MBB: University Athletic Association

[deiscanton]

Another piece of news on the Wash U Athletics Hall of Fame last night:

Wash U men's basketball star Kevin Folkl (Wash U class of 1996) was also inducted last night alongside Wash U women's basketball standout Tasha Rodgers.

I believe that Kevin Folkl is also the brother of former Stanford player and WNBA star (with the Minnesota Lynx) Kristen Folkl-- I know that they both went to high school in St. Louis, Missouri and were great players there.

[Hugenerd]

I watched the CMU-Case game on-line in its entirety tonight (it's nice to see more and more dIII teams, and UAA teams doing this, makes it easier to argue.)  CMU is very good.  Last Sunday O'Rourke took 3 shots (1-3, tonight 1-5) and Anderson took 7 (0-7 0-4 on three's as opposed to 5-9 3-5 on three's all made 3's in the first half when CMU took control.)  So, they were hardly gunning it up in either game.  Tonight they took more shots, Anderson and O'Rourke's willingness to pass is not the difference between tonight's game and last weekend's game.   They were clearly willing to pass in that game as well.

Case packed it in a zone in the first half, and the only difference between tonight and last Sunday is CMU was at home and shot the ball extremely well.  Over 50% from three for the game (and equally importantly a total of 9 as opposed to the 4 they usually make,) Anderson hit 3 3's in the first half and CMU I believe hit eight in the first half.  O'Rourke had 5 assists last Sunday and if CMU had shot the ball as well last Sunday they would have won and he probably would have approached the 11 assists he had tonight, if Case had to get out of their zone and he had been able use his dribble to draw help which he did tonight.  Case couldn't stay in the zone tonight and then CMU had their way with them for the most part.  They were able on 5 or 6 occassions to get the ball out of the net after a made Case basket and get a lay-up at the other end before Case got set.  Suffice it to say, they do a lot of things very well. 

If they shoot the ball as well as they did tonight they are an elite team.  However, I also believe tonight, based on their track record, is a statistical anomoly.  They will come back to earth and shoot around the 31% they have shot all year (especially on the road,) and it will cost them a game somewhere down the road, that's the problem with inconsistent shooting, you don't know when it will show up.  Tonight, like any game would be entirely different if Anderson, who is 29% for the year, was having a bad night shooting, like last Sunday, instead of a very good night, like tonight.  It would've been a much different game

My guess is Anderson's looks from three point range tonight were not very different from the looks last Sunday, tonight he felt good and they went in, last weekend he didn't and they didn't.  This happens.  However, CMU is very solid defensively and if they shoot well, a big if, they will be very hard to handle, because they are very solid at almost everything else. They are certainly capable of a nice tournament run.  As I have said all along, they are having a great year.

Enough of that, Brandeis and NYU are essentially done after tonight, (NYU has been done,) in terms of pool C.  By done I mean Brandeis has to win on Sunday, and of all the teams that have been disappointing this year, Brandeis certainly takes the cake.  Chicago shoots lights out tonight (17-26 to trump Brandeis's 10-20 from 3 pt. range,) and I don't know if that's Chicago's offense or Brandeis's defense but if you shoot that well you will beat almost anyone, this after putting up 12 points in the first half on Sunday, hard to explain, other than that's basketball.  What a difference a little home cooking and a few days of rest makes.  Rochester holds on for a big win, or they would also have been in big trouble.

So to sum up in terms of pool C which I really think is what everyone cares about.  CMU continues to be in great shape 3-3 should get them in.  Rochester hangs on and still probably needs 4-2, Brandeis is getting into the winout stage at this point.  Tonight's loss is really huge, while we all know that Chicago is certainly dangerous, especially at home, to the rest of the world it is just a loss to a 3-16 team.  I really think at this point even a loss to Wash and winning the last 5 might not be enough for Brandeis.

Finally all 4 home teams played much much better tonight than they did last Sunday, (except maybe Rochester who just played bettet,) against the very same opposition.  My only involvement in the league is that I used to watch my neighbor's kid with him who played for a UAA school. I used to go to the games with him, and he used to tell me all the time how hard the road Sunday games are.  Having watched the league for a long time I agree with that.  I think all four home teams will win Sunday and it will be just like last Sunday. 

I agree with you Sunday picks, the biggest question mark of the four games is NYU at Chicago.

In terms of Pool C, I still think you are overly optimistic.  Brandeis was not even in the top 10 in NE before their loss to Chicago last night.  They will likely lose tomorrow, but even if they beat WashU and win out, they still have 7 in-region losses so they have almost 0 chance (last year only one 7 loss team got a Pool C, Wheaton (IL)).  Same goes for Rochester, they already have 5 losses, all of them in-region, so if they go 4-2, they will also be at 7 losses with almost no chance at a Pool C. The only advantage that Rochester has over Brandeis is that they are in a weaker region so they will be on the table for Pool C consideration earlier than Brandeis (if they continue to be highly ranked in their region: the selection system works by considering the top team still available for Pool C in each region (8 teams considered at a time, one from each region), selecting the most deserving team, replacing that team with the next ranked team in the region, and repeating until all the spots are filled).  CMU is in a better situation, no doubt, but if they go 3-3, that will also give them 7 losses on the season, but only 6 in region.  It is feasable for them to get in at 18-7 overall, with 6 losses in region, but they have a really tough road to get even to that record.  I think that if they want to be safe they need to go 4-2 in their last 6.  Given they have a pretty good shot at beating Emory and NYU at home, that means they need to win 2 out of the following 4 games: Brandeis (H), WashU (A), Chicago (A), and Rochester (A).  Although they have a really good chance at winning all these games, except for the WashU game, it is not to far of a stretch to see hwo they could lose a few of them also.

[jagluski]

Another piece of news on the Wash U Athletics Hall of Fame last night:

Wash U men's basketball star Kevin Folkl (Wash U class of 1996) was also inducted last night alongside Wash U women's basketball standout Tasha Rodgers.

I believe that Kevin Folkl is also the brother of former Stanford player and WNBA star (with the Minnesota Lynx) Kristen Folkl-- I know that they both went to high school in St. Louis, Missouri and were great players there.

This is correct

[ronk]

[. The only advantage that Rochester has over Brandeis is that they are in a weaker region so they will be on the table for Pool C consideration earlier than Brandeis (if they continue to be highly ranked in their region: the selection system works by considering the top team still available for Pool C in each region (8 teams considered at a time, one from each region), selecting the most deserving team, replacing that team with the next ranked team in the region, and repeating until all the spots are filled). 

   This wouldn't seem to make a difference if, as each team is selected, that their replacement next-in-the region team is fully considered with the remaining seven before the next selection is made. Is that the case?

[Gregory Sager]

The Chicago team that has been in hiding all season long really came out in force last night. The offense was humming -- the Maroons showed great patience, working for the shot that they really wanted rather than settling, and using skip passes to find the open man on the perimeter. Everyone's buzzing about the sparkling shooting percentage from downtown that the Maroons logged, but the shooter who impressed me the most was freshman Michael Sustarsic. He scored 19 points on only seven shots from the field, and that's just amazing efficiency. Adam Machones also deserves a shout-out for notching 11 assists without a single turnover.

I'm not sure what to think of the Brandeis team I saw last night. They appear to be talented and deep but inconsistent. Steve DeLuca was pretty quiet, what with foul trouble and strong interior D by the Maroons more or less shutting him down. Kevin Olson is a serious weapon. I like the quick guards that Brandeis has (Roberson, Hughes, and Small), but for all their quickness they had a lot of trouble closing out on shooters at the defensive end.

It was very entertaining to watch that shooting exhibition. Last night was a solid bright spot in an otherwise dreary season for the Maroons.

[Hugenerd]

[. The only advantage that Rochester has over Brandeis is that they are in a weaker region so they will be on the table for Pool C consideration earlier than Brandeis (if they continue to be highly ranked in their region: the selection system works by considering the top team still available for Pool C in each region (8 teams considered at a time, one from each region), selecting the most deserving team, replacing that team with the next ranked team in the region, and repeating until all the spots are filled). 

   This wouldn't seem to make a difference if, as each team is selected, that their replacement next-in-the region team is fully considered with the remaining seven before the next selection is made. Is that the case?

In theory, it shouldnt matter.  My point was that if you dont even get up to one of those 8, you dont have any chance, wheareas if you are on the table for a while, you have a better chance.  If Brandeis is ranked 15th in NE, they may never even be considered by the committee.  Whereas, a Rochester team with the same record may be ranked 5th in their region and be up for consideration with a bunch of Pool C spots still available, and when you are on the table for a while, you never know what can happen.

[Marty Peretz]

Wash.U cruises to an 82-57 win over Brandeis but there is a huge asterix that needs to be in the unofficial box score.

Roberson, Hollins, and Small were all benched, apparently for a violation of team rules. Wash.U. didn't even play that well, despite winning by 25. I think if Deis has those guys, Wash.U. may have lost. Hard to say, really, since the action was so much less physical and generally more subdued without the intensity that those three guys bring. Very unfortunate for the Judges, as the door on their post season chances has officially been closed.

As a Wash.U. fan, I wanted the Bears to face a more serious test this weekend, particularly with the perennial doormats being next weekend's opponents. No knock on Case or Emory, but those aren't exactly good tune-ups (at least not in paper..we all know anything can happen in this league) for Carnegie and Rochester the following weekend and the NCAA's two weeks after that.

[BUBeaverFan]

It would have been great for Brandeis to be at full strength.  I only saw the game on the internet and it did seem sort of blah.  Coach Edwards played his whole bench and then some.  Those reserve minutes even against a depleted Brandeis squad will be valuable as the season comes to and end and tourney time approaches. Go Bears!  I think Mike C. from Rochester is a lock for player of the week in the UAA, 36 and 18 in two wins.

[David Collinge]

Wash.U cruises to an 82-57 win over Brandeis but there is a huge asterix that needs to be in the unofficial box score.

[deiscanton]

I wonder if the benching of most of the Brandeis top players today was actually for a violation of team rules, or if it was the fact that Brandeis allowed Chicago to rain 17 3's on them on Friday and allowed Chicago to be the team to knock Brandeis out of NCAA consideration rather than Wash U or Rochester.   For whatever reasons, I don't blame coach Meehan for making the decisions that he made today, and I think any coach coaching in this situation would have done the exact same thing.    It is a little disappointing, however, that I was not able to see a good rematch of last Friday's game in Waltham, but Wash U has a better team than the Bears had last year, and Brandeis does not have a better team than the Judges had last year. 

Keep in mind that the Brandeis men's basketball team could only afford to send 12 players on this weekend's trip due to financial considerations.  Normally, a UAA team is allowed to send up to 15 players on the travel squad.

Best of luck to the Wash U Bears in the NCAA tournament.

[pabegg]

[. The only advantage that Rochester has over Brandeis is that they are in a weaker region so they will be on the table for Pool C consideration earlier than Brandeis (if they continue to be highly ranked in their region: the selection system works by considering the top team still available for Pool C in each region (8 teams considered at a time, one from each region), selecting the most deserving team, replacing that team with the next ranked team in the region, and repeating until all the spots are filled). 

   This wouldn't seem to make a difference if, as each team is selected, that their replacement next-in-the region team is fully considered with the remaining seven before the next selection is made. Is that the case?

In theory, it shouldnt matter.  My point was that if you dont even get up to one of those 8, you dont have any chance, wheareas if you are on the table for a while, you have a better chance.  If Brandeis is ranked 15th in NE, they may never even be considered by the committee.  Whereas, a Rochester team with the same record may be ranked 5th in their region and be up for consideration with a bunch of Pool C spots still available, and when you are on the table for a while, you never know what can happen.

It would appear that the opposite is true. My sense of the process is that at any given point, there's a one through eight ranking of the eight regional representatives. Then they agree to give the #1 a Pool C bid. Then they go back to the regional list and determine who comes off the top of that list as the region's new representative. Then they take that team and fit it into the list with the seven remaining regional representatives. That team could be anywhere from the #1 to the #8.

So it's not out of the question that a team could start as the 8th ranked regional representative, and never move up, as long as the new teams on the final list compare out ahead of them.

This has proved to be a very objective process in its modern incarnation. Normally, we hit the final Pool C bid with about 4 or 5 teams in contention; anyone below those 4 or 5 can point to exactly where they came up short.

[Hugenerd]

[. The only advantage that Rochester has over Brandeis is that they are in a weaker region so they will be on the table for Pool C consideration earlier than Brandeis (if they continue to be highly ranked in their region: the selection system works by considering the top team still available for Pool C in each region (8 teams considered at a time, one from each region), selecting the most deserving team, replacing that team with the next ranked team in the region, and repeating until all the spots are filled). 

   This wouldn't seem to make a difference if, as each team is selected, that their replacement next-in-the region team is fully considered with the remaining seven before the next selection is made. Is that the case?

In theory, it shouldnt matter.  My point was that if you dont even get up to one of those 8, you dont have any chance, wheareas if you are on the table for a while, you have a better chance.  If Brandeis is ranked 15th in NE, they may never even be considered by the committee.  Whereas, a Rochester team with the same record may be ranked 5th in their region and be up for consideration with a bunch of Pool C spots still available, and when you are on the table for a while, you never know what can happen.

It would appear that the opposite is true. My sense of the process is that at any given point, there's a one through eight ranking of the eight regional representatives. Then they agree to give the #1 a Pool C bid. Then they go back to the regional list and determine who comes off the top of that list as the region's new representative. Then they take that team and fit it into the list with the seven remaining regional representatives. That team could be anywhere from the #1 to the #8.

So it's not out of the question that a team could start as the 8th ranked regional representative, and never move up, as long as the new teams on the final list compare out ahead of them.

This has proved to be a very objective process in its modern incarnation. Normally, we hit the final Pool C bid with about 4 or 5 teams in contention; anyone below those 4 or 5 can point to exactly where they came up short.

I dont diagree.  It doesnt matter anyway. Brandeis, NYU and all of the other bottom 5 in the UAA are all playing for the ECACs at this point (if they are in an eligible region and would like to play in it, that is).  CMU would be in pretty good shape finishing 3-2 in the final 5 and Rochester needs to do at least that to have a chance and go 4-1 to be pretty safe.

[Hugenerd]

I wonder if the benching of most of the Brandeis top players today was actually for a violation of team rules, or if it was the fact that Brandeis allowed Chicago to rain 17 3's on them on Friday and allowed Chicago to be the team to knock Brandeis out of NCAA consideration rather than Wash U or Rochester.   For whatever reasons, I don't blame coach Meehan for making the decisions that he made today, and I think any coach coaching in this situation would have done the exact same thing.    It is a little disappointing, however, that I was not able to see a good rematch of last Friday's game in Waltham, but Wash U has a better team than the Bears had last year, and Brandeis does not have a better team than the Judges had last year. 

Keep in mind that the Brandeis men's basketball team could only afford to send 12 players on this weekend's trip due to financial considerations.  Normally, a UAA team is allowed to send up to 15 players on the travel squad.

Best of luck to the Wash U Bears in the NCAA tournament.

My guess is violation of team rules.  Friday night (after the game) in Chicago I am sure had something to do with it.  My guess is that they were either late for room check (if they had it), missed their wake up call, or were late for the bus to the airport (with three players being punished, it is more likely they all were punished for the same thing and were together when it happened, although obviously there are other possibilities).  When you are on the road in a big city like Chicago, Friday night after the game is a popular time to go out.

[deiscanton]

Taking another look at the box score from the Brandeis/Wash U game:

Besides Kenny Small, Terrell Hollins, and Christian Yemga being the obvious players who had to sit out today, Napoleon Lherrisson didn't get any minutes today either.  I'm sure that Lherrisson would have gotten some minutes today but he may have been benched as well. 

With Weldon and Shannon getting limited minutes, Brandeis essentially had to play Wash U today with just 6 effective players.  You cannot win a UAA game with just 6 players, never mind a game with Wash U as your opponent.

Still, under the circumstances, I think Brandeis did fine today with what they had.

[WAS A PLAYER]

Wow, a whole week goes by and nothing to talk about? I see some interesting and important games this weekend. Wash U can secure at least a co-championship with two wins, I believe. Carnegie and Rochester could a long way in putting themselves in  position for the post season. I was wondering why Matt Corning didn't play last Sunday and if he will play this weekend? Is everyone healthy and will suspended players be back?  What are eveyones thoughts and observations?

WAP