MBB: University Athletic Association

[Ethelred the Unready]

I am changing the topic a bit, mainly because I have not posted in a while and something started to pop into my head. Although the overall record is simply not as good as last year for Brandeis, a win this weekend I believe gives them the same conference record as last season. I would argue that this year's team though less consistent than last year's is perhaps a better team when playing to its potential. The losses to Rochester at Home and Chicago on the road just should not have happened. 12-2 in conference is more or less what people expected for this year's squad and would have put them right in the thick of the conference battle with wash u. Now flip around the strange loss to lasell and the even more unforgivable loss to FSC and you have a 4 loss team.

I know you can not just take away losses, but it seems as of late the judges have figured it out. If they are some how lucky enough to squeek into the tournament, I feel they would make a run as deep or deeper than last year.

Yeah and oddly enough, the UR losses to Brandeis and NYU at home shouldn't have happened.  Funny how that works.

In all seriousness, the Brandeis team I saw at UR looked pretty strong

[ILive4This]

I am changing the topic a bit, mainly because I have not posted in a while and something started to pop into my head. Although the overall record is simply not as good as last year for Brandeis, a win this weekend I believe gives them the same conference record as last season. I would argue that this year's team though less consistent than last year's is perhaps a better team when playing to its potential. The losses to Rochester at Home and Chicago on the road just should not have happened. 12-2 in conference is more or less what people expected for this year's squad and would have put them right in the thick of the conference battle with wash u. Now flip around the strange loss to lasell and the even more unforgivable loss to FSC and you have a 4 loss team.

I know you can not just take away losses, but it seems as of late the judges have figured it out. If they are some how lucky enough to squeek into the tournament, I feel they would make a run as deep or deeper than last year.

As you pointed out, they are not as consistent, and I think the hypothetical run you speak of would depend on which team showed up any given night.  With that said, I think they are a better team than Amherst and should be ranked ahead of them in the region.  Whether they can be last year's Wheaton and sneak into the tourney is yet to be seen. The losses to FSC and Lasell will definitely hurt though.  Without those two I think they are ranked top 5 or 6 in NE and with their OWP numbers they would have a much firmer hold on a C right now.

I think a main reason for their inconsistency is due to the inconsistency of their go-to-guy, Steve DeLuca.  In my observation, when DeLuca has played well against good teams, Brandeis usually wins.  When he struggles, the team tends to also.  In my opinion, Joe Coppens was a more consistent player last year which had a lot to do with them playing more consistently throughout the season.

I actually think it has more to do with playing style. Starting Kenny smalls puts a faster paced, shooting heavy offense on the floor. I do not know what team rule yemga broke, and he is a good ball player and an all around nice guy, but the team that made the trip to UR without him was a completely different team and since then they have been shooting the ball hot and putting up big points and big wins.

And to the other poster...a 30 point blowout at the palestra i think overshadows a small defeat in waltham.

[Ethelred the Unready]

I am changing the topic a bit, mainly because I have not posted in a while and something started to pop into my head. Although the overall record is simply not as good as last year for Brandeis, a win this weekend I believe gives them the same conference record as last season. I would argue that this year's team though less consistent than last year's is perhaps a better team when playing to its potential. The losses to Rochester at Home and Chicago on the road just should not have happened. 12-2 in conference is more or less what people expected for this year's squad and would have put them right in the thick of the conference battle with wash u. Now flip around the strange loss to lasell and the even more unforgivable loss to FSC and you have a 4 loss team.

I know you can not just take away losses, but it seems as of late the judges have figured it out. If they are some how lucky enough to squeek into the tournament, I feel they would make a run as deep or deeper than last year.

As you pointed out, they are not as consistent, and I think the hypothetical run you speak of would depend on which team showed up any given night.  With that said, I think they are a better team than Amherst and should be ranked ahead of them in the region.  Whether they can be last year's Wheaton and sneak into the tourney is yet to be seen. The losses to FSC and Lasell will definitely hurt though.  Without those two I think they are ranked top 5 or 6 in NE and with their OWP numbers they would have a much firmer hold on a C right now.

I think a main reason for their inconsistency is due to the inconsistency of their go-to-guy, Steve DeLuca.  In my observation, when DeLuca has played well against good teams, Brandeis usually wins.  When he struggles, the team tends to also.  In my opinion, Joe Coppens was a more consistent player last year which had a lot to do with them playing more consistently throughout the season.

I actually think it has more to do with playing style. Starting Kenny smalls puts a faster paced, shooting heavy offense on the floor. I do not know what team rule yemga broke, and he is a good ball player and an all around nice guy, but the team that made the trip to UR without him was a completely different team and since then they have been shooting the ball hot and putting up big points and big wins.

And to the other poster...a 30 point blowout at the palestra i think overshadows a small defeat in waltham.

Actually I was sort of agreeing, and the game at Waltham was 8-13 points until the last minute or so.  And a one point win at WashU trumps a 25 point loss.  I think.  All I was saying is that in the UAA you better hold home service, cause road wins are tough.  Especially Friday night games when the students are ready to cut loose.  Sunday games, at least in ROchester, are more of a family affair and a little more sedate.  At least this year.

[Hugenerd]

I actually think it has more to do with playing style. Starting Kenny smalls puts a faster paced, shooting heavy offense on the floor. I do not know what team rule yemga broke, and he is a good ball player and an all around nice guy, but the team that made the trip to UR without him was a completely different team and since then they have been shooting the ball hot and putting up big points and big wins.

I dont understand your comment completely.  Specifically having to do with putting up big points and big wins since playing at Rochester.  They have put up big points in one game (108 vs. Case) and have only played two games since playing at Rochester (Emory and Case, in the Emory game they scored 65 points). Those two wins arent that big either.

The weekend of the Rochester game they did have two nice wins, at CMU and Rochester, that they really needed to have, but that was after a horrible weekend where they lost to Chicago, (then something happened where 1/3 their team was suspended), and then were blown out by WashU.

I think, in general, whether it is Kenny Small or Roberson (Small is obviously the better scorer), they play better when they are a bit more up tempo because it tends to free up open shots for their shooters (other teams cant set up their half court D).  Olsen is lights out from 3, but he isnt a guy who is going to make a move with the ball and pull up for 3, he usually needs to be set up.  So anything that causes his, or other, defenders to have to rotate and help is a plus for their offense. 

As for Brandeis, in general, I think they are a very good team.  Whether they are deserving of a Pool C bid or not remains to be seen, depending on Pool A upsets and other things. With that said, I definitely thought that they should be ranked ahead of Amherst in the NE and was very glad to see that the committee had looked at the quality of Brandeis' schedule, wins, and losses when making their decision on the rankings this week and not just on the fact that they have 8 losses.

[Marty Peretz]

Anyone think Meehan is regretting that decision to bench his studs for the Wash.U. game? If the infractions were as insignificant as some have conjectured, you'd have to think that somewhere deep down he'd question his decision if things didn't go according to plan on selection day. That issue aside, I was hoping some of our more numerically-inclined/aware of NCAA logistics could answer a few things for me.

-Does the committee take into account margin of defeat? If so, Deis' loss to Wash.U. could also help?
-Does the committee take into account suspensions, injuries, and other external factors? Again, if they did, Deis could benefit perhaps a TINY bit since the blow-out on the road to WU would carry a slight asterix.

Anyone headed to the NYU game tomorrow? I think I may check it out. Obviously I'd love to be in the STL but living in NYC, this one will have to suffice. Pissed I didn't get back to the Lou this year, but perhaps they'll host and I'll fly out. Still, Salem is probably the closest they'll get to me, so I'm already keeping the fingers crossed on that front...

[Mr. Ypsi]

Anyone think Meehan is regretting that decision to bench his studs for the Wash.U. game? If the infractions were as insignificant as some have conjectured, you'd have to think that somewhere deep down he'd question his decision if things didn't go according to plan on selection day. That issue aside, I was hoping some of our more numerically-inclined/aware of NCAA logistics could answer a few things for me.

-Does the committee take into account margin of defeat? If so, Deis' loss to Wash.U. could also help?
-Does the committee take into account suspensions, injuries, and other external factors? Again, if they did, Deis could benefit perhaps a TINY bit since the blow-out on the road to WU would carry a slight asterix.

Anyone headed to the NYU game tomorrow? I think I may check it out. Obviously I'd love to be in the STL but living in NYC, this one will have to suffice. Pissed I didn't get back to the Lou this year, but perhaps they'll host and I'll fly out. Still, Salem is probably the closest they'll get to me, so I'm already keeping the fingers crossed on that front...

The 'official' answer to both questions would be 'no'.  Neither of these is a criterion, not even in the 'secondary criteria' list.

To the limited extent that subjectivity enters the decision-making process, I would have to assume that such factors could not be completely ruled out.

[Hugenerd]

Anyone think Meehan is regretting that decision to bench his studs for the Wash.U. game? If the infractions were as insignificant as some have conjectured, you'd have to think that somewhere deep down he'd question his decision if things didn't go according to plan on selection day. That issue aside, I was hoping some of our more numerically-inclined/aware of NCAA logistics could answer a few things for me.

-Does the committee take into account margin of defeat? If so, Deis' loss to Wash.U. could also help?
-Does the committee take into account suspensions, injuries, and other external factors? Again, if they did, Deis could benefit perhaps a TINY bit since the blow-out on the road to WU would carry a slight asterix.

Anyone headed to the NYU game tomorrow? I think I may check it out. Obviously I'd love to be in the STL but living in NYC, this one will have to suffice. Pissed I didn't get back to the Lou this year, but perhaps they'll host and I'll fly out. Still, Salem is probably the closest they'll get to me, so I'm already keeping the fingers crossed on that front...

The 'official' answer to both questions would be 'no'.  Neither of these is a criterion, not even in the 'secondary criteria' list.

To the limited extent that subjectivity enters the decision-making process, I would have to assume that such factors could not be completely ruled out.

In d1 I think those thinks might be taken into account (for example with Blake Griffin being injured), but, especially for the suspensions, I dont think they would take the time to look up if every player who should have was playing in that game (I dont think they read through all these boards or through every teams' press releases and boxscores.

[deiscanton]

Anyone headed to the NYU game tomorrow? I think I may check it out.

I'm sure that you will have a good time, Marty.  Unfortunately, my financial circumstances prevent me from travelling to New York for the game this year, but I will try to go back to the Coles Center next January.  It will be the first time in a few years that I will miss out on an NYU Pep Band gig, but I cannot afford 2 nights in a hotel in New Jersey this time out when I may need some money for NCAAs on the women's side of things at the very least.

Of course, I will be listening to the doubleheader on the WBRS and/or WNYU audio feeds and following the live stats.

[pradam]

Anyone think Meehan is regretting that decision to bench his studs for the Wash.U. game? If the infractions were as insignificant as some have conjectured, you'd have to think that somewhere deep down he'd question his decision if things didn't go according to plan on selection day. That issue aside, I was hoping some of our more numerically-inclined/aware of NCAA logistics could answer a few things for me.

-Does the committee take into account margin of defeat? If so, Deis' loss to Wash.U. could also help?
-Does the committee take into account suspensions, injuries, and other external factors? Again, if they did, Deis could benefit perhaps a TINY bit since the blow-out on the road to WU would carry a slight asterix.

Anyone headed to the NYU game tomorrow? I think I may check it out. Obviously I'd love to be in the STL but living in NYC, this one will have to suffice. Pissed I didn't get back to the Lou this year, but perhaps they'll host and I'll fly out. Still, Salem is probably the closest they'll get to me, so I'm already keeping the fingers crossed on that front...

Nah.  Doubt Brandeis was winning at Wash U anyway.

The moments to regret were the home loss to Framingham, the road loss to Chicago and the two-point loss to Lasell to start the year.  If they win that Lasell game, they're a lock, you'd think. 

[theBroadcaster]

Anyone think Meehan is regretting that decision to bench his studs for the Wash.U. game? If the infractions were as insignificant as some have conjectured, you'd have to think that somewhere deep down he'd question his decision if things didn't go according to plan on selection day. That issue aside, I was hoping some of our more numerically-inclined/aware of NCAA logistics could answer a few things for me.

Nah.  Doubt Brandeis was winning at Wash U anyway.

The moments to regret were the home loss to Framingham, the road loss to Chicago and the two-point loss to Lasell to start the year.  If they win that Lasell game, they're a lock, you'd think. 

Agreed....the home loss to framingham was probably the most inexcusable.  As for the benching/suspensions, i actually think they were a blessing in disguise.  Seems to have lit a fire under a team that was languishing through a very disappointing, inconsistent season.  They haven't lost since....and guys like kenny small are playing their best ball of the year

[pradam]

Anyone think Meehan is regretting that decision to bench his studs for the Wash.U. game? If the infractions were as insignificant as some have conjectured, you'd have to think that somewhere deep down he'd question his decision if things didn't go according to plan on selection day. That issue aside, I was hoping some of our more numerically-inclined/aware of NCAA logistics could answer a few things for me.

Nah.  Doubt Brandeis was winning at Wash U anyway.

The moments to regret were the home loss to Framingham, the road loss to Chicago and the two-point loss to Lasell to start the year.  If they win that Lasell game, they're a lock, you'd think. 

Agreed....the home loss to framingham was probably the most inexcusable.  As for the benching/suspensions, i actually think they were a blessing in disguise.  Seems to have lit a fire under a team that was languishing through a very disappointing, inconsistent season.  They haven't lost since....and guys like kenny small are playing their best ball of the year

Right, and in reading between the lines based on conversations I and some of our reporters have had with people involved (this isn't fact, just an educated guess), the suspensions were not necessarily based on one single transgression, but rather a chronic buildup.  (Again, just an educated guess, no confirmation there).  Meehan told us something interesting when we were reporting on that story, but it never made it to print.  He was saying that what goes on off the court matters on the court, and that the team's on-court inconsistency was happening in part because of stuff going on off the court, including whatever he suspended the players for.  I'm not sure what he was getting at, but it's definitely no coincidence their play has really picked up since the incident.

May be too little too late if more top teams lose in conference tourneys, but I agree, blessing in disguise.

[pradam]

I actually think it has more to do with playing style. Starting Kenny smalls puts a faster paced, shooting heavy offense on the floor. I do not know what team rule yemga broke, and he is a good ball player and an all around nice guy, but the team that made the trip to UR without him was a completely different team and since then they have been shooting the ball hot and putting up big points and big wins.

I dont understand your comment completely.  Specifically having to do with putting up big points and big wins since playing at Rochester.  They have put up big points in one game (108 vs. Case) and have only played two games since playing at Rochester (Emory and Case, in the Emory game they scored 65 points). Those two wins arent that big either.

The weekend of the Rochester game they did have two nice wins, at CMU and Rochester, that they really needed to have, but that was after a horrible weekend where they lost to Chicago, (then something happened where 1/3 their team was suspended), and then were blown out by WashU.

I think, in general, whether it is Kenny Small or Roberson (Small is obviously the better scorer), they play better when they are a bit more up tempo because it tends to free up open shots for their shooters (other teams cant set up their half court D).  Olsen is lights out from 3, but he isnt a guy who is going to make a move with the ball and pull up for 3, he usually needs to be set up.  So anything that causes his, or other, defenders to have to rotate and help is a plus for their offense. 

As for Brandeis, in general, I think they are a very good team.  Whether they are deserving of a Pool C bid or not remains to be seen, depending on Pool A upsets and other things. With that said, I definitely thought that they should be ranked ahead of Amherst in the NE and was very glad to see that the committee had looked at the quality of Brandeis' schedule, wins, and losses when making their decision on the rankings this week and not just on the fact that they have 8 losses.

Let me see if this explanation furthers ILive4This', because I think he's on to something here with the playing style.

Brandeis has always been an up-tempo team since Meehan got here.  The problem is, for the first time in Meehan's tenure, his team lacks the depth to play that style.  Meehan shortened his rotation really early in the season, burying Hughes and Kryskas.  They basically went six deep, seven if you count McGee.  So while they have players best suited for fast-paced ball, they've played slower a lot this year because of their lack of depth.

I think that explains the big fluctuation in scoring totals.  Brandeis is a pretty efficient offensive team no matter what pace they play.  They're outshooting opponents, shooting way more free throws and turning the ball over less, all factors of a really efficient offense.  The difference has been that their pace fluctuates greatly because they want to play up-tempo, but lack the bodies to do it.  It's one of their major problems, methinks.  They play some games really fast and others slow. 

So I wouldn't read all that much into their point totals.  They're more a function of the pace problems than any sort of offensive capability.  Brandeis is an outstanding offensive team no matter how they play.  Their problems have been pace and defense. 

[quaj]

Congratulations to Wash. U. Coach Mark Edwards on his 500th victory as the Bears ended the regular season with a 72-49 victory over Chicago.

Chicago didn't have a point for the first six minutes of the game as Wash. U. surged to a 14 point lead. It was a combination of tough defense and some bad bounces.

I was very impressed in how both the Chicago and Wash. U. Pep Bands played the same songs together. That's dedication for the Chicago students to make the trip.

Good luck to the other UAA teams during selection time.

[Hugenerd]

CMU wins at Rochester today.  Rochester's Pool C chances are done.  CMU strengthens their resume, finishing the season 19-6 with one of those losses out of region (Richard Stockton).  I think they will likely make it, the only hangup could be the Pool A upsets that are occuring around the country and if Brandeis makes it into the top 8 before CMU is off the board.  They definitely helped themselves with the win today, though.  They will have to sweat it out, but I think they have a real good shot of making it, being the first or 2nd ranked team in the GL after the Pool As are handed out.

[pradam]

So Brandeis routs NYU 63-44, a very good end to the season.

Upsets around the country make it seem unlikely to me that the UAA will get three bids.  So, if there's a second team from the UAA (an open question in and of itself), who goes, Carnegie or Brandeis?

A quick comparison:

Brandeis - 17-8 in region, currently 8th in Northeast
-10th in OWP
-Wins against regionally-ranked teams: NE4 Rhode Island College, NE9 Amherst, GL3 Carnegie Mellon (twice), E5 Rochester (split),
-Manageable losses: MW2 Wash U (twice), NE1 WPI, NE5 Umass-Dartmouth
-Bad losses: Lasell, Framingham State, Chicago
-10-4 in UAA

Carnegie - 19-5 in region, currently 3rd in Great Lakes
-(not sure their OWP, but I'm sure Brandeis is way betteR)
-Wins against GL1 John Carroll, GL5 Wooster, E5 Rochester (twice)
-Manageable losses: MW2 Wash U (twice), A1 Richard Stockton (out of region, so doesn't count)
-Bad losses: Chicago, twice to Brandeis
-9-5 in UAA

The Chicago/Wash U situation cancels itself out.  Carnegie did better against Rochester, but Brandeis swept Carnegie and they have the better UAA record (FWIW).  Brandeis' OWP is better, but they have more losses in region.  Carnegie's wins over John Carroll and Wooster slightly trump Brandeis' wins over RIC and Amherst, but not by much.  Carnegie was home both times, while Brandeis won at Amherst (though, to be fair, the RIC win should mean less than it does because Bobby Bailey was out for RIC). 

So, it's close.  Carnegie's advantages are fewer bad losses, a better signature win (John Carroll>RIC) and a better regional record, albeit in a weaker region.  Brandeis' major advantage is the OWP.  Carnegie seems to have the edge, but it's slight.

And since it's slight, I'm wondering how the committee can possibly ignore the head-to-head situation and Brandeis' superior UAA record.  I know neither is supposed to play a major role in the committee's decision-making process, but I'd think Deis and Carnegie would be on the board at about the same time.  If so, how can you ignore those factors? 

Am I off base here?  Thoughts?