MBB: University Athletic Association

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

That does not actually provide the answer as to why Johns Hopkins left.

Didn't want to have a split conference schedule - double-round-robin in the Centennial and one round in the UAA at worst for basketball.

They left because they didn't want to take their student-athletes around the country and the expenses it involved on top of taking them out of classes. There was a larger burden due to the dual-conference schedule in their sports.

It was a different time when they withdrew - 1990s? - but despite what the UAA may hope (and I always hear the idea of JHU coming back in from birdies in the UAA), JHU doesn't have any reason to return to the UAA.

[WUPHF]

Thanks for the answer though there is certainly more to the story.

Why did Johns Hopkins join the league as a founding member in 1986 after becoming a founding member of the Centennial League five seasons prior?

Why did they stick around so long?

Did Lacrosse play a role?

In regards to basketball, they were not, for the most part, playing the UAA teams prior to the formation of the league though they did play Washington University in the season prior so again, why join?

Hopkins has a president that had served from 1972-1990 though I cannot find who the president was in 2001 when they left, but it is not a matter of a change in leadership at either end.

As for Hopkins joining the league again, I think it is an interesting to think about a 10-team league with Johns Hopkins becoming a travel partner with Rochester and Brandeis partnering with MIT and NYU traveling with Emory. 

Coaches will surely play along if you suggest it, but it is hard to imagine those involved in basketball would support it as they are then left with a New Years weekend start to conference play and a bye weekend or some other complicated schedule.

Even if it was only Hopkins and nine teams, it does not make sense.

[hopefan]

As for Hopkins joining the league again, I think it is an interesting to think about a 10-team league with Johns Hopkins becoming a travel partner with Rochester and Brandeis partnering with MIT and NYU traveling with Emory. 

MIT  ?      Further WUPIFFFF conjecture, or did I miss something major???

[WUPHF]

MIT and Hopkins are not joining the UAA.

I am just thinking out loud...

And, thinking through why I think it is unlikely that any coaches or athletic directors in the UAA wish for Hopkins to return.

[hopefan]

MIT and Hopkins are not joining the UAA.

I am just thinking out loud...

And, thinking through why I think it is unlikely that any coaches or athletic directors in the UAA wish for Hopkins to return.

In all honesty, at least for Basketball, they would both be a great fit.....I've never thought that MIT belonged in the NEWMAC... much more a NESCAC or UAA team....

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks for the answer though there is certainly more to the story.

Why did Johns Hopkins join the league as a founding member in 1986 after becoming a founding member of the Centennial League five seasons prior?

Why did they stick around so long?

Did Lacrosse play a role?

In regards to basketball, they were not, for the most part, playing the UAA teams prior to the formation of the league though they did play Washington University in the season prior so again, why join?

Hopkins has a president that had served from 1972-1990 though I cannot find who the president was in 2001 when they left, but it is not a matter of a change in leadership at either end.

As for Hopkins joining the league again, I think it is an interesting to think about a 10-team league with Johns Hopkins becoming a travel partner with Rochester and Brandeis partnering with MIT and NYU traveling with Emory. 

Coaches will surely play along if you suggest it, but it is hard to imagine those involved in basketball would support it as they are then left with a New Years weekend start to conference play and a bye weekend or some other complicated schedule.

Even if it was only Hopkins and nine teams, it does not make sense.

I honestly can't answer many of these simply because I wasn't around when these decisions were made and I was only worrying about playing against their soccer team and announcing games correctly in the mid-90s.

I will say this ... lacrosse didn't play a role. Lacrosse has been a D1 program from the onset for the men (women were added to D1 as part of the grandfather clause to allow them to keep MLAX in D1). Hopkins literally has to different mentalities: lacrosse and D3. I know I have found with some other D3/D1 splits, that isn't necessarily the case - but that is a completely different convo.

I think back in the 1980s and 90s, there wasn't much of a way to get your name out nationally as there is in this day in age. I suspect a big reason for joining the UAA was to put the Hopkins name in front of recruits and possible students (non-athletes even) in other markets was to take the teams to different markets. That's just an idea I have off the top of my head.

As for your other comment about not imagining people being for the idea of Hopkins joining ... I assure you from those I've talked to that isn't the case. The idea of being able to "be" in the Baltimore/DC market with teams ... allowing coaches to better recruit from those markets ... is a major draw. The UAA schools do wish they could get back into those markets a little easier (visiting multiple times a year with teams is very helpful; thus my theory on why, maybe, Hopkins joined in the first place).

And MIT has a lot of budgetary issues I don't think people appreciate. As one who has tried to get MIT programs to different events, I am fully aware of how tight budgets are. MIT teams travel in non-conference locations thanks mainly to alums who either donate to programs so they can pay for transportation and hotel stays or find a way to get those options taken care of for the programs. MIT has traveled to Baltimore via plane for NCAA tournament games, but only because alums have stepped up and helped out. If MIT were to add travel to Chicago, St. Louis, Atlanta, etc. for nearly EVERY team in EVERY sport nearly EVERY year ... that is a budgetary increase I don't think they would ever be able to accomplish. So, even if MIT was an option (which as I've said before, the UAA doesn't need since they have Brandeis in the Boston "market"), I am just not convinced MIT would even consider it unless there was a massive change in the athletic budget.

[Gregory Sager]

I have an abiding interest in MIT's athletics budget, because of the peculiarity of the school's situation. MIT sponsors 30 sports, including such exotic and presumably expensive sports as men's and women's sailing, and that's definitely near the high end of D3 in terms of number of sponsored sports. An athletic department with thirty varsity teams requires a lot of money just to cover travel costs. On the other hand, when the MIT men's volleyball team came to Chicago last spring for a tourney at North Park, the head coach of the Engineers told people on the NPU staff that he doesn't even bother recruiting. And why should he? His players come to him. MIT is the crème de la crème of STEM schools, so I can see how an upside-down player-acquisition scenario could work for them in a men's sport. It's not as though not recruiting has turned out to be a bad strategy; over the past decade and a half, the Engineers have posted a 355-136 (.723) record in men's volleyball. And last year's Engineers squad finished 23-9 and was very good by the standards of most D3 programs, let alone for a bunch of guys who sought out their school rather than the other way around.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Coincidently, I was told the same thing from a coach at Hopkins about recruiting. I am not sure that is always the best, but it also hasn't hurt.

Per MIT, I have had a few conversations with coaches there who talk about potential players actually on campus ... but with no interest in playing. And yes, all campuses have potential players on them, but I am talking to the degree of starters or significant contributors - program changing players. MIT - and many schools like them - have plenty of talented students on campus in a variety of areas who choose not to play athletics.

We love the fact student-athletes in DIII are truly students and understand after this they are going to be doing something else with their lives. I find it fascinating there also tends to be very talented athletes on some campuses who decide they just aren't interested in still taking to the court. Talk about making tough decisions.

[WUPHF]

________________

EDIT: I read my prior post again and I made it sound as if the highly selective schools have it easy on the recruiting trail.  I do not think that is the case.  If it was easy, NYU would still be a basketball powerhouse.  I am deleting my prior post rather than fixing, but maybe I'll post on the topic again with more nuance.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I thought NYU's biggest hurdle was a different scholarship structure overall than most similar schools?  I forget the specifics, but they don't offer any merit aid or very little - isn't that right?

[Caz Bombers]

the student-athlete life at NYU is pretty unique and challenging amongst any in this country, let alone at D3. To have no on-campus facilities at all in any sport must put a huge strain on one's time.

They frequently don't win at the same levels as the rest of the UAA, but every now and then they pull a real shocker, like winning the NCAA championship in women's golf this past spring.

[WUPHF]

I think most of the coaches at the elite research institutions have to contend with issues related to cost except when they find a recruit with financial need.

I may be wrong, but I would be surprised if NYU is exceptional in this regard.

For basketball, the facilities issue is a bit of a blip as they had facilities and will have facilities eventually.

I think in terms of basketball, there are issues of fit that a UChicago or Rochester does not have to contend with, but I would still say that NYU should get a lot of interest from student-athletes.

Interestingly, NYU played basketball off-campus during there hey day.  Madison Square Garden is about the same distance away as Hunter College.

[WUPHF]

And, speaking of NYU and recruiting, head coach Dagan Nelson was interviewed on a podcast this week.

He did talk about the recruiting advantages he has at NYU and even suggested that he gets 60-70 e-mails a day from prospects and could field 6 or 7 teams.

This is a good interview and worth the listen if you have any interest.

http://refereerant.com/2019/09/episode-88-the-rant-dagan-nelson/

[WUPHF]

Chicago has posted an updated roster: https://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/mbkb/2019-20/roster

The Maroons add three freshmen to a roster of ten upperclassman.

Chicago returns Baum who is arguably the best point guard in the UAA along with Laravie and Schmitz who are among the best all-around players in the league and then...

[WUPHF]

Emory also has an updated roster: https://www.emoryathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/roster

The Eagles add four freshmen after adding only one freshman last season.