MBB: University Athletic Association

[Titan Q]

Edgewood Defeats Chicago?

Wow.

http://athletics.uchicago.edu/mensbasketball/uc-edgem.htm

[Hugenerd]

What a horrific start for Chicago.  A day after losing to Edgewood (13-13 last year), they lose to Illinois Tech, who was 5-26 last year and lost to Kenyon in the first round of the tourney.  Oh, by the way, in case you think IIT is any better than they were last year, they are currently 1-3, on the young season, with losses at home to Waldorf College and Grace College.  Chicago is either missing players, or they may just be really bad.  This is unbelievable for a team that was picked to finish 2nd in the UAA in the preseason by the UAA coaches.

[dblock]

Looks like Chicago played the Ill. Tech game with out Corning, regardless I still expected them to SCRAPE I Tech.

Anyway...

Just got back from the Kean University Rock Classic. NYU comes away with to good wins. The first against the University of Redlands, NYU shook off some jitters and some bad post defense to come away with a 69-60 win. (Redlands played Clarion University [D2] and lost on 2 FT's with 3 seconds to go) Sunday's matchup featured an athletic Kean University team fresh off an opening night win over Clarion, versus NYU. NYU came out slow falling to a 18-9 deficit but eventually turned the heat on finishing with a 65-49 win. 

[Titan Q]

Looks like Chicago played the Ill. Tech game with out Corning, regardless I still expected them to SCRAPE I Tech.

Corning played.

http://athletics.uchicago.edu/mensbasketball/ucm-iit.htm

[Marty Peretz]

WUSTL cruises again, taking an 82-64 win in the final of Colorado College's tournament. Aaron Thompson goes for 31 points in a tune-up for the huge showdown coming up with number two Augustana. Should be a classic. I only wish I could be in attendance...

[Titan Q]

WUSTL cruises again, taking an 82-64 win in the final of Colorado College's tournament. Aaron Thompson goes for 31 points in a tune-up for the huge showdown coming up with number two Augustana. Should be a classic. I only wish I could be in attendance...

I wish I could see this one too.  Based on what I saw from Wash U in the UMSL exhibition (and what I know about Augustana), I think the Bears are going to have huge problems with Augie's long, athletic 4/5 guys (Collins, Bertrand).  Wash U is extremely unathletic at the 5 spot.  Also, Augie is always one of the best perimeter defensive teams around - the Vikings should be able to at least make Wash U work very hard to run their offense.  Thompson, Wallis, and Nading will all do damage I'm sure, but it won't be easy.

Augie played its opener without returning 1st Team All-CCIW performer, and preseason All-American, Brett Wessels.  They struggled to beat Simpson.  Word is that he will probably miss the Wash U game - that's big.  The good news for Augie is that 2006-07 star Jordan Delp is now back after missing most of last year with a ruptured achilles.  He basically plays the same position as Wessels - the 2 or 3.

Should be a good one.  I feel like Augustana should win the game.

Here is the box from Wash U's OT win in the NCAA tournament last year:

http://bearsports.wustl.edu/mensbball/2007-08%20Statistics/game27.htm

[Gregory Sager]

What a horrific start for Chicago.  A day after losing to Edgewood (13-13 last year), they lose to Illinois Tech, who was 5-26 last year and lost to Kenyon in the first round of the tourney.  Oh, by the way, in case you think IIT is any better than they were last year, they are currently 1-3, on the young season, with losses at home to Waldorf College and Grace College.  Chicago is either missing players, or they may just be really bad.  This is unbelievable for a team that was picked to finish 2nd in the UAA in the preseason by the UAA coaches.

Throw out Edgewood's record from last year, as this is a completely revamped lineup that features almost exclusively freshmen and sophomores. In a sense that made Saturday's upset even worse for the Maroons, although Edgewood is an undeniably talented team for all its youthfulness. The IIT loss I just can't understand at all (I watched Saturday's games, didn't get to see Sunday's games), as the Scarlet Hawks are only marginally better than their usual twenty-losses-per-year calling card. I don't ever remember seeing a Chicago team shoot so poorly -- 22-69 (.319) overall and 7-36 (.194) from downtown -- and I've seen a lot of Chicago basketball over the years, both good and bad. The fact that it was against their hoops-challenged neighbors from three miles to the north makes it even more mystifying.

The Maroons aren't missing players. They're just playing really, really poor defense right now, and I think that they're still trying to sort out offensive roles in the wake of Nate Hainje's graduation. Jake Pancratz is trying to do too much; Adam Machones is still figuring how how much more he needs to assert himself than he did last season; and Matt Corning, to be honest, isn't getting the calls when he posts up against weaker guards and tries to power his way to the rim. John Kinsella was the best player on the floor for Chicago on Saturday evening, but I see from the box score that he couldn't make a shot against IIT, either. Depth is not an issue, though; Mike McGrath really likes his freshman class, and he showed this weekend that he isn't afraid to use his plebes even when he's behind on the scoreboard.

I think that this was just an opening-weekend hiccup, and the Maroons will round into shape by January. But Wednesday's game at Ratner against Augie could be a real struggle for Chicago, Brett Wessels or no Brett Wessels.

[dblock]

Looks like Chicago played the Ill. Tech game with out Corning, regardless I still expected them to SCRAPE I Tech.

Corning played.

http://athletics.uchicago.edu/mensbasketball/ucm-iit.htm

my bad, completely didn't see his name on the boxscore the first time I read it

[WAS A PLAYER]

There have been a couple of box scores totally messed up. UC had players I have never heard of, I believe they had Corning in there as someone else. The Wash U box score had someone scoring that didn't even go on the trip to Denver. Still, exciting to get the season underway. My guess UC comes ready to play against Augie.

[ADL70]

Looks like CWRU has a long way to go.  Lost 80-68 to Baldwin-Wallace a mid-pack OAC team.  Three newcomers made significant impact.  Reid Anderson scored 22, Bryan Erce scored 10 and lead in boards with 8, and freshman Tom Summers netted 5 boards in just 11 minutes.  Herring was second in scoring with 18, but was only 1-5 in 3 pointers.  I'm hopeful for improvement as the newcomer and vets have more time together.  Skuski was in foul trouble early and only played 12 mins.

[Gregory Sager]

There have been a couple of box scores totally messed up. UC had players I have never heard of, I believe they had Corning in there as someone else.

No, both of the Chicago boxes are correct. The players you have never heard of are the freshmen that I mentioned last night. Their names are Chase Davis, Matt Johnson, and Michael Sustarsic. Joe Guiler, the 6'9 transfer from Colgate, played in Sunday's game but not Saturday's. And the Corning stat lines in both games were correct as well.

The Wash U box score had someone scoring that didn't even go on the trip to Denver.

That doesn't surprise me in the least. I posted a long diatribe in CCIW Chat about the terrible job that the Colorado College Stat Crew operator did this past weekend -- four NPU players who didn't make the trip got entered into the box score by the Stat Crew guy, and the Colorado College people sent a box on Saturday night to NPU that had the game score wrong and the play-by-play score wrong -- and they didn't even match each other.

[BUBeaverFan]

I believe WashU now has a corrected box score posted on their website from the Saturday game versus North Park (corrected for WashU at least).

[dansand]

There have been a couple of box scores totally messed up. UC had players I have never heard of, I believe they had Corning in there as someone else.

No, both of the Chicago boxes are correct. The players you have never heard of are the freshmen that I mentioned last night. Their names are Chase Davis, Matt Johnson, and Michael Sustarsic. Joe Guiler, the 6'9 transfer from Colgate, played in Sunday's game but not Saturday's. And the Corning stat lines in both games were correct as well.

I think this was probably the box that WAS A PLAYER saw. It has several of the Edgewood players playing for Chicago.

http://www.uaa.rochester.edu/Basketball/08_09_statcrew_BK_files/MBK%20Html/UC-EDGEM.HTM

[y_jack_lok]

Wash U is extremely unathletic at the 5 spot. 

Would you please define "athletic" for me, or explain what you mean by it in this context. I'm not questioning the correctness of your observation above. However, I think I have seen lots of basketball players who might not be described as "athletic" but who still can accomplish a lot on the court and are better than players who appear more athletic.

You may not remember this, but I met you once when I was at a Wash U game with hopefan and I recall you saying that Wash U's team was "non-athletic". I'm not sure what season it was, but I believe it was early in the season two seasons ago when they made their first trip to the Final Four. I do not intend this as a criticism nor do I want to start an argument. I'm just curious as to how you see your definition of athletic translate into players with that quality being better basketball players than ones without it.

[Titan Q]

Wash U is extremely unathletic at the 5 spot. 

Would you please define "athletic" for me, or explain what you mean by it in this context. I'm not questioning the correctness of your observation above. However, I think I have seen lots of basketball players who might not be described as "athletic" but who still can accomplish a lot on the court and are better than players who appear more athletic.

You may not remember this, but I met you once when I was at a Wash U game with hopefan and I recall you saying that Wash U's team was "non-athletic". I'm not sure what season it was, but I believe it was early in the season two seasons ago when they made their first trip to the Final Four. I do not intend this as a criticism nor do I want to start an argument. I'm just curious as to how you see your definition of athletic translate into players with that quality being better basketball players than ones without it.

That is a good question, because I think the word "athletic" gets used in different contexts quite a bit in basketball conversations.  When I use that term as it applies to a basketball player, I am referring to some combination of:

* "Basketball coordination" (not sure how else to say that)
* Leaping ability (not just pure vertical leaping, but how a player uses his ability to jump effectively)
* Ability to move effectively on the court, relative to position played (not using the words "speed" or "quickness", because that is not what I mean)


Believe me, I am right with you when you say, "I have seen lots of basketball players who might not be described as 'athletic' but who still can accomplish a lot on the court and are better than players who appear more athletic."  I watched Dennie Bridges-coached IWU teams win CCIW titles, and a national title, with kids who played "below the rim", but were just simply great basketball players.  Sometimes I'll hear people refer to a lot of those former Bridges players as "unathletic" and will strongly disagree.  Most people use the word "athletic" to primarily refer to leaping ability, and I do not.  Again, I think athleticism also has to do with what I called "basketball coordination" (for lack of a better term) and how well a player moves on the floor.  Was Troy Ruths a great leaper?  No.  Was he "athletic"?  Absolutely.

Regarding my comment about Wash U early in 2006-07 (and yes, I remember sitting with you guys), I made that after watching the Bears look awful vs Pomona Pitzer for a half.  The Bears got beat down the floor regularly, got out-jumped for rebounds, and just generally looked "unathletic" (at least as I define it).  It wasn't until the 2nd half of that game, when Wash U started playing hard, and then the next few times I saw that Bears team play that I realized I was wrong - Ruths, Nading, Thompson & Co. certainly where athletic.  I mistook a lack of hustle for lack of athleticism.

About my comment about the center spot on this Wash U team (and to be clear, that is absolutely the only spot I think the Bears are "unathletic"), I think Wash U's two 5's (starter Zack Kelly and reserve Tom Blount) do not run the floor well, don't have a high degree of "basketball coordination", and cannot jump.  Augustana's starting posts, Justin Bertrand and Chandlor Collins, both do all of those things very well.  I think it will hurt Wash U on both ends of the floor - I see Bertrand and Collins dominating the boards and making it hard for Wash U to score in the low post.

Just my take.