MBB: University Athletic Association

[deiscanton]

1-on-1 interview with WashU men’s basketball senior guard Jake Knupp. The St. Paul, Minn.-native is averaging 18.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 4.0 assists per game for the Bears, who are 5-1 and ranked No. 11 in NCAA Division III. Knupp graduated in 3.5 years from WashU and will be attending Medical School.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCtJys8MH-E

I assume that NCAA by-laws still allow Jake Knupp to compete in basketball until the end of the season even though he has already completed the degree requirements of the baccalaureate program for Wash U, correct?

Scenario-- Jake Knupp has already gone through the December recognition ceremony and his bachelor's degree will be conferred in January by the Wash U board of trustees.  He will not be enrolled as a grad student while competing.

I did some research on the NCAA by-laws, and I believe that Jake Knupp can still compete for the Wash U basketball team until the end of the season because the season started in Mr Knupp's final term of baccalaureate study. I do not have the exact citation on hand, however.

Update-- The by-law is in the NCAA DIII Manual, and it is By-law 14.1.8.1.6.7-- Eligibility After Completion of Degree Requirements.  Jake Knupp is covered under section b of that by-law-- that section allows students who complete the degree requirements in less than 4 consecutive years from date of initial enrollment to compete in a sport until the end of the season, if that season began during the student's final term of satisfying the degree requirements.

[WUPHF]

So... he's not playing 2nd semester?

That would be tough, but I definitely cannot blame him for graduating early.

If that were the case, the semester ends two days after the road game against Illinois Wesleyan.

I'll have to take back what I said about defensive player of the year, though I stand by the prediction.

[deiscanton]

So... he's not playing 2nd semester?

NCAA by-laws still allow Jake Knupp to compete for Wash U in basketball until the end of the season.  He would not be eligible to compete for Wash U in the spring sports, however.  I cited the by-law in another post explaining this situation.

[Mr. Mo]

While I cannot cite the bylaw provision, I believe I read in the NCAA manual that graduate students could compete in Div 3 athletics as long as they were competing at the school where they received their degree.

[WUPHF]

This appears to be the citation from Page 90 of the NCAA manual:

14.1.8.1.6.7 
Eligibility  After  Completion  of  Degree  Requirements.
A  student-athlete who was eligible during the term in which degree work was completed may continue to practice and compete (through the conclusion of the season) after the final day of that term, only if:
(a) A postseason event (e.g., NCAA championship, NAIA championship, NCCAA championship) in  the  student-athlete's  sport  begins  within  60  days  after  the  end  of  the  term  in  which  the  student-athlete completes degree requirements;
(b) The  student-athlete  completed  his  or  her  degree  requirements  in  fewer  than  four  consecutive years from his or her initial collegiate enrollment and has been charged with a season of participation for that year prior to the completion of degree requirements; or (Revised: 5/18/17)
(c) The student-athlete is continuing enrollment pursuant to Bylaw 14.1.9 (see Bylaw 14.1.8.1.6.6).


I would assume that the full-time enrollment requirement still applies.  That is covered in the following section on Page 90, but I do not see anything there in that section.  It is hard to imagine that the NCAA would let a Division III athlete do nothing more than play basketball, but again, I know knowledge here.

14.1.8.1.7   
Waivers   of   the   Full-Time   Enrollment   Requirement   for   Practice   or   Competition.
Waivers may be granted for the following: (Adopted: 10/20/09)

[Riley056]

How many total semesters has he been enrolled?

[WUPHF]

7 according to the earlier post.

[Riley056]

You get 10 semesters to play 4 total seasons.

As long as he enrolls in spring semester in hours that consider him a full time student, good to go.

Sorry if previously mentioned.

[WUPHF]

You get 10 semesters to play 4 total seasons.  As long as he enrolls in spring semester in hours that consider him a full time student, good to go.  Sorry if previously mentioned.

Thanks! The question I was pondering was whether or not there was an exception to the full-time study rule. 

I am not sure if a student would want to pay the full freight just to play basketball, though I guess if he were to enroll in the pre-health post-baccalaureate program or something similar, the full time tuition would be in the $7,000-10,000 range for the semester.

[Mr. Ypsi]

This appears to be the citation from Page 90 of the NCAA manual:

14.1.8.1.6.7 
Eligibility  After  Completion  of  Degree  Requirements.
A  student-athlete who was eligible during the term in which degree work was completed may continue to practice and compete (through the conclusion of the season) after the final day of that term, only if:
(a) A postseason event (e.g., NCAA championship, NAIA championship, NCCAA championship) in  the  student-athlete's  sport  begins  within  60  days  after  the  end  of  the  term  in  which  the  student-athlete completes degree requirements;
(b) The  student-athlete  completed  his  or  her  degree  requirements  in  fewer  than  four  consecutive years from his or her initial collegiate enrollment and has been charged with a season of participation for that year prior to the completion of degree requirements; or (Revised: 5/18/17)
(c) The student-athlete is continuing enrollment pursuant to Bylaw 14.1.9 (see Bylaw 14.1.8.1.6.6).


I would assume that the full-time enrollment requirement still applies.  That is covered in the following section on Page 90, but I do not see anything there in that section.  It is hard to imagine that the NCAA would let a Division III athlete do nothing more than play basketball, but again, I know knowledge here.

14.1.8.1.7   
Waivers   of   the   Full-Time   Enrollment   Requirement   for   Practice   or   Competition.
Waivers may be granted for the following: (Adopted: 10/20/09)

(a) above would seem to say he would be ineligible for the tourney!  Where's Pat or d-mac?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

While I cannot cite the bylaw provision, I believe I read in the NCAA manual that graduate students could compete in Div 3 athletics as long as they were competing at the school where they received their degree.

Yes. True at all schools in the NCAA. As long as you have eligibility left, you can be a graduate student and still play. Happens often, actually.

There have been efforts to allow these students to also transfer and play at another school. The first effort was shot down at the last convention. I believe there is another on the table for this convention. Personally, I support the effort, but too many people have ideas that it would create an arms race for some schools - even recruiting players (which is actually not allowed). I think it is a very small chance and current rules only hurt student-athletes who want to finish playing, but their current institution doesn't have the post-graduate degree they are looking for... but I digress.

You get 10 semesters to play 4 total seasons.

As long as he enrolls in spring semester in hours that consider him a full time student, good to go.

Sorry if previously mentioned.

This may be previously mentioned as well, but they actually don't even have to be a full-time student per se. This is true for the academic side as well, but as long as a student is taking credits in their final semester, they don't have to hit the usual minimum for what classifies as a "full-time" student. If a student doesn't need that many credits to graduate, they aren't forced to take more than a few.

I haven't followed all of the details here, but as long as the SA is taking classes and by rule is classified a full-time student, he is eligible to compete in the regular season and the post-season.

It actually happens often in the second semester. I remember a friend who only had to take four credits in his final semester and still played basketball. He had done his work prior which certainly earned him that chance. Yeah, it is a bit light for that last semester, but again, he had earned it with his prior 3 1/2 semesters to be sure.

There are other situations that are pretty cool, in my opinion, like this. When I played collegiate soccer, my friend and the starting goalie for our team (I was honored to be his backup) was in a 3-2 program between Goucher and Hopkins. Three years at Goucher taking classes with occasional classes at Hopkins especially in that third year. Then he took classes at Hopkins the other two years. He ended up graduating with a BA from Goucher and an Engineering degree from Hopkins in five years. The best part was his fourth year, he still played for Goucher men's soccer even though he wasn't taking classes at Goucher. It was allowed because he was a full-time student in the 3-2 program. He actually had a choice if you wanted to play for Goucher or Hopkins and chose to stay with our squad.

That and many other reasons is why I appreciate Division III as much as I do.

[WUPHF]

Question. I understand the less than full time clause when a student needs less than a full time load to graduate, but what about a student who has graduated?  Anything less than full-time would be arbitrary.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Question. I understand the less than full time clause when a student needs less than a full time load to graduate, but what about a student who has graduated?  Anything less than full-time would be arbitrary.

If he has officially graduated, then they have to be enrolled in a graduate program and be full-time in that program. Different situation.

Also, "graduated" means done taking classes and the degree has been officially given. My friend was done with all his requirements, but took a few more elective classes. He didn't get his degree until May.

[WUPHF]

It seems to be the situation here...

Washington University does not offer a part time rate in the eighth semester, so no hanging around. But there are other options.

The fans may have to wait and see what the starting line-up for the Augustana game looks like.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

It seems to be the situation here...

Washington University does not offer a part time rate in the eighth semester, so no hanging around. But there are other options.

The fans may have to wait and see what the starting line-up for the Augustana game looks like.

Most students I know do not pay the part-time rate even if they are taking less classes... but honestly, that's where I get lost a bit in the whole thing.