MBB: University Athletic Association

[y_jack_lok]

I listened to part of the Wash U - Augie broad cast. It's the first time I've heard you guys. You do a very nice job.

[Titan Q]

But I wouldn't think there are any easy road games in the CCIW either, and maybe at best you could get one easy home game.

Augustana won the CCIW last year and went on to lose in overtime to eventual national champion Wash U in the NCAA tournament.  Here are Augie's CCIW road games in 2008:

@ North Park (6th) - lost
@ Carthage (5th) - lost
@ Illinois Wesleyan (T 2nd) - won by 4 (trailed by 5 with 3:05 to play)
@ Elmhurst (4th) - won by 9 (2 point game with 2:47 to play
@ Wheaton (T 2nd) - lost
@ Millikin (8th) - won by 3 (trailed by 1 with 3:53 to play)
@ North Central (7th) - won by 4 (trailed by 4 with 1:56 to play)

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2007-08/index.htm


CCIW teams don't travel via plane to road games and deal with all of the logistical hassel the UAA teams do, but road games are nasty.

[Ethelred the Unready]

But I wouldn't think there are any easy road games in the CCIW either, and maybe at best you could get one easy home game.

Augustana won the CCIW last year and went on to lose in overtime to eventual national champion Wash U in the NCAA tournament.  Here are Augie's CCIW road games in 2008:

@ North Park (6th) - lost
@ Carthage (5th) - lost
@ Illinois Wesleyan (T 2nd) - won by 4 (trailed by 5 with 3:05 to play)
@ Elmhurst (4th) - won by 9 (2 point game with 2:47 to play
@ Wheaton (T 2nd) - lost
@ Millikin (8th) - won by 3 (trailed by 1 with 3:53 to play)
@ North Central (7th) - won by 4 (trailed by 4 with 1:56 to play)

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2007-08/index.htm


CCIW teams don't travel via plane to road games and deal with all of the logistical hassel the UAA teams do, but road games are nasty.

UR was 22-6 in 07/08 with 4 losses in away UAA games.  The killer part of the schedule was back to back weekends playing WashU and Chicago.  Beat WashU in OT at home on Friday in maybe the best game I have seen, lost to Chicago by 9 on Sunday (WashU lost to CMU by 31 that Sunday) and then went to the midwest the next weekend for the rematch.  Tough teams and travel are a lethal combination.  Not familiar with the geography of the CCIW.  What are the travel distances, roughly?

@*Emory  76-81 L OT
@*Case Western Reserve  85-74 W
  @*Chicago  64-63 W
  @*Washington (MO)  53-54 L
  @*Brandeis  64-68 L
  @*NYU  85-92 L (2 OT)
  @*Carnegie Mellon  74-67 W

[Ralph Turner]

If the UAA has a home game as a breather, it is Emory.  The Eagles have strung together several 0-7 seasons on the road.

[pradam]

If the UAA has a home game as a breather, it is Emory.  The Eagles have strung together several 0-7 seasons on the road.

Ugh, bad memories from Brandeis' near-loss at home to Emory last year.  Brandeis got really, really lucky to win that one.

[Mr. Ypsi]

CCIW distances are all modest (at least compared to UAA or Ralph's teams!).  I'm going off memory rather than googling, but the four Chicagoland schools (North Park, Wheaton, North Central, and Elmhurst) are all within a handful (30?) miles of one another.  Carthage is perhaps 50 miles north of them, Augustana probably about 160 miles west, Illinois Wesleyan perhaps 125 miles south, and Millikin another 40 miles byond IWU.  So the absolute longest treks would be either Augie or Millikin to Carthage - perhaps 220 miles.

[Ralph Turner]

CCIW distances are all modest (at least compared to UAA or Ralph's teams!).  I'm going off memory rather than googling, but the four Chicagoland schools (North Park, Wheaton, North Central, and Elmhurst) are all within a handful (30?) miles of one another.  Carthage is perhaps 50 miles north of them, Augustana probably about 160 miles west, Illinois Wesleyan perhaps 125 miles south, and Millikin another 40 miles byond IWU.  So the absolute longest treks would be either Augie or Millikin to Carthage - perhaps 220 miles.

Refreshing people's memories to the distances involved, the ASC-East goes from Clinton MS on the east to UT-Dallas on the west, about 360 miles apart and then to Clarksville AR to the north about 322 miles to the northeast.  Clarksville AR to Pineville LA is 436 miles north to south.  Seven schools are in that division.

The ASC-West extends from Sul Ross State in Alpine TX on west to Abilene, TX on the east  313 miles and then southeast to Texas Lutheran in Seguin, 280 miles.  Texas Lutheran back west to Sul Ross State is 410 miles.  Eight schools are in that division

There are two other conferences to remember in terms of mileage.

The SCAC, Colorado College (Colorado Springs) on the West to Oglethorpe in Atlanta on the east, and Trinity in San Antonio on the south to Greencastle IN (DePauw) on the north, is 12 schools in two divisions.  (The SCAC is the UAA in concept without the plethora of airport hubs.)

The Northwest Conference is nine members from Whitworth in Spokane WA on the east to the rest of the conference on the western side of the states of Oregon and Washington.  That is about 400 miles across.

[Gregory Sager]

Another early season test in Anderson on Friday night when they take on Aurora.

I don't think that this will really be a test, unless it's one of those fun "you get five extra points if you spell your name correctly at the top of the paper" tests. Aurora has lost three-time All-American Larry Welton to graduation, and the Spartans no longer have their second-, third-, and fourth-leading scorers from last year, either. Aurora is very small and loaded with inexperienced players, and the Spartans will be 0-3 by the time that they face the Bears. Wash U will win this one by 25 points or more.

On the plus side, AU coach James Lancaster has a knack for developing teams that produce in league play in January and February, which means that this could be a good win for Wash U in terms of strength of schedule by the end of the regular season.

Tough teams and travel are a lethal combination.  Not familiar with the geography of the CCIW.  What are the travel distances, roughly?

Most CCIW games involve a one-to-two-hour bus or van ride. A few are shorter (Elmhurst and Wheaton, and Wheaton and North Central, are only fifteen minutes apart), some are longer (Carthage and Millikin are more than four hours apart, and Carthage and Augustana are almost four hours apart as well). I'm not downplaying the UAA experience of having to fly to distant cities and live in hotel rooms for three weekends every season, but there's a lot to be said on behalf of an airline seat if you're 6'5 that can't be said for a bus seat or a van seat. CCIW road trips are like Navy SEALS operations: You endure a long and uncomfortable ride to your target destination, you do your job in a hostile environment under very trying circumstances, and then you get out of Dodge and back to your home base as quickly as you can.

Of course, as Ralph points out, nobody has it worse than the ASC ... and the NWC and SCAC travel schemes are no picnics, either.

[Ethelred the Unready]

[

Tough teams and travel are a lethal combination.  Not familiar with the geography of the CCIW.  What are the travel distances, roughly?

Most CCIW games involve a one-to-two-hour bus or van ride. A few are shorter (Elmhurst and Wheaton, and Wheaton and North Central, are only fifteen minutes apart), some are longer (Carthage and Millikin are more than four hours apart, and Carthage and Augustana are almost four hours apart as well). I'm not downplaying the UAA experience of having to fly to distant cities and live in hotel rooms for three weekends every season, but there's a lot to be said on behalf of an airline seat if you're 6'5 that can't be said for a bus seat or a van seat. CCIW road trips are like Navy SEALS operations: You endure a long and uncomfortable ride to your target destination, you do your job in a hostile environment under very trying circumstances, and then you get out of Dodge and back to your home base as quickly as you can.

Of course, as Ralph points out, nobody has it worse than the ASC ... and the NWC and SCAC travel schemes are no picnics, either.

Really?  I'm 6'3" and there are few things I like less than crying babies and the clown in front of me deciding my legs make a nice support for his seat back during his nap.  I think I would prefer a motor coach where I got my own seat.  Unless you're saying that the CCIW guys ride those short yellow school buses.  Then I get it.   

That being said, I think the travel is one reason kids go to UAA schools.  I imagine that the chance to attend excellent academic schools and travel  has a cetain appeal to teenagers.

[massd3fan]

Good Day All,

   I haven't had a chance to sit down at the computer for a couple of weeks, but I was reading some of these posts on Brandeis and figured I would throw my $2 in (Today's equivalent of 2 cents from my day).

   I am not real familar with Brandeis Besides reading the insighful posts here), but I did attend the WPI-Brandeis game on Sat. night and was looking forward to seeing a Top 10 team play.  Unfortunately, I was very, very disappointed with Brandeis performance.  I'm not exactly sure of your process for your rankings, but obviously someone here missed the boat on this team.  I realize it was just one game, but since it was coming off an opening game loss, I was expecting a very high level of play.  I didn't see that at all.  Here are just a few points of what I did see.

A.  Their primary ball handlers pound the ball way too much.

B. How do you have a first team All-American on your team, and go multiple critical possesions with out him touching the ball.

C.  How do you not pound the ball inside on a consistent basis when you have the physical advantage.

I was amazed at how poorly Brandeis recognized things on the court, especially the guards.  At halftime, I was expecting to see them make an adjustment and work the ball inside much more.  WPI only has 2 players over 6'4", and one of them did not even play.  The one big guy who did play is not very athletic, but can take up space.  Early in the 2nd half, Brandeis was starting to go inside (Hollins & Deluca) and got some good looks.  They made a couple of hoops, then missed a couple, then seemed to abandon it altogether.

There were many points in the second half where you got the feeling they might make a run and you would expect that Deluca or Olson would start to take over, but thier teammates never really gave them the opportunity to do so.  I mean how does Olson play 30 minutes and only get 5 FGAs?

WPI played a great game, no doubt, but they actually tried to eat clock up and took themselves out of the flow they had been having throughout the game.  They had a number of possions in the last 6 or 7 minutes where they purposely pulled the ball out and then either got off a hurried shot as shot clock ran down, or committed a turnover.  They had a 17 pt lead around 5 or 6 minute mark and Brandeis had it down to 10 under 3 minutes.

Great win for WPI no question about that, but I do wonder if they can handle a tema commited to working the ball down low.

Brandeis does indeed seem to be a team trying seek an identity, but also looks like a team that the coach is having trouble getting the reins on.


   

[David Collinge]

There are two other conferences to remember in terms of mileage.

The SCAC, Colorado College (Colorado Springs) on the West to Oglethorpe in Atlanta on the east, and Trinity in San Antonio on the south to Greencastle IN (DePauw) on the north, is 12 schools in two divisions.  (The SCAC is the UAA in concept without the plethora of airport hubs.)

The Northwest Conference is nine members from Whitworth in Spokane WA on the east to the rest of the conference on the western side of the states of Oregon and Washington.  That is about 400 miles across.

Allegheny College (Meadville, PA) and Wabash College (Crawfordsville, IN), both members of the North Coast Athletic Conference, are 455 miles apart.  Wabash has no conference opponents within 100 miles, and only two (of nine) within 180 miles.  Allegheny's nearest NCAC foe (Hiram College) is 75 miles away, and has six conference rivals more than 200 miles distant.

[fcnews]

How about the NEAC with Univ. Dallas?

[Ethelred the Unready]

How about the NEAC with Univ. Dallas?

Well, that truely deserves some kind of prize.

I was surprized that the closest trip for UR is CMU at 224, with CWRU at 238 and NYU 251.  Brandeis at 338, Chicago at 520, WashU at 728 and Emory 745.

This is a big country folks.

[Hugenerd]

CMU buses to CWRU and Rochester, but flies to the other 5 cities.  However, they also bus between New York and Boston for the NYU/Brandeis weekend.  The total season flights (in-conference) are 7 for CMU (I am not sure if it is the same for every team):  Trip 1: fly to WashU/Chicago, then fly to Chicago/WashU, then fly home (3 total flights).  Trip 2: fly to emory, then fly home (also that weekend, bus to and from cwru, 2 flights total).  Trip 3: Fly to Brandeis/NYU, bus to NYU/Brandeis, then fly home (2 flights total).  Trip 4: bus to and from Rochester.  So a total of 7.  Usually you would leave on a Thursday in the early afternoon for a flight and not return until sunday evenings on these weekends (in 2004-05 there was an ice storm in atlanta, of all places, and we were stuck there for 2-3 additional days).

I would suspect that some teams have to fly more.  Emory probably has to fly 3 times on the WashU/Chicago weekend, at least twice for the CMU/Rochester weekend (maybe 3 if they fly in between pgh and rochester), twice on the NYU/Brandeis trip, and then twice on the CWRU trip.  That would be 9 or 10 flights.  I think the most would be 10 by any team (for conference games only), unless one team decides to fly between Boston and NY. Some teams also play in holiday tourneys which also require travel.

[pabegg]

Here's WashU's travel plans, copied from page 86 of the media guide:

2008-09 Washington University Travel Plans
Nov. 15-16 at Colorado College Classic ... Depart Friday, Nov. 14, at 11:25 a.m., via United Airlines Flight #7916 to Denver, Colo ... Game time on Saturday at 1 p.m. (MT), and on Sunday at 1 or 3 p.m. (MT) ... Return home on Sunday, Nov. 16, at 9:15 p.m., via United Airlines #7908.
Nov. 22 at Augustana College ... Depart Saturday, Nov. 22, at 9 a.m. via Charter Bus to Rock Island, Ill. ... Game time on Saturday at 5:15 p.m. for junior varsity and 7:30 p.m. for varsity ... Return home following game.
Nov. 28-29 at Anderson University Tournament ... Depart Thursday, Nov. 27, at 4 p.m., via Charter Bus to
Anderson, Ind. ... Game time on Friday at 6 p.m. (ET), and on Saturday at 1 or 3 p.m. (ET) ... Return home following game.
Dec. 19-20 at Elmhurst College Classic ... Depart Thursday, Dec. 18, at 7 p.m., via Charter Bus to Elmhurst, Ill. ... Game time on Friday at 5 p.m. and on Saturday at 2 or 4 p.m. ... Return home following game.
Jan. 5 at Webster University ... Depart Monday, Jan. 5, at 6 p.m. via vans to St. Louis, Mo. ... Game time on Monday at 8 p.m. ... Return home following game.
Jan. 10 at University of Chicago ... Depart Friday, Jan. 9 at 6:30 a.m., via Charter Bus to Chicago, Ill. ... Game time on Saturday at 3 p.m. ... Return home following game.
Jan. 23 at University of Rochester ... Depart Thursday, Jan. 22 at 6:05 a.m. via Delta Airlines Flight #1119 to Atlanta, Ga. ... Depart at 10:20 a.m. via Southwest Airlines Flight #294 to Rochester, N.Y. ... Game time on Friday at 8 p.m. (ET).
Jan. 25 at Carnegie Mellon University ... Depart Saturday, Jan. 24, at 8 a.m., via Charter Bus from Rochester, N.Y., to Pittsburgh, Pa. ... Game time on Sunday at Noon (ET) ... Return home on Sunday, Jan. 25, at 7:27 p.m., via Air Tran Airlines Flight #991, to Atlanta, Ga. ... Depart Atlanta at 9:50 p.m., via Air Tran Airlines Flight #792.
Jan. 30 at Brandeis University ... Depart Thursday, Jan. 29, at 7:45 a.m., via American Airlines Flight #2481 to Chicago, Ill. ... Depart Chicago at 10:15 a.m., via American Airlines Flight #444 to Boston, Mass. ... Game  time on Friday at 8 p.m. (ET).
Feb. 1 at New York University ... Depart, Saturday, Jan. 31, at 8 a.m., via Charter Bus from Boston, Mass., to New York, N.Y. ...Game time on Sunday at Noon (ET) ... Return home on Sunday, Feb. 1, at 8:10 p.m., via American Airlines Flight #2019.
Feb. 13 at Emory University ... Depart Thursday, Feb. 12, at 7:25 a.m., via Delta Airlines Flight #796 to Atlanta, Ga. ... Game time on Friday at 8 p.m. (ET).
Feb. 15 at Case Western Reserve University ... Depart Saturday, Feb. 14, at 9:45 a.m., via Continental Airlines Flight #2450, to Cleveland, Ohio ... Game time on Sunday at Noon (ET) ...Return home on Sunday, Feb. 15, at 8:45 p.m., via Continental Airlines
Flight #5833.

Interesting that the 3 league flying trips are Thursday AM departures.

As a pre-UAA WashU alum (team manager), we had one flying trip a year (junior year we got snowed in at Trinity TX with a foot of snow and missed the first day of classes in January!) and had lots of van rides around the midwest. So I can't relate to the modern WashU experience but it would seem to me that the toughest part of these trips is the Sunday road game after playing Friday and traveling Saturday with three nights in two separate hotels.

By contrast, Augustana doesn't have a true road trip all season, only single games away, and doesn't have any games fewer than three days apart (until the CCIW tournament).