MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference

[slickyquick]

Pat,

They were pretty good earlier in the year without Harris and Parrish. They were much better with them, but they usually only play about 8 games or less in the first semester. He will be missed but I'm sure Whitmore will have another stud transfer fill his role. And don't let the pollsters screw with their ranking like they did when they made the Elite 8 back in 2002. They should be a top 10 team in the country and next's preseason poll should have them right there also.

[Pat Coleman]

The pollsters are allowed to do what they want, including taking into account any wins the teams had over Top 25 opponents in their bracket on the way through the tournament.

Other brackets were stacked much more heavily by the NCAA and I'm sure voters will take that into account but if Brockport is not in the Top 15 I will be very disappointed.

[ScotsFan]

The polls are fun for the fans but its pretty obvious they mean nothing. Good job to all the coaches and players you were a pleasure to watch all season..

Sometimes it's better to fly under the radar.  As you said, the polls are basically for the fans.  The players are the ones who determine the outcomes on the court. 

I wasn't able to attend last nights epic contest, but I was glued to my radio and Brockport definitely had me worried.  If David Collinge says they're the best team Wooster has faced this season, then I would have to agree in that they seem to have been vastly underrated, as Wooster has faced a bevy of quality opponents including several Top 10 NAIA teams.  In other words, that's some pretty nice praise coming from Mr. Collinge.

Congrats to Brockport on a fine season.  From the looks of things, they should be loaded coming back next year and I'm sure getting to the Elite 8 this season had to be a very pleasant surprise.  I don't think you'll have to be worrying about flying under anyone's radar next season, however!

[gordonmann]

Congrats to the Golden Eagles on a great run.

As Slickyquick pointed out before the game, Coach Whitmore has quietly done a great job with Brockport.  They beat the other two East region conferences' champs on their floor.  They took out Williams and have beaten NESCAC tournament teams more than once now, which is rare in the East/Northeast.  And they obviously played a great game last night.

The Golden Eagles will be ranked.   And they've erased those bad memories I had from being the sole person to vote  them No. 1 a few years ago. 

[bports]

Pat i would like an honest take as to the harris situation last night with the technical foul. He got a T for smiling after the ref had called a personal foul on him. That kid plays with a smile on his face for 40 minutes and you would think the ref would realize that. The refs then made a total mess out of the next 15 minutes trying to sort out who shoots the ft's first. It ultimately cost Bport 1 point after they let #34 re shoot his ft,s and he made both the 2nd time. It seems fairly obvious you shoot the T first with no one in the lane and then you shoot the ft's with the players in the lane. I have never seen a T givin to a player for smiling, and i think a ref has to realize the situation. I would never say it cost bport the game and take away from a good win for wooster but the refs sure did make a mess out of it.

[Pat Coleman]

It only took 7:45 or so to sort out that foul shot fiasco, let's be fair.

I do not know what Harris might or might not have done and unless you are him or were on the floor, I don't know if you do either, since it was on the baseline in traffic.

I do know that when Whitmore asked, the official said "I warned him three times."

I think Brockport got a makeup call pretty soon thereafter just to be sure.

[division3hoops]

Just wanted to quickly say how impressed I was with the Brockport team.  Harris is amazing.  He is unstoppable.  I sat there during the game and really couldn't think of a way to take him out of the game.  I can't believe that they haven't been in the top 25 this year because I firmly believe that Wooster has not played a better team this year.  We played Georgetown (NAIA) and they were extremely athletic but still I think Brockport was the best.  With pretty much all of their team returning next year, they should do extremely well.  Funny seeing how good they were, I think Wooster fans were very taken aback by their abilities.  Good luck next year!

[WooMix]

Is Harris as good as Cooper?

[ScotsFan]

Pat i would like an honest take as to the harris situation last night with the technical foul. He got a T for smiling after the ref had called a personal foul on him. That kid plays with a smile on his face for 40 minutes and you would think the ref would realize that. The refs then made a total mess out of the next 15 minutes trying to sort out who shoots the ft's first. It ultimately cost Bport 1 point after they let #34 re shoot his ft,s and he made both the 2nd time. It seems fairly obvious you shoot the T first with no one in the lane and then you shoot the ft's with the players in the lane. I have never seen a T givin to a player for smiling, and i think a ref has to realize the situation. I would never say it cost bport the game and take away from a good win for wooster but the refs sure did make a mess out of it.

I don't know if this is any indication of what led to the technical but I found this over on the E8 board:

Last night, he was guarding a freshman and ate him right up. He especially will try to get into whoever he is guarding into the palyers head, and talks trash.

I don't know what the situation was as I was not at the game, but judging from the fact that the kid likes to talk trash and the fact that he was warned multiple times by the officials, I really don't think there is any reason to doubt the official's decision to 'T' him up.  He had obviously been getting under the officials' skin and finally did something to break the camel's back, so to speak.  It just also happened at about the most inopportune time for Brockport.

[Pat Coleman]

Is Harris as good as Cooper?

Harris appeared to be faster but I would consider Cooprt the more consistent shooter based on what I saw this weekend.

[FisherDynasty]

Hey Pat, since you were at the games this wkend, what were your takes on Fisher on a rebuilding year? although, the starters sat most of the game due to foul trouble it may have been hard to judge.

[doubledribble]

Pointing out the actions of these referees does not take away from Wooster's win.  They need to be accountable for their egos and incompetence in such an important game.  You simply CANNOT overlook the order of FT shooters in a techinal foul situation in an ELITE 8 GAME.  Not one of those three refs saw what was going on.  It was the referee at the scorers table who finally stepped in.  Their blunder allowed #34 to retake and convert the game winning basket. 

Like PC said, who knows what was actually said down there, but in my opinion, it better have been really really bad to call a techinal foul towards the end of an ELITE 8 GAME.  The players should decide the game and not some official who feelings were hurt because he was smiled at.

This was a crucial part of the game and was even mentioned by D3Hoops coverage.

[Pat Coleman]

Like PC said, who knows what was actually said down there, but in my opinion, it better have been really really bad to call a techinal foul towards the end of an ELITE 8 GAME.  T

This was 13:21 to go in the second half, not "towards the end." I don't think that rises to the standards of officials being required to swallow their whistle.

As was mentioned earlier, either here or on the NCAC board, Harris and the same official had a long discussion on a previous out of bounds play. I'm sure Harris must have had some inkling he should be on his best behavior.

[doubledribble]

13 minutes remaining is more towards the end than the beginning and 12 seconds is not a long conversation.  I did not say that the refs should have swallowed their whistles.  I did imply that, depending on what #5 actually said, lame techinals shouldn't be called in this situation.  It's the case in every sport at every level.  The players dshould decide the crucial games.

What do you think Coach K. would do if this happened to him against Kansas in 2 weeks?  Wooster made an impressive come back and is very deserving, but those errors cost BP a trip to Salem.

[slickyquick]

You would think that at any point in an NCAA game to receive a "T" you would need to do something extremely wrong. I wasn't there and didn't see it but from other people's observations it didn't seem like it was warranted. I did listen to Pat's broadcast, but couldn't gather the same info as I would've if I was there. I'm sure there were other points during the game where Brockport could have done something different to effect the game. It seemed like the momentum shifted at that point and Wooster took control of the game.

I always try to take the PC version on referees decision making in what to call and what not to call, but it is amazing how much what they do or don't call makes a difference in the game. A great example would be during the West Virginia-Louisville (clock issues and traveling non-call) game then also the Kentucky-Mississippi State (lane violation), which both changed the outcome of the game.

Both Tubby Smith and John Beilein took the high road on what happened. They both pointed out other chances they had during the game but bit their lip when it came to officiating.