Brockport          71
Tufts             198                                            Oneonta           151
Bowdoin        259
Wesleyan       261                                            New Paltz         160
Bates            293                                            Geneseo           197
Hamilton       298                                            Potsdam           209
Conn. Coll     310                                            Cortland          242
Colby            329                                            Fredonia          279
Trinity           352                                            Oswego           312

It looks like the SUNYAC wins from top to bottom. Plattsburgh currently has the 23rd strongest schedule in all of D3 and we have 3 teams under 100. Middlebury is the only NESCAC team under 100. At the other end of the spectrum we only have 1 team over the dreaded 300 number while the NESCAC has 3 teams that high and another pair close to it.