Eastern Collegiate Football Conference

[Frank Rossi]

No offense, Ralph, but which would you rather say?  "We got into the playoffs after winning our 7-team conference!" or "We didn't make the playoffs, but we were runners-up in our 14-team conference!"?

[Ralph Turner]

No offense, Ralph, but which would you rather say?  "We got into the playoffs after winning our 7-team conference!" or "We didn't make the playoffs, but we were runners-up in our 14-team conference!"?

No offense taken.  It is what we have lived with in the ASC for a decade. 

I stated the comment that way, because the other 20-odd conferences have gotten a Pool C bid at the expense of the NEFC.

And the consequence in the Directors' Cup is that you cut the number of points that your conference members can earn in half.

[Ralph Turner]

Tie breaker for the ECFC.

Norwich, Maritime and Gallaudet settle this in the next 3 weeks.  A three-way tie could develop.

Two Teams
Head to Head Results


Three or More Teams

Best Record Among Tied Team (in this step, only contests among the tied schools will be used).
Comparison of results against conference opponents one team at a time starting with the highest ranked team and continuing in downward rank order until the tie is broken.
Results against non-conference common opponents (in this step, only opponents who competed against all tied schools will be considered).
Opponents Winning Percentage (OWP)  for all Division III opponents as determined by the NCAA system (both in and out of region are used in this calculation).
Overall Winning Percentage for all games against NCAA Division III opponents.
Coin Toss.

[lewdogg11]

Tie breaker for the ECFC.

Norwich, Maritime and Gallaudet settle this in the next 3 weeks.  A three-way tie could develop.

Two Teams
Head to Head Results


Three or More Teams

Best Record Among Tied Team (in this step, only contests among the tied schools will be used).
Comparison of results against conference opponents one team at a time starting with the highest ranked team and continuing in downward rank order until the tie is broken.
Results against non-conference common opponents (in this step, only opponents who competed against all tied schools will be considered).
Opponents Winning Percentage (OWP)  for all Division III opponents as determined by the NCAA system (both in and out of region are used in this calculation).
Overall Winning Percentage for all games against NCAA Division III opponents.
Coin Toss.

Get your popcorn ready!  Whoever comes out on top has the privilege of losing by 10 Touchdowns in the postseason...

[Yanks 99]

Tie breaker for the ECFC.

Norwich, Maritime and Gallaudet settle this in the next 3 weeks.  A three-way tie could develop.

Two Teams
Head to Head Results


Three or More Teams

Best Record Among Tied Team (in this step, only contests among the tied schools will be used).
Comparison of results against conference opponents one team at a time starting with the highest ranked team and continuing in downward rank order until the tie is broken.
Results against non-conference common opponents (in this step, only opponents who competed against all tied schools will be considered).
Opponents Winning Percentage (OWP)  for all Division III opponents as determined by the NCAA system (both in and out of region are used in this calculation).
Overall Winning Percentage for all games against NCAA Division III opponents.
Coin Toss.

Get your popcorn ready!  Whoever comes out on top has the privilege of losing by 10 Touchdowns in the postseason...

To quote Bart Scott..."CAN'T WAIT!!!"...

[Steve Wiitala]

Considering that Norwich runs the table in the League, but loses all their non-conference games, this won't necessarily be a good outcome with the first Pool A bid for the ECFC.

[Bombers798891]

Considering that Norwich runs the table in the League, but loses all their non-conference games, this won't necessarily be a good outcome with the first Pool A bid for the ECFC.

Co-sign. When you lose to St. Lawrence and Hartwick (4-13 combined) convincingly, you're just not that good. But it's a lot easier to make the playoffs when you can beat up on the Hussons/Anna Marias/Beckers of the world I guess

[DanPadavona]

Considering that Norwich runs the table in the League, but loses all their non-conference games, this won't necessarily be a good outcome with the first Pool A bid for the ECFC.

It's a flat out embarrassment. And I believe it sets a bad precedent. If the only qualification for a Pool A bid is 7 teams joining together, then what is to stop any 7 horrible teams from forming a conference in any region to guarantee themselves a playoff birth? Because that is exactly what has happened here.

I would like to see some type of criteria to guarantee a Pool A bid. Like at least two conference members must have made the NCAA playoffs in the last decade, or at least one member has actually won an NCAA playoff game in the last decade.

You could even have a probationary period, whereby if a new conference fails to win an NCAA game after 5 consecutive Pool A bids, the automatic bid goes away until somebody wins a playoff game as an at-large selection.

It just seems to me that anything would be more logical than allowing 7 bottom tier teams to form a conference and swallow a playoff spot. At the very least, can't we vote them out of the region and force them to be Northern? 

[Yanks 99]

Considering that Norwich runs the table in the League, but loses all their non-conference games, this won't necessarily be a good outcome with the first Pool A bid for the ECFC.

Co-sign. When you lose to St. Lawrence and Hartwick (4-13 combined) convincingly, you're just not that good. But it's a lot easier to make the playoffs when you can beat up on the Hussons/Anna Marias/Beckers of the world I guess

Norwich making the NCAA's is awful.  You know me...and I have made it no secret that I am a Hartwick fan.  But when the team that finishes dead last in the Empire 8 monkey stomps the ECFC conference champion...you know, the same team that left the E8 three years ago because they were sick and tired of being a whipping post to the rest of the league...it is simply awful.

There is also the aspect that they (Norwich) were leading WNEC (who will almost certainly win the NEFC) with less then 2 minutes to go in the game.  For a long time I have been arguing that the East Region isn't the weakest region, and that they should stop sending MUC over.  As long as these two conference keep getting Pool A bids (and they will) and because of their location (pinned up against the Northeast coast...ensuring that they have to be in the East Region), the East will remain what is considered the weakest region until these guys step up their game in a big, big way.

[DanPadavona]

I couldn't agree more Yanks. I just think at some point the NCAA has to look at how they award automatic bids, and decide if the policy of being inclusive is being taken advantage of.

[Steve Wiitala]

I am a retired Norwich faculty member, and much more an expert in hockey matters, but I was surprised that the ECFC was given a Pool A slot.  From hockey discussions, I thought that there were restrictions on single sport conferences being given Pool A status.  The MCHA had to fight tooth and nail to be given Pool A for hockey, but because of its status as a single sport conference the NCAA was very reluctant to grant it.  Meanwhile, the MASCAC goes out and picks up two affiliate members and because it is a multi-sport conference got the green light all the way through the process.

Given what the MCHA went through, I would have expected NCAA resistance to the ECFC.  I was surprised to hear they had been granted that status.  The problem in any sport is that weak conferences given Pool A status eat up Pool B and C slots.  Hockey now has no Pool B slots, but one league with 5 very strong members fighting for Pool C bids.  Meanwhile the MASCAC gets a free pass.  My point is that the problem is the NCAA's one size fits all formula for all sports.  A better plan would be to award half of the size of the field Pool A bids based on out of conference and post season success of the league over the last x years.  Reserve some Pool B slots for independents and teams in conferences that didn't make the Pool A list, and the rest goes to Pool C.  To me, that's logical, but, logical and NCAA never belong in the same sentence.

[Jonny Utah]

I am a retired Norwich faculty member, and much more an expert in hockey matters, but I was surprised that the ECFC was given a Pool A slot.  From hockey discussions, I thought that there were restrictions on single sport conferences being given Pool A status.  The MCHA had to fight tooth and nail to be given Pool A for hockey, but because of its status as a single sport conference the NCAA was very reluctant to grant it.  Meanwhile, the MASCAC goes out and picks up two affiliate members and because it is a multi-sport conference got the green light all the way through the process.

Given what the MCHA went through, I would have expected NCAA resistance to the ECFC.  I was surprised to hear they had been granted that status.  The problem in any sport is that weak conferences given Pool A status eat up Pool B and C slots.  Hockey now has no Pool B slots, but one league with 5 very strong members fighting for Pool C bids.  Meanwhile the MASCAC gets a free pass.  My point is that the problem is the NCAA's one size fits all formula for all sports.  A better plan would be to award half of the size of the field Pool A bids based on out of conference and post season success of the league over the last x years.  Reserve some Pool B slots for independents and teams in conferences that didn't make the Pool A list, and the rest goes to Pool C.  To me, that's logical, but, logical and NCAA never belong in the same sentence.

The NCAA doesn't care if the best teams make the playoffs.  They want all subjectivity taken out of playoff picks.  32 leagues with 32 pool A bids would be the NCAAs dream.

[Bombers798891]

Considering that Norwich runs the table in the League, but loses all their non-conference games, this won't necessarily be a good outcome with the first Pool A bid for the ECFC.

It's a flat out embarrassment. And I believe it sets a bad precedent. If the only qualification for a Pool A bid is 7 teams joining together, then what is to stop any 7 horrible teams from forming a conference in any region to guarantee themselves a playoff birth? Because that is exactly what has happened here.

I would like to see some type of criteria to guarantee a Pool A bid. Like at least two conference members must have made the NCAA playoffs in the last decade, or at least one member has actually won an NCAA playoff game in the last decade.

You could even have a probationary period, whereby if a new conference fails to win an NCAA game after 5 consecutive Pool A bids, the automatic bid goes away until somebody wins a playoff game as an at-large selection.

It just seems to me that anything would be more logical than allowing 7 bottom tier teams to form a conference and swallow a playoff spot. At the very least, can't we vote them out of the region and force them to be Northern? 

What Mount or Whitewater would do to them would be sad.

I had proposed something similar on the ERFP board, about how there needed to be some sort of criteria for a Pool A bid. The Norwich thing is just so blatantly obvious. Of course, now that we've pointed out their flaws, they'll probably pull a Curry and beat Salisbury or Del Valley or whoever they play

[AUKaz00]

I thought that there were restrictions on single sport conferences being given Pool A status.

I'm pretty sure there is a requirement that more than half of the teams in a single sport conference need to be members in one conference for all sports.  So, it's slightly harder to accomplish than the seven worst football teams banding together to form a conference unless four of them are willing to be part of a conference for all sports, which is likely an untenable proposition.

[ExTartanPlayer]

It's a flat out embarrassment. And I believe it sets a bad precedent. If the only qualification for a Pool A bid is 7 teams joining together, then what is to stop any 7 horrible teams from forming a conference in any region to guarantee themselves a playoff birth? Because that is exactly what has happened here.

I think that you're really overrating the "gravity" that a Division III football playoff berth has on an institution's decision to join a conference. 

Suppose you're the athletic director in the Northeast with a startup football program and you're looking for a conference affiliation.  Further, suppose that you KNOW that your school has relatively limited resources to support the football program and that it's going to be relatively difficult to compete with a traditionally strong Division III football conference.

Yes, I know, there are plenty of you guns-a-blazing types that would go in full force against the toughest competition out there because to be the best, you have to beat the best.  Do you really think that was the motivation for starting a football program at some of these places (Gallaudet, for instance)?  Winning national championships?

More likely, the program was established to increase male applications (not a trivial goal, especially in an era when it's much easier for colleges to come by qualified female applicants than male applications) & build some campus spirit.  You know, silly ideals like that.  In that case, wouldn't you look for a conference with schools in a relatively similar position?

I don't think that the ECFC schools banded together because they were trying to game the system and get a playoff berth; I think they formed a football conference because they provided a logical competitive fit for one another (the same reason that the NEFC schools continue to play one another).  The playoff berth is merely an added bonus.

Perhaps you'd prefer to see conferences like this act more like the NESCAC (which really isn't a bad suggestion) and shun the playoffs.  However, I think these teams really benefit from the knowledge that AQ access is there at the end of the season, giving them a rallying point throughout the conference season, and I think that's the only way that these conferences will EVER improve - continuing to compete for a playoff berth.

One suggestion that I think WOULD have some merit would be requiring a longer probationary period before granting a Pool A berth to startup conferences (perhaps 4 years), with the hope that the programs would be on more solid footing after a full four-year cycle, and that the overall competition would be stronger by then.