NCAA Tournament

[Ralph Turner]

I wish that the ASC would split into 2 conferences so as to throw 2 Pool A teams into the mix.  That might give one more travel orphan, in turn, causing the NCAA to deal with 2 travel orphans to throw into the sectional bracketing.

A "perfect storm" allowed HPU to host in 2008.  If GFU were undefeated against D-3, that might have made a stronger case for GFU to host, when the brackets were being devised.

[dothedew]

Ill-Wes to also host. So THAT is what it would feel like as a Hope fan if the NCAA had given HOPE a chance to host all the way thru during the 2 years finals were in Holland....grrrr.
Oh well, LET'S GO DUTCH!

[iwumichigander]

Sectionals will be announced today:

Here are the sites that, by seeding, I feel should be most likely to host sectionals-- 3 of them are not even close, but I am not sure if the NCAA will fly 3 teams to the 4th sectional site.

3 of the 4 sectional sites announced today should be Amherst, Kean, and Illinois Wesleyan.

By seeding, the fourth site should be in Oregon at George Fox, since the George Fox Bruins have only lost 1 regional game all season (to Cal Lutheran), while Wash U has lost two in-region games (at Illinois Wesleyan and at Rochester, respectively.)

Question is:  Does the NCAA pay to fly 3 teams to Oregon this year?   In the interests of a competitive bracket, the NCAA should do so--  Giving the 4th sectional site to Wash U may make more sense economically, but it does not make as much sense from a competitive standpoint.

Updated answer as of 11:20 AM Eastern:  NCAA has just notified Wash U that they will be hosting a sectional.   It made more sense to fly 2 teams and bus Carthage than to fly 3 teams to Oregon from an economic standpoint.

Amherst has been notified that they are hosting a sectional as well.

The sectional hosts will probably be Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and Wash U.

However, this is bad for George Fox from a competitive standpoint--  Wash U has to be a favorite now to go back to the Final Four at Illinois Wesleyan next weekend, as it is very hard to defeat the Bears in St Louis even if you are the defending national champion and have a 6-5 freshman center in the paint.

Deis,
Thanks for the supportive rationale for George Fox hosting a sectional. As long as the current criteria exists with geography and travel considerations, it appears it will take 3 other teams in the sectional being all 500+ miles from each other before they would fly everyone to Oregon.  This is not a reality that those in the Northwest like living with, but what can you do? The common sentiment last night after defeating the University of Puget Sound for the 4th time this year (and 12 out of 15 over the last four years) was that the Bruins would be traveling to St. Louis.

I wonder how much money is saved in the grand scheme of everything between 3 flights versus 2 flights and 1 bus trip?

Savings assuming no group discount fares, leave Thursday and return Sunday on same airline would approximate $ 48,475

Roughly without transportation to and from airport, it worked out to $29,765 to bus Carthage and fly G Fox and Mt Union to Wash U.;  to fly Wash U, Carthage and Mt Union to G Fox in Eugene - $78, 240

In 2008-09 Fiscal Year, the NCAA, net of revenues, absorbed $730, 339 of Division III women's tournament expenses.  From a budget perspective, tournament location is an easy choice - Wash U.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I realize this will sound like sour grapes coming from a Hope fan but I do believe the NCAA really needs to consider a rule that prevents a team from hosting both the regionals, sectionals and Final Four. It creates a competitive disadvantage to the other teams.

[80sshorts]

And it would've been even cheaper to bus two teams to kenosha and fly in George Fox, apparently that never crossed the committee's mind...

[Mr. Ypsi]

I realize this will sound like sour grapes coming from a Hope fan but I do believe the NCAA really needs to consider a rule that prevents a team from hosting both the regionals, sectionals and Final Four. It creates a competitive disadvantage to the other teams.

As sac (a Hope fan) just posted on the MIAA board, in 1990 Hope won 'the big doorstop' without ever leaving Holland.

[sumfun]

Either don't allow to host all three weekends or pick neutral site for the Final Four.  Can't help if it's near a school and one school has many more fans show up, but on the home floor is a huge advantage.  Also can't account for all the spring breaks and which schools will have kids and fans around.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I realize this will sound like sour grapes coming from a Hope fan but I do believe the NCAA really needs to consider a rule that prevents a team from hosting both the regionals, sectionals and Final Four. It creates a competitive disadvantage to the other teams.

As sac (a Hope fan) just posted on the MIAA board, in 1990 Hope won 'the big doorstop' without ever leaving Holland.

I did not know that as I was far too young to have any real knowledge of Hope, D3 hoops or anything like that in 1990. That really does not change my perception though. Admittedly easier to say 20 years in hindsight but it wasn't really fair in for the other teams in the tourney in 1990 that Hope was able to host all the way through.

My "simple" solution would be that assuming the team hosting the Final Four makes the tournament and would be in a position to host that before the tournament starts they would have to decide which weekend they rather host, 1st or 2nd weekend.  Obviously that requires a lot of questions and gambles but it prevents a team from hosting all three weekends while still giving a team that may be in a position to do so the ability to at least choose the weekend they rather host. If you chose the second weekend, you sure better win the first weekend though.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I realize this will sound like sour grapes coming from a Hope fan but I do believe the NCAA really needs to consider a rule that prevents a team from hosting both the regionals, sectionals and Final Four. It creates a competitive disadvantage to the other teams.

As sac (a Hope fan) just posted on the MIAA board, in 1990 Hope won 'the big doorstop' without ever leaving Holland.

I did not know that as I was far too young to have any real knowledge of Hope, D3 hoops or anything like that in 1990. That really does not change my perception though. Admittedly easier to say 20 years in hindsight but it wasn't really fair in for the other teams in the tourney in 1990 that Hope was able to host all the way through.

My "simple" solution would be that assuming the team hosting the Final Four makes the tournament and would be in a position to host that before the tournament starts they would have to decide which weekend they rather host, 1st or 2nd weekend.  Obviously that requires a lot of questions and gambles but it prevents a team from hosting all three weekends while still giving a team that may be in a position to do so the ability to at least choose the weekend they rather host. If you chose the second weekend, you sure better win the first weekend though.

I've got no real problem with your suggestion.  Just wanted to note that, from a Hope fan, it WAS (hypocritical) sour grapes!

Actually, I hoped the Sectional would be in Holland - I would have been there!  Bloomington is just too far away to go two weekends in a row.

[Erm Schmigget]

I realize this will sound like sour grapes coming from a Hope fan but I do believe the NCAA really needs to consider a rule that prevents a team from hosting both the regionals, sectionals and Final Four. It creates a competitive disadvantage to the other teams.

As sac (a Hope fan) just posted on the MIAA board, in 1990 Hope won 'the big doorstop' without ever leaving Holland.

Different era.  Kinda hard to compare.  Under the current system, with pre-determined Final Four sites, the NCAA has an easy task with the rule CHN suggests.  (Hope also played, at that time, on a floor that would be too short for any NCAA Tourney games.)

[bearsfan]

And it would've been even cheaper to bus two teams to kenosha and fly in George Fox, apparently that never crossed the committee's mind...

I would be fairly certain that it did cross their mind but as earlier posts mention there are 4 criteria of which another major one is seeding. George Fox got eliminated based on the high cost despite being a higher seed but Wash U was above Carthage in the final regional rankings and since cost was probably not drastically different, the committee most likely decided it did not want to send both the teams to Carthage based on the seeding criteria. Would also suspect that "flying into Kenosha" means flying into Chicago and bussing to Kenosha which adds more cost over flying into St. Louis where the airport is less than 10 minutes from the site. The additional cost of the bus trip from Chicago might have made the costs much closer in comparison.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I've got no real problem with your suggestion.  Just wanted to note that, from a Hope fan, it WAS (hypocritical) sour grapes!

I recognize most complaints from Hope fans on this issue will be taken with a grain of salt, which isn't unexpected in light of the circumstances. However, I do feel pretty strongly that this set up is not fair and should not be allowed to happen again in the future. It's going to happen this year, fine. But I really think the NCAA should institute a rule to ensure this is the last time.

I'll try to remember bring it up randomly next year when hopefully everyone will accept it is not in reaction to this coming weekend.

[bearsfan]

Wasn't part of the original reason for selecting a Final Four site in advance rather than choosing a host school from the four participants to assure that the tournament would be fairer and make sure that one team could not host throughout as was occuring frequently? If so, seems to contradict the original purpose to allow one team to host. I agree with a lot of the other suggestions to make it a rule that if you host the Final Four atleast one weekend has to be on the road. Even the supposedly easier first and second rounds would add a little bit of fairness to the mix. A great team that is deserving of winning playing at home in the sectionals and Final Four should be able to win the first and second round on the road. I have no doubt IWU would have still won their first and second round games this year if they had been on the road, but atleast it would add a little more sense of fairness back into the mix.

[Title9Fan]

Do we know when they will announce Friday's game times? 

[WUPHF]

I would not worry too much about it Hope College fans.  Illinois Wesleyan is beatable at home in tournament play as evidenced by the last two, or is it three postseasons?

[Please note: the message above is light-hearted trash talk from a fan who is feeling a little blue after the game on Saturday.  Illinois Wesleyan is the favorite, at home, neutral, or away, on the roof of the Beer Nuts factory or in a bombed-out parking lot in downtown Belgrade.  The Titans are the team to beat.]