NCAA Tournament

[Hoosier Titan]

Thrilled that UWSP is hosting, but very surprised. Both IWU and Coe were #1 seeds in the last public rankings. UWSP was #2. Could UWSP have jumped IWU in the final ranking that we didn't get to see?

That was suggested here earlier.  It would be surprising--both teams won out, winning their conference tournaments, and IWU has already beaten UWSP on SP's court this year.  What would have happened to change the ranking?

Not, of course, what IWU would have preferred, but it will still be a great sectional.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Thrilled that UWSP is hosting, but very surprised. Both IWU and Coe were #1 seeds in the last public rankings. UWSP was #2. Could UWSP have jumped IWU in the final ranking that we didn't get to see?

I am not too familiar with the sectional procedure, as Greensboro has never been there, but does the 500 mi rule still have say in the sectional selections?   

[buf]

Thrilled that UWSP is hosting, but very surprised. Both IWU and Coe were #1 seeds in the last public rankings. UWSP was #2. Could UWSP have jumped IWU in the final ranking that we didn't get to see?

That was suggested here earlier.  It would be surprising--both teams won out, winning their conference tournaments, and IWU has already beaten UWSP on SP's court this year.  What would have happened to change the ranking?

Not, of course, what IWU would have preferred, but it will still be a great sectional.

Been kind of a weird week for IWU in general.  Everyone was pretty surprised when the men got selected on Monday.  And now the opposite has taken place for the women (that they are not hosting)

[Just Bill]

Thrilled that UWSP is hosting, but very surprised. Both IWU and Coe were #1 seeds in the last public rankings. UWSP was #2. Could UWSP have jumped IWU in the final ranking that we didn't get to see?

I am not too familiar with the sectional procedure, as Greensboro has never been there, but does the 500 mi rule still have say in the sectional selections?   

Absolutely. The NCAA will always work to minimize flights.

[iwumichigander]

Thrilled that UWSP is hosting, but very surprised. Both IWU and Coe were #1 seeds in the last public rankings. UWSP was #2. Could UWSP have jumped IWU in the final ranking that we didn't get to see?

That was suggested here earlier.  It would be surprising--both teams won out, winning their conference tournaments, and IWU has already beaten UWSP on SP's court this year.  What would have happened to change the ranking?

Not, of course, what IWU would have preferred, but it will still be a great sectional.

Been kind of a weird week for IWU in general.  Everyone was pretty surprised when the men got selected on Monday.  And now the opposite has taken place for the women (that they are not hosting)

We just might be witnessing a little NCAA Div III politics.  By sending UWSP men to higher ranked Augustana; you avoid two sectionals in Midwest/Illinois.  And awarding UWSP the sectional eliminates any complaints (we have already had some)  about IWU playing all its rounds on home court (should IWU women prevail in sectional). 

[Lovinthe3ball]

Pretty sure outside of the who gets prefrence what weekend rule of the NCAA the men's and women's committees do absolutely no consulting with one another on who is hosting and who is not. To say there are "politics" involved in this is crazy. I don't really see how IWU not hosting is such a surprise. A game played back in December could only keep IWU ahead of the UWSP for so long.

[Hoosier Titan]

A game played back in December could only keep IWU ahead of the UWSP for so long.

As has been said previously, both teams won out after the last ranking which had IWU ahead of SP, and IWU's SOS is the third best in the country (and better than UWSPs).  The "game played back in December" was only one reason for thinking IWU had earned the right to host.  I can understand the reasoning that giving IWU all home games might give them too much of an advantage, but that starts to sound like politics.  That's not necessarily bad, but it is surprising.

[Out_Of_My_Kitchen]

IWU had two more losses than UWSP.  UWSP went undefeated in the top ranked conference according to the Massey Ratings.  CCIW was ranked second I believe.

Where are the records that IWU had a better SOS than Stevens Point?  The final weekend IWU played Augustana (7-18), Carthage (17-9) and Wheaton (19-7).  (Combined 43-34 .558)

SP played River Falls (16-11) and Whitewater (21-6 at the time).  (Combined 37-17 .685) 

This may have pushed SP ahead in the SOS?  I have no clue.  Both teams played great schedules. 

SP had more wins against regionally ranked opponents.  There must have been more involved than we know.  I believe that this was very important to the Board. 

By looking at their records, IWU has made the NCAA tournament the last five seasons, and they have been at home every single game!  That has got to be a record! 

[Hoosier Titan]

IWU had two more losses than UWSP.  UWSP went undefeated in the top ranked conference according to the Massey Ratings.  CCIW was ranked second I believe.

Where are the records that IWU had a better SOS than Stevens Point?  The final weekend IWU played Augustana (7-18), Carthage (17-9) and Wheaton (19-7).  (Combined 43-34 .558)

SP played River Falls (16-11) and Whitewater (21-6 at the time).  (Combined 37-17 .685) 

This may have pushed SP ahead in the SOS?  I have no clue.  Both teams played great schedules. 

SP had more wins against regionally ranked opponents.  There must have been more involved than we know.  I believe that this was very important to the Board. 

I'm going from the SOS numbers quoted on the "How They Fared" updates that Darryl Nester has been posting on the Top 25 board here.  As of February 27, IWU's SOS was 0.600 and UWSP's was 0.570.  The only two SOS numbers higher than IWU's were those of Amherst and Bowdoin.  I believe those numbers are for the entire season.  By quoting SOS for the last weekend (involving the conference tournaments) only, it looks to me as though you're introducing a new criterion:  SOS for the team's conference.  I don't think that's on the NCAA's list.  So, yes, clearly there are things going on here that we don't understand.

By looking at their records, IWU has made the NCAA tournament the last five seasons, and they have been at home every single game!  That has got to be a record! 

They haven't played every game at home.  In 2006-2007, the first of those five years, they were on the road for the first round.  They have been at home in subsequent years, and there's no question that they haven't made the most of what should be a big advantage!  However, this year they've already beaten UWSP at Stevens Point, Wash U. at DePauw, and Kean at Kean. They can win on the road. 

[iwumichigander]

IWU had two more losses than UWSP.  UWSP went undefeated in the top ranked conference according to the Massey Ratings.  CCIW was ranked second I believe.

Where are the records that IWU had a better SOS than Stevens Point?  The final weekend IWU played Augustana (7-18), Carthage (17-9) and Wheaton (19-7).  (Combined 43-34 .558)

SP played River Falls (16-11) and Whitewater (21-6 at the time).  (Combined 37-17 .685) 

This may have pushed SP ahead in the SOS?  I have no clue.  Both teams played great schedules. 

SP had more wins against regionally ranked opponents.  There must have been more involved than we know.  I believe that this was very important to the Board. 

I'm going from the SOS numbers quoted on the "How They Fared" updates that Darryl Nester has been posting on the Top 25 board here.  As of February 27, IWU's SOS was 0.600 and UWSP's was 0.570.  The only two SOS numbers higher than IWU's were those of Amherst and Bowdoin.  I believe those numbers are for the entire season.  By quoting SOS for the last weekend (involving the conference tournaments) only, it looks to me as though you're introducing a new criterion:  SOS for the team's conference.  I don't think that's on the NCAA's list.  So, yes, clearly there are things going on here that we don't understand.

By looking at their records, IWU has made the NCAA tournament the last five seasons, and they have been at home every single game!  That has got to be a record! 

They haven't played every game at home.  In 2006-2007, the first of those five years, they were on the road for the first round.  They have been at home in subsequent years, and there's no question that they haven't made the most of what should be a big advantage!  However, this year they've already beaten UWSP at Stevens Point, Wash U. at DePauw, and Kean at Kean. They can win on the road. 

From D3Hoops - "Regional Rankings Week 4
The first record is in-region record, followed by overall record. Through games of Feb. 20.
1. Illinois Wesleyan 17-3 20-4
2. Wisconsin-Stevens Point 23-2 23-2"

The only ranking that takes into consideration the committee's criteria is the one above.  The committee does not consider Massey Ratings nor recent results or records of opponents since last published
rating.

By my count, IWU was 7-2 in region; with only one opponent in conference (Millikin), and wins against WashU, UW-Whitewater, UChgo, Kean, Baruch and Webster.

UW-Stevens Point was 6-1 in region with a 1-1 record outside of WIAC (win over Simpson & loss to IWU). Their 5 in-region wins were over WIAC opponents UW-Whitewater (3) and UW-LaCrosse (2).

IMHO, none of the above had anything to do with determining whether UWSP or IWU got to host the sectional.

[BlueZoneBruin]

Just heard that the UW-Stevens Point sectional is going to be played in the "smaller gym" (Berg) this weekend and that tickets are going to be limited. D3Hoops says that the Pointers primary facility (Quandt) has space for 2,787. Anyone know how much smaller Berg is? Better yet, can anyone explain why they aren't using their best facility? I bet that Coe wouldn't have stuck the sectional in their JV/intramural gym. Imagine if Hope decided to host the next two Final Fours without using DeVos.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

so 6 of the 16, Sweet 16 teams got there by winning 2 games on the road.

3 of the 4 sectional hosts have the best record in their groupings.

I know the question on d3hoops site was mentioning that CNU may have been snubbed for a sectional site.  I don't think so, even though I would be willing to bet CNU has the the best gym of the group.  I do think the LVC probably was the least deserving of the 4 teams.

[Out_Of_My_Kitchen]

Just heard that the UW-Stevens Point sectional is going to be played in the "smaller gym" (Berg) this weekend and that tickets are going to be limited. D3Hoops says that the Pointers primary facility (Quandt) has space for 2,787. Anyone know how much smaller Berg is? Better yet, can anyone explain why they aren't using their best facility? I bet that Coe wouldn't have stuck the sectional in their JV/intramural gym. Imagine if Hope decided to host the next two Final Fours without using DeVos.

Stevens Point women play their home games in Berg Gym, which is going to be the site for games this weekend.  They have been playing in Berg since it was created and the men have been playing in Quant.  Since they were selected to host they can decide to play games where they would like.  I imagine everyone would rather play games in their gym rather than play games at their men's teams gym where they haven't played the entire year.  It helps with the homecourt advantage.

Which facility is better is open for debate.  A bigger gym does not mean it is better in my opinion.  If that was the case then Devos would never host a Final Four because there are surely bigger gyms in this nation. 

And the seating is limited is also open to debate.  I imagine, just guessing, that many George Fox would not be making the cross country trip on such short notice.  Also am not sure with the fan following of either Coe or Illinois Wesleyan.  If there is not a sell out, then it doesn't matter how big or small the gym is.  I believe that a site must be able to hold at least a 1000 fans, so I am going to assume it holds at least that many or it wouldn't have been selected to host. 

Hope this helps. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

^  Can't speak for Coe, but IWU always travels extremely well (at least for the men, but my understanding is that over the past few years it has become true for the women as well).  And since the IWU men got knocked out in round two, there won't be that 'conflict of loyalties' issue - expect the Titans to sell out their allotment of tickets (and perhaps try at the door for more).

[Out_Of_My_Kitchen]

From D3Hoops - "Regional Rankings Week 4
The first record is in-region record, followed by overall record. Through games of Feb. 20.
1. Illinois Wesleyan 17-3 20-4
2. Wisconsin-Stevens Point 23-2 23-2"

The only ranking that takes into consideration the committee's criteria is the one above.  The committee does not consider Massey Ratings nor recent results or records of opponents since last published
rating.

By my count, IWU was 7-2 in region; with only one opponent in conference (Millikin), and wins against WashU, UW-Whitewater, UChgo, Kean, Baruch and Webster.

UW-Stevens Point was 6-1 in region with a 1-1 record outside of WIAC (win over Simpson & loss to IWU). Their 5 in-region wins were over WIAC opponents UW-Whitewater (3) and UW-LaCrosse (2).

IMHO, none of the above had anything to do with determining whether UWSP or IWU got to host the sectional.

Couple things I have questions about.  First off, I do not believe that IWU had more regional ranked wins than Stevens Point.  I could be wrong, but Kean and Baruch are not considered part of IWU Regional Ranked wins. They are in a different region and more than 200 miles from IWU.  So these do not count in the primary criteria.  But I do agree they are great wins. 

Also, IWU lost to WW.  WW beat them in November.  And that Webster game does not count since the Regional Rankings were made before the NCAA tournament started.  I do not believe that they re-rank the teams after the first weekend.  I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure they don't. 

I doubt the politics about this because the NCAA were going to allow IWU host all of their NCAA games year.  I don't know why it would change this year, especially when they didn't make the Final Four last year.  I could see them changing it once it happens, but since it didn't happen there was no need to change it for this year.  I know this wasn't stated in the above post, but I was just replying to one that was stated earlier. 

And to Hoosier Titan, my fault for saying they were at home every year.  I was simply looking at their past history on their website and saw they played Carroll College in 2007 and it wasn't at Carroll College.  I neglected to think about it being a neutral court game which it was.