MBB: University Athletic Association

[dblock]

just got back from the NYU v Brandeis game at Coles.

Great game, NYU jumps out early, Brandeis fights right back to go up 34-28 at half time.

NYU cut Brandeis lead to 2 points at 54-52 with 5:11 to go.

Brandeis answered with a 3ptr from Olson to make it 57-52 and then pulled away from there.

It was a well played game from both teams and when it came down to it Brandeis just hit more shots

Brandeis shot 60% from the field vs NYU's 38.6% from the field.

Wasn't an easy win for Brandeis, they earned every point they scored.

[Rhodes Scholar]

I also saw the Brandeis @ NYU game yesterday. NYU led the first 15 minutes of the game and hung in there the whole game. The Violets looked better in this game than they did when I saw them against Geneseo State earlier this season. They had better intensity and ball movement, and played better defense. A major problem for NYU is they have no low post threat, which greatly restricts their options on offense. Richie Polan, a 6-8 freshman, played very well for NYU and finished with 22 points. He hit 5 three-pointers and is a deadly outside shooter with nice backspin on his shot.

Brandeis looked good--not great--and has good depth and balance. Terrell Hollins is a good interior scorer, Joe Coppens and Kevin Olson are excellent outside shooters, and Kwame Fulgham-Graves is a good floor general. 

[JustAFan]

I noticed that the 6-10 senior center on Brandeis (Saucier) hasn't played in a game this year. Is he hurt, or just not good enough to earn minutes in the regular rotation?

Looks like Brandeis is putting together a promising recruiting class for next year. See this link for details:  http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/281/Brandeis-Putting-Together-All-Star-Recruiting-Class.php

[bouttime]

With the start of UAA play underway, I think it should be noted of the rediculous non-conference record racked up by UAA teams. 69-14. As of today, all teams in the UAA are above .500. Also there are 3 (hopefully 4) teams in the top 25. With numbers like that, I dare anyone to name a better conference top to bottom in the country.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

With the start of UAA play underway, I think it should be noted of the rediculous non-conference record racked up by UAA teams. 69-14. As of today, all teams in the UAA are above .500. Also there are 3 (hopefully 4) teams in the top 25. With numbers like that, I dare anyone to name a better conference top to bottom in the country.

While I agree the UAA is off to a good start and I think they are one of the top conferences in the nation. I would argue the WIAC and the CCIW are perennially just as tough as the UAA has been in the last season and a half. And since I got to this message via the ODAC board, the ODAC is certainly a conference to enter the conversation of tough conferences... though not in my Top 3.

[ILive4This]

I think the discussion however is focussed on this season. And this season hands down the UAA is the top conference.  3 teams in the top 5 and another team in the top 25 there is just no beating that. There is no region that can boast that claim any longer, let alone a conference.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well, the ODAC, WIAC, and CCIW all have three teams in the Top 25 (with the WIAC having one team sitting at #26).

Your arguement certainly shows how strong the top of the UAA is. However, I think the WIAC and the CCIW are stronger below the top three or four teams. While the UAA's records for all their teams are above .500 you might want to take a look at other conferences before using that example as being the top conference.

The CCIW also has all over their 8 squads above .500; the NESCAC (home of Amherst and Williams) has 9 of their squads above .500; 7 or the 9 teams in the WIAC are above .500; and 7 of the 10 teams in the ODAC are above .500; heck, 7 of the 9 teams in the Empire 8 are above .500. (I may have missed other conferences, only concentrated on any in the Top 25.)

That all being said, just because a conference has all of their squads - or a majority of them - above .500 doesn't truely indicate how good a conference is top to bottom. If the team at the bottom is above .500 but has had a cupcake schedule... should that count equally to a team with a much tougher schedule?

Another arguement to why I wouldn't put the entire UAA at #1:
The CCIW has all of their teams above .500 and have also shown early in the season they all can beat each other. (Every team in the CCIW is 1-1 in conference at the time of this post.) That shows that the CCIW teams are not only enjoying winning records... but ANY team beat ANY team in the CCIW. Can the UAA really say its conference has that much parity?

While I agree the UAA has shown they are a very good conference, I don't know if I can say they are the top conference on the simple arguement that they have all of their teams above .500.

Just to put it out there, my rankings (based on my opinion on what I see with records and results) for this season:
1 - CCIW
2 - WIAC
3 - UAA
4 - NESCAC
5 - ODAC

And I am willing to bet that will change as we get further into conference action!

[Hugenerd]

Another arguement to why I wouldn't put the entire UAA at #1:
The CCIW has all of their teams above .500 and have also shown early in the season they all can beat each other. (Every team in the CCIW is 1-1 in conference at the time of this post.) That shows that the CCIW teams are not only enjoying winning records... but ANY team beat ANY team in the CCIW. Can the UAA really say its conference has that much parity?

Just like you said that bouttime's argument isnt valid, neither is yours.  Explain to me how everyone in the conference can be even against eachother when they have only played one game in conference.  How do you know the UAA isnt going to beat up on eachother?  Your argument is just as invalid as they one you argued against.

The bottom line is that the UAA has the #1, #2, #5, and #24 ranked teams in the country.  They are also ranked #1 by Massey in both the straightup and MOV rankings (and in those rankings they are rated over twice as high in the regular rankings, their rating is 0.542 versus #2 ODAC's 0.261, and significantly higherin the MOV, 0.544 versus 0.367 for NESCAC).  Out of conference, Rochester is undefeated, Brandeis only lost to UMD, CMU only llost to JHU on opening day, WU only lost two early games, NYU only lost two early games, and CWRU, EU, and UC are all 7-4. 

Right now, by the numbers alone, you really cant argue against the UAA.  The parity argument isnt valid yet because the UAA has only played one game in conference, so we really dont know yet how the UAA will shake out from top to bottom.

[ILive4This]

Also to the best of my knowledge the UAA is undefeated against both the Nescac and the Empire 8, so if we are going to put these conference head to head then they win that battle again.

If we are talking top to bottom, I am pretty sure Case or Emory would do work against Colby. Perhaps I am wrong, but just throwing in my two Lincolns.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Just like you said that bouttime's argument isnt valid, neither is yours.  Explain to me how everyone in the conference can be even against eachother when they have only played one game in conference.  How do you know the UAA isnt going to beat up on eachother?  Your argument is just as invalid as they one you argued against.

The CCIW has played two games in confernece... and each team in conference is 1-1 and no team won on the road. Augustana lost to North Park (away) before beating Elmhurst (home); Wheaton beat Carthage (home) and then lost to North Central (away); Elmhurst beat Milikin (home) before losing to Augustana (away); and despite the loss to Elmhurst, Milikin then beat North Park (home). I would keep going, but this is good enough for my point.

North Central, by the way, is one of the weaker teams in the CCIW strickly on overall record (.538) - same as the weakest overall record in the UAA.

The arguement that the UAA is the top conference being that all teams are above .500 is weak at this time in the season. The CCIW also has all of their teams above .500 AND they have show in the first two games of the season that any team can beat any team. I think that is an example of a strong conference from top to bottom then just the fact all teams are above .500. I don't see how there is anything wrong with that arguement.

At least I am presenting another fact to the arguement which I think is a stronger indicator as to a conference's strength top to bottom. Again, a team may be in last place in a conference and has an above .500 record, but if they have a cupcake schedule, shouldn't that matter as well?

Also, the UAA has another thing against them in the fact they do exist across the country. Do you really think the competition Rochester has the option of facing in the East Region even compares to the competition in the Midwest or even the Northeast? That is just one reason I am not sold on Rochester actually being the #1 team in the nation right now. If you want to compare losses outside of conference, also compare wins and the entire schedule. The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC, and ODAC have tough competition (and weak) in their regions. The UAA has some teams that have weaker competition around them or in their schedule, strickly because of the region they are actually located in.

Right now, by the numbers alone, you really cant argue against the UAA.  The parity argument isnt valid yet because the UAA has only played one game in conference, so we really dont know yet how the UAA will shake out from top to bottom.

Then how can the arguement be made for the UAA to be the top conference if the conference has only played one game? The arguement made was strickly on overall record... which as I showed with the CCIW doesn't hold that much water. If you are comparing it to the Top 25... anyone voting will tell you that this year the poll is very difficult to decide... and just because the UAA has 4 teams in the Top 25 doesn't necessarily mean they are a better conference as much as there is a LOT of parity this season - especially in the Top 25.

UAA - 4
CCIW - 3
WIAC - 3 (and one #26)
ODAC - 3
That's 13 of the 25 slots. There are still 12 other slots taken by 9 other conferences!

I will admit that the UAA certainly looks impressive this year as they did last year. I will admit that I am watching them very closely and they are a constant topic of conversation on Hoopsville each week. I am certainly looking forward to the Brandies/Rochester game Sunday, strickly to compare the two teams and get an idea of the top of the UAA.

Also to the best of my knowledge the UAA is undefeated against both the Nescac and the Empire 8, so if we are going to put these conference head to head then they win that battle again.

If we are talking top to bottom, I am pretty sure Case or Emory would do work against Colby. Perhaps I am wrong, but just throwing in my two Lincolns.

I was just showing that the NESCAC and the Empire 8 also have impressive overall records in their conferences - if the arguement is completely based on overall records for teams in conferences. Nothing more.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am a CCIW partisan (IWU) who will readily admit that the UAA is probably stronger at the top this year, but will concede nothing as far as top-to-bottom.  Head-to-head doesn't help much (I haven't checked all schedules, but I'm pretty sure that only Wash U and Chicago have played CCIW teams), at 2-2.  Both teams beat IWU at home (though Wash U only 'survived' by 3), but the Titans are VERY young (3 freshmen start, and there have been times that 4 freshmen and a sophomore who was injured his entire freshman year have been together on the floor.  Chicago lost to Wheaton; Wash U lost to Augie.

I'm doubtful that the CCIW has a Final Four candidate this year (though I'd be happy to be proven wrong), whereas the UAA (depending on placement) might have 2 or even 3 viable contenders.  But I would bet the ranch on our bottom half (if we ever figure out who they are!) beating the tar out of the bottom half of any other conference.  Knowing the WIAC, I'm usually afraid to say that, but this year I believe every CCIW team is top 100, even if none ends up in the top 10.

[Hugenerd]

Dave "d-mac" McHugh --

I presented the data from Massey as well.  I dont know exactly what criteria goes into this rating but "at least I am presenting another fact to the argument." WIAC and CCIW are not in the top 3 in either Massey rating (regular or MOV). Additionally I said nothing about the 0.500 benchmark in my comment, I was talking about the overall out of conference record for the UAA, and the UAA has the best out of conference record in the country (UAA: 70-18 (Massey incorrectly counts Emory's exhibition loss to davidson and NYU won tonight), 0.795; NESCAC: 92-27, 0.773; ODAC 47-21, 0.691; CCIW: 60-28, 0.682, and WIAC, 51-27, 0.654).

Additionally, since you are so adamant about this top to bottom argument, how can you put the WIAC ahead of the UAA when they have a team that is 3-11.

[Ralph Turner]

I am enjoying the discussion about the UAA.  As I analyze the South, Emory's loss to UT-Tyler (64-72) on a "friendly neutral" floor (Sewanee) was very ugly.  If UT-Tyler is Top 25 calibre, then the ASC is stronger thru the best 10 of its 15 teams than I thought. If Emory finishes stronger than 5-9 in the UAA, then I am surprised. 

Their opponents in the South are relatively weak.  I think that they under-performed considering  the teams played.  The criteria for Pool C selection is imminently favorable to the UAA where they each have about 30 -50 unique local schools against whom they can build a favorable non conference schedule.

[ILive4This]

I agree with you about Emory, I was actually proven wrong last weekend when I picked an improved Case team to win in Atlanta. When it really comes down to it though, I do not think they will win in Cleveland, and I am hard fought to find those other four wins for the eagles.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Dave "d-mac" McHugh --

I presented the data from Massey as well.  I dont know exactly what criteria goes into this rating but "at least I am presenting another fact to the argument." WIAC and CCIW are not in the top 3 in either Massey rating (regular or MOV). Additionally I said nothing about the 0.500 benchmark in my comment, I was talking about the overall out of conference record for the UAA, and the UAA has the best out of conference record in the country (UAA: 70-18 (Massey incorrectly counts Emory's exhibition loss to davidson and NYU won tonight), 0.795; NESCAC: 92-27, 0.773; ODAC 47-21, 0.691; CCIW: 60-28, 0.682, and WIAC, 51-27, 0.654).

Additionally, since you are so adamant about this top to bottom argument, how can you put the WIAC ahead of the UAA when they have a team that is 3-11.

The arguement that started this is debate was that every team in the UAA was above .500 - thus they should be considered the best conference in the nation.

With the start of UAA play underway, I think it should be noted of the rediculous non-conference record racked up by UAA teams. 69-14. As of today, all teams in the UAA are above .500. Also there are 3 (hopefully 4) teams in the top 25. With numbers like that, I dare anyone to name a better conference top to bottom in the country.

I took the dare... and named the CCIW and the WIAC. The reason I took the WIAC over the UAA right now is because I feel that they are a stronger conference from top-to-bottom than the UAA, at this time.

And I am willing to bet that will change as we get further into conference action!

I also pointed out that my thoughts on the fact may change.