MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference

[thebear]

Tis the plan for '07-08.  Play home & home within 6 team division, play 3 home 3 away vs. all teams in opposite division.
Still yields a 16 game schedule. Top 4 in each division qualify for playoffs.

Will try to get tenative lineup of Divisions. 

Obvious teams:

East:

NP
Oneonta
Plattsburgh
Potsdam

West
Fredonia
Buffalo
Geneseo
Brockport

TBD

Corts
Oswego
SUNYIT
Morrisville

If Corts & Oswego both to West, that Division would be loaded in most years, largest schools, most urban schools, both phys ed schools.

May have details tom'w

[bamm]

Bear -- that's very interesting news.  As a Potsdam fan, you've got to be thrilled.  As an objective observer and being desirous of fair distribution of teams you've got to be appalled.

Potsdam or Plattsburgh would win a basketball division with NP, Oneonta, SUNYIT, and Morrisville every year.  And you could assume that one deserving member of Geneseo, Brockport, Buff State, Cortland, and Oswego would miss the tourney almost every season, while Morrisville or New Paltz might sneak in. 

Nothing against those schools, but like you alluded to -- because of their nature they'll never be SUNYAC basketball powerhouses. 

We'll have to wait for the official word, but if they truly split the league up geographically it will certainly irk some folks.

[Caz Bombers]

What other way is there to do it but geographically?  Since they'd probably use this format for all SUNYAC sports where there are at least 9-10 teams, balancing it out for men's basketball might create an overload in baseball or lacrosse or women's soccer or whatever.

[bamm]

Well, of course it's geographically.  The question is how strictly they follow it.  You could put Morrisville and SUNYIT in the "west", and place Cortland and Oswego in the "east", which is what the Bear was alluding to.

Any drive Morrisville and SUNYIT would have to make to Buff State or Fredonia still wouldn't be as long as the trips Potsdam/Plattsburgh and New Paltz have to make to see each other.

And because of the dominance of the urban/phys ed schools in virtually all SUNYAC athletics, the same argument that applies to basketball applies to baseball, soccer, lacrosse and the rest.

There's a reason you see Cortland and Brockport in every SUNYAC sport's postseason tourney.

[John McGraw]

They use the geographic split for volleyball, where there's the same glut of teams as basketball.

East
Cortland, New Paltz, Oneonta, Plattsburgh, Potsdam, SUNYIT

West
Brockport, Geneseo, Fredonia, Oswego, Buffalo State

My guess would be Morrisville goes in the East and Cortland moves to the west. Though, as people have already pointed out, that's an absolutely terrible basketball division that Potsdam and Plattsburgh would easily dominate.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[gobombers15]

They use the geographic split for volleyball, where there's the same glut of teams as basketball.

East
Cortland, New Paltz, Oneonta, Plattsburgh, Potsdam, SUNYIT

West
Brockport, Geneseo, Fredonia, Oswego, Buffalo State

My guess would be Morrisville goes in the East and Cortland moves to the west. Though, as people have already pointed out, that's an absolutely terrible basketball division that Potsdam and Plattsburgh would easily dominate.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I agree with you, John. However, think of the other sports, too. The West would be unreal for soccer with Brockport, Geneseo and Cortland all in the same division. If I remember correctly, that tourney only has four teams; if they took two from each division, it would probably be the case that the 3rd place team in the West would be better than 1st place team in the East. That's how it goes sometimes, I guess.

[jdex]

Tuesday tussles take high-falutin' Brockport to woozy Geneseo, SUNYIT to Plattsburgh, Buffalo St. to Fredonia, Cortland to New Paltz. Oneonta home vs. Ithaca.

Earlier indicated Corts next week in Pdam for second midweek trip in a row. Actually that's two weeks away. Corts entertain Pdam and Pburgh this weekend

[Bob Maxwell]

One way to get over the difference in the strengths various schools have in different sports AND still divide the divisions on geographic areas so that teams travel is balanced... would be to get out of the box where an even number of teams from each division qualify for the tournament.

i.e. based on the soccer example just given...  Take the top team from each division and the next best records no matter what division the teams are from.  With this, based on the soccer example, one team from the east... and three from the west...

Best teams get in the tournament... if you have 6 teasm in, you could do the same thing with either the top one or two from each division and then take the next best teams until the tournament field is filled.

That would help with the different schools being stronger in different sports...

Also, Geneseo seems to be in the running every year for the Commisioners cup... they aren't a PE school but they seem to complete for the cup annually.

[jdex]

Max,
Don't know about best-records-after-champs theory. Remember, you have unbalanced schedules. A team with a better record would be playing more games vs. bad teams from second rate division. That's if you play home and home in your division, and once against each of other division teams.

Also, am unsure of the phys ed mentality. Being a Cortland loyalist, see how it should and has influenced sports teams. But other SUNYAC members with other majors have certainly held their own. Coaches for sure have a lot to do with that. Their interest, desire, willingness to stay and build a program. Think if you check out successful programs through the years you'll find that type of leadership.

[bamm]

Both you guys make good points.  If I'm allowed to continue to clarify -- some schools in the SUNYAC (New Paltz and Morrisville, for example) are simply not going to compete with some other schools (Cortland and Brockport) athletically, year in and year out, because of the academic and geographic nature of those institutions. 

I don't think there's going to be much disagreement with that.

The other schools that do well athletically have their own unique attributes that help them get kids with talent there (Geneseo's strong academics and unique programs within the SUNY system, for example).

Anyway, the point originally was pretty simple -- a sports division that contains New Paltz, Morrisville, and Oneonta (as well as SUNYIT) is going to be a lot weaker than one that contains Cortland, Brockport, Geneseo, and Oswego -- across the board, in all sports.

[John McGraw]

This doesn't necessarily mean that all sports are going to be split into divisions. Because, not all the schools sponsor the exact same sports.

[thebear]

Link to Morrisville D-III announcement is here

http://www.morrisville.edu/Athletics/NCAA.aspx

It appears from this that they won't be an official conference member for '07-08.

They participate in

Field Hockey
M & W Soccer
Volleyball
Ice Hockey
M&W Hoops
M&W Swimming & Diving
M&W Lax
W SB

and

Football

Also Oneonta M. Soccer is dropping down from D-I, and will likely be a D-III soccer power in future years.

[slickyquick]

The SUNYAC is going to have a tough time figuring out the conference situation. Maybe Mr. Damore will retire before this all happens so he doesn't have to deal with potential fiasco.

As far as teams competing, I think some of it has to do with coaching, facilities, and location. I think that New Paltz can compete within the SUNYAC conference, their volleyball teams have because they recruit hard and get the right people. They now have a new facility. Plus, they are a little over an hour from NYC. If you think about, Potsdam and Plattsburgh's rosters are littered with players from NYC. You would think that NP could snatch some good players from that area. And don't tell me the lure of Canada is helping Potsdam and Plattsburgh recruit. It's really cold up there.

Now, don't get me wrong here, Brockport and Cortland have an advantage because they are phys. ed schools. That is a big draw because a lot of athletes want to be teachers and/or coaches. But why couldn't NP be like Geneseo. They stress academics and still excel on athletics. Geneseo would be a great place if it wasn't for a that terrible floor that use for basketball. I know New Paltz isn't that great of a town but what SUNY school has a great town to go with it.

[jdex]

Brockport 82, Geneseo 70. Eagles out to 19-7 lead. Knights rally via 11-0 tear. Bport to 42-39 half in sharpshooting period by both. Gens within 53-49 before 12-0 Port run. Bport 29x52fg, 8x18 3s. Shawn Harris 14 pts(5x10fg); C. Parrish 13 pts(5x6fg), 5 pf in 27'; M. Wilkes 13 pts(3x5fg); B. Williams 11 pts(4x8fg), 6 reb; D. Maldonado 11 pts off bench(4x6fg); Sherod Harrris 9 pts, 5 assts, 3 stls in team leading 29'. Knights 22x42fg, 6x12 3s, 20x23ft. Returning J. Kling 17 pts(8x8ft); T.Kitson 13 pts; S. Morton 12 pts, 6 rebs, 6 assts. Gens 26 trnvrs

Oneonta 68, Ithaca 62. Dragons lead practically all the way. By 12 in first half but small numbers thereafter including 28-27 half. OSt 23x53fg, 6x15 3s. E. Bratt 15 pts(3x5fg, 2x4 3s), 7x8ft, 3 assts, 4 stls; W. heslin 13 pts(4x8fg); K. Reed 12 pts, 6 rebs; M. Reardon 12 pts(5x7fg), 3 stls; J. Murphy 9 rebs. IC 23x67fg. S. Burton 25pts(9x15fg); S. Leahy 10 pts(4x14fg)

Cortland 73, New Paltz 70 ot
Fredonia 78, Buffalo St. 75, ot
Plattsburgh 91, SUNYIT 76

[jdex]

Plattsburgh's seventh in a row featuring A. Williams 21 pts, 12 assts;T. Gorham 14 pts, 13 rebs; K. Hunt 13 pts, 10 rebs; A.Miller 16 pts; J. Dumont 5 assts. For IT twas C. Reaves 24 pts, 13 rebs; C. LaBoard 24 pts; A. Gilkes 8 rebs. Cards 52-38 reb

Cortland's D. Maggiacomo steals inbound throw and sinks jumper at 0:01 of reg -- 59 all. NP forges 63-59 lead prior to 9-0 CSt run and advantage at 0:35 of ot. C. Niehoff free throw. Hawks miss trey at end. Corts 35-30 at intermission. Shoot 25x76fg, 5x22 3s and get game on 18x23ft to NP 10x21ft. Just 8 Dragon trnvrs. Maggiacomo 15 pts off bench. D. Jutton 15 pts(5x12fg), 4 assts; M. Lewis huge with 13 pts, 15 REB in 33'; C. Niehoff 12 pts(4x17fg); R. Headley 10 pts.
NP outboarded 54-45. A. Foluke-Henderson 21 pts, 12 rebs, 4 assts; J. Hauser 19 pts, 9 reb; M. Irwin 4 assts. NP 28x60fg

Fredonia comes from 19 back. First lead on K. Reichlmayr hoop starting ot. Freds 13 down with 4:34 left in reg. 13-0 run gets 67 knot on T. Alassari ft at 0:15. J. Kane 22 pts(8x11fg) in 24' as reserve; Reichlmayr 20 pts, 7 rebs; Alassari 12 pts, 5 assts, 5 stls. Freds 23x52fg, 22x27ft. BS 38-25 lead at half. Bengals 28x62fg, 13x18ft. D. Mozelle 13 pts. BS left thirsting for program's 1000th win