CCIW

[Thunder1]

Gentlemen. Interesting discussion on foreign vs American players. I have no problem with foreign players coming to the states to play but you have to admit having 17 players (9 out of 11 starters) from Sweden is quite unusual. I don't think there is another NCAA team in the country in any division with this many foreign players much less from the same country. I think the concern people have is that these players act like professional players and tend to be "a year or two older" as you stated. Just pointing out the perception. This sentiment was demonstrated at the NP v Wheaton game at Wheaton. As they announced the starting lineup for NP, the Wheaton crowd cheered wildly when they got to the kid from CO after 8 straight players announced from Sweden. It was a funny moment in a great rivalry game. The Swedish connection just adds to the drama. (By the way, I am Swedish and am familiar with the Covenant church, so I get the NP/Swedish connection)

As for the Wheaton roster, it is still quite diverse with players from TN, MI, CA, NY, IN, NC and France. They have to cast their recruiting net a little wider because of the academic (30 ACT average) and religious requirements of the college.

[markerickson]

Keeker:  I thought I counted 17 kids from Illinois on the North Park roster.  Born clearly recruits locally.

And why no critical comment about Loras' lack of Iowa kids?

[keeker]

What's with the hate, keeker? I had no idea that you were in the same let's-dump-on-NPU boat at blue_jays.

No hate what so ever greg. I love north park. A long time ago my best friends wife worked there in the admissions office.  I like the local boy dawood. Probably one of your best dribblers but physically too weak. If he were strong like filip, even though they are both willowy, dawood could contribute a lot more. I think north park has one of the best supporters in all of d3 soccer and it's always fun to watch games at holmgren stadium. I gotta get me a north park id so I can get in free though. In many ways, it's a great experience and "privilege" for players who get to play NPU with its mainly foreign born line up. I'd rather play against teams like NPU than your typical d3 schools where everyone is basically from same high school. D3 soccer needs more teamd like Npu.  Btw, Dennis Persson is the best left back in cciw, better than anthony of wheaton. Look forward to watching him next three years, that is if he doesn't flunk out of his econ classes.

[Mr. Ypsi]

What's with the hate, keeker? I had no idea that you were in the same let's-dump-on-NPU boat at blue_jays.

No hate what so ever greg. I love north park. A long time ago my best friends wife worked there in the admissions office.  I like the local boy dawood. Probably one of your best dribblers but physically too weak. If he were strong like filip, even though they are both willowy, dawood could contribute a lot more. I think north park has one of the best supporters in all of d3 soccer and it's always fun to watch games at holmgren stadium. I gotta get me a north park id so I can get in free though. In many ways, it's a great experience and "privilege" for players who get to play NPU with its mainly foreign born line up. I'd rather play against teams like NPU than your typical d3 schools where everyone is basically from same high school. D3 soccer needs more teamd like Npu.  Btw, Dennis Persson is the best left back in cciw, better than anthony of wheaton. Look forward to watching him next three years, that is if he doesn't flunk out of his econ classes.

Sure glad he addressed Greg in the first line, or with his quoting mishap I'd be dragged into another fight I have no dog in!

[Jim Matson]

Greg knows I like the Norwegian comments. Shoulda gone to St. Olaf....

[KICKIN95]

And why no critical comment about Loras' lack of Iowa kids?

I don't know, probably because 4 of the starters/major players are from Iowa and 3 of those being from Dubuque.  The reason for all the Illinois players is the simple fact that nearly half of the enrollment consistently hails from Illinois and more specifically the Chicagoland area.  Loras is an historically strong Catholic school with a long lineage of Irish and Italian Catholics to be more specific.  The "Other" IIAC Dubuque school (UD) was originally a College of mostly German Presbyterian decent and since Dubuque was pretty much a 50/50 split of Irish & German Catholics and German Presbyterians it made sense that if Loras wanted more students they were going to have to look outside of the city to do so.

[Puerco Espin]

KICKIN - Isn't Rothert's coaching style also a factor? A lot of Iowa kids tend to be all around good athletes (Rummelhart, Koenig, Burgmeier), whereas Illinois has produced some pretty good technical kids (Cavers, Fluegel, etc). Obviously not the case with everyone, but just more of an observation.

[KICKIN95]

KICKIN - Isn't Rothert's coaching style also a factor? A lot of Iowa kids tend to be all around good athletes (Rummelhart, Koenig, Burgmeier), whereas Illinois has produced some pretty good technical kids (Cavers, Fluegel, etc). Obviously not the case with everyone, but just more of an observation.

That may have a little to do with it, but I think more than anything is the fact that the quality of players in Iowa just isn't that of those in Illinois. I am not knocking Iowa, I am a product of Iowa soccer (take that one how you want ). Actually Coach Pucci and I had a conversation about this topic (Iowa athletes vs Illinois technical) after the St Scholastica match on saturday.  You need both, just need to find the right positions for them to meld together and I think Rothert does an excellent job of conducting that orchestra.

[Madhatter5]

Gentlemen. Interesting discussion on foreign vs American players. I have no problem with foreign players coming to the states to play but you have to admit having 17 players (9 out of 11 starters) from Sweden is quite unusual. I don't think there is another NCAA team in the country in any division with this many foreign players much less from the same country. I think the concern people have is that these players act like professional players and tend to be "a year or two older" as you stated. Just pointing out the perception. This sentiment was demonstrated at the NP v Wheaton game at Wheaton. As they announced the starting lineup for NP, the Wheaton crowd cheered wildly when they got to the kid from CO after 8 straight players announced from Sweden. It was a funny moment in a great rivalry game. The Swedish connection just adds to the drama. (By the way, I am Swedish and am familiar with the Covenant church, so I get the NP/Swedish connection)

As for the Wheaton roster, it is still quite diverse with players from TN, MI, CA, NY, IN, NC and France. They have to cast their recruiting net a little wider because of the academic (30 ACT average) and religious requirements of the college.

North Carolina Wesleyan is a school that recruits greatly out of the US. 18 out of the 31 players are currently from out of the country, and one that doesn't appear to be from anywhere  . Loras played them in 2007 in the Sweet 16 and, if I recall correctly, majority of the starters were from overseas. They recruit players to come play for a year or two and have them scouted to get moved up to D1/D2 schools, so I heard. I also heard that Coach Rothert received some scouting video's from other teams and didn't show his team much of the videos due to the skill of NCW and didn't want to scare/discourage the team before the game. 

[KICKIN95]

Gentlemen. Interesting discussion on foreign vs American players. I have no problem with foreign players coming to the states to play but you have to admit having 17 players (9 out of 11 starters) from Sweden is quite unusual. I don't think there is another NCAA team in the country in any division with this many foreign players much less from the same country. I think the concern people have is that these players act like professional players and tend to be "a year or two older" as you stated. Just pointing out the perception. This sentiment was demonstrated at the NP v Wheaton game at Wheaton. As they announced the starting lineup for NP, the Wheaton crowd cheered wildly when they got to the kid from CO after 8 straight players announced from Sweden. It was a funny moment in a great rivalry game. The Swedish connection just adds to the drama. (By the way, I am Swedish and am familiar with the Covenant church, so I get the NP/Swedish connection)

As for the Wheaton roster, it is still quite diverse with players from TN, MI, CA, NY, IN, NC and France. They have to cast their recruiting net a little wider because of the academic (30 ACT average) and religious requirements of the college.

North Carolina Wesleyan is a school that recruits greatly out of the US. 18 out of the 31 players are currently from out of the country, and one that doesn't appear to be from anywhere  . Loras played them in 2007 in the Sweet 16 and, if I recall correctly, majority of the starters were from overseas. They recruit players to come play for a year or two and have them scouted to get moved up to D1/D2 schools, so I heard. I also heard that Coach Rothert received some scouting video's from other teams and didn't show his team much of the videos due to the skill of NCW and didn't want to scare/discourage the team before the game. 

I drove down to NCW for those matches. NCW had a few players in the mid 20's and were 10 of the 11 were from foreign countries.  That team was very skilled, but they lacked cohesiveness and a team mentality.

I actually have no problem with a school that plays all foreign players or no foreign players.  These kids are here to go to school and play soccer, who cares where they come from.  Apparently these teams with a majority of foreign players isn't much of an issue since I cannot recall any of them every winning a title or even making themselves a reoccurring presence in the tourney.  Because this is DIII and not DI does being a foreign born player constitute cheating, maybe they might actually be attending for the education and not strictly the sport.  If they were here for the sport first and school second they would go somewhere that would pick up the check on tuition.

[Gregory Sager]

Gentlemen. Interesting discussion on foreign vs American players. I have no problem with foreign players coming to the states to play but you have to admit having 17 players (9 out of 11 starters) from Sweden is quite unusual. I don't think there is another NCAA team in the country in any division with this many foreign players much less from the same country. I think the concern people have is that these players act like professional players and tend to be "a year or two older" as you stated. Just pointing out the perception.

What does "act like professional players" mean? Are they doing ads for Adidas and Gatorade or signing autographs at $10 a pop out at the Rosemont Convention Center?

This sentiment was demonstrated at the NP v Wheaton game at Wheaton. As they announced the starting lineup for NP, the Wheaton crowd cheered wildly when they got to the kid from CO after 8 straight players announced from Sweden. It was a funny moment in a great rivalry game. The Swedish connection just adds to the drama. (By the way, I am Swedish and am familiar with the Covenant church, so I get the NP/Swedish connection)

"The Wheaton crowd cheered wildly" ... five words that have probably never appeared in the same sentence before.

That whole dump-on-the-Swedes, let's-wave-the-American-flag thing is, in my opinion, a wonderful aspect of the rivalry. Same thing with the "Beat North Park" t-shirts that the Wheaties were wearing a week ago Saturday. As Jim will attest, it's so flippin' hard to get Wheaton folks to care about anything sports-related (including their own teams) that forging a rivalry with Wheaton -- a true, you-don't-like-us-and-we-don't-like-you rivalry -- is extremely difficult. NPU has tried to foster one (no pun intended) for years, given that almost every Parker has seen Wheaton as the school's natural rival for generations, and yet this has been met with total indifference from the Wheaton side of things.

Now Wheaton's coming back with some taunts and some energy of its own. Wheaton cares about this rivalry now. And I love it! When I asked John Born about the "Beat North Park" t-shirts, he grinned from ear to ear and said, "That's what respect looks like."

It took NPU until 2001, after going 0-20 against Wheaton in their first twenty matchups once the Park had made soccer a varsity sport in the early '80s, before the Vikings finally beat the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance. Heck, it took North Park until its seventh match against Wheaton just to score on them. So, yeah, carping about all of the Swedes on our roster? Music to our ears.

As for the Wheaton roster, it is still quite diverse with players from TN, MI, CA, NY, IN, NC and France. They have to cast their recruiting net a little wider because of the academic (30 ACT average) and religious requirements of the college.

It's still the most Illinois-centric roster on the Wheaton campus. In fact, it's more Illinois-centric than NPU's roster; you have 16 players from the Land of Lincoln, we have 15. That's probably the first time that that's ever happened in any sport as far as the two schools are concerned since Wheaton rejoined the CCIW in 1968-69.

Greg knows I like the Norwegian comments. Shoulda gone to St. Olaf....

Norwegians are used to living in the middle of nowhere as far as the main centers of civilization are concerned. Why compound the problem by moving to the U.S. to go to school for four years, only to spend it in a town that's an hour's drive from the nearest city?

North Carolina Wesleyan is a school that recruits greatly out of the US. 18 out of the 31 players are currently from out of the country, and one that doesn't appear to be from anywhere  .

Two of NPU's Swedes, Jakob Aronsson and Robin Hals, transferred to the Park from North Carolina Wesleyan.

I actually have no problem with a school that plays all foreign players or no foreign players.  These kids are here to go to school and play soccer, who cares where they come from.

This.

I understand why Wheaton wants to make a big deal out of NPU's Swede-heavy lineup, but I can't honestly see what difference it makes.

Apparently these teams with a majority of foreign players isn't much of an issue since I cannot recall any of them every winning a title or even making themselves a reoccurring presence in the tourney.

Correlation does not equal causation. And since NPU's been in the last three tourneys, I'd say that the Vikings have qualified as a "reoccurring" [sic] presence in November.

Because this is DIII and not DI does being a foreign born player constitute cheating, maybe they might actually be attending for the education and not strictly the sport.  If they were here for the sport first and school second they would go somewhere that would pick up the check on tuition.

Precisely. What I don't think people realize is that higher education in Sweden is free. By contrast, if you're a Swede who wants to go overseas to attend college, you'll have to pay most of the bill for tuition and room & board out of your own pocket. The amount of aid that the Swedish government will give you to attend a foreign college or university is very limited, and the U.S. government won't give you anything at all. You can't blame the Swedish government for that, because it's a smart policy; it prevents a brain drain by providing a compelling economic incentive to the country's young people to stay home to get their education. But, as a result, unless you're going to America to attend school on a scholarship (soccer or otherwise), you're going to really need a compelling reason to do so. In other words, it's hardly the case that good Swedish soccer players are falling off the trees and NPU's just raking them up. It takes some persuasion. Fortunately, NPU has a lot of things to offer that young Swedes really like, a good soccer program being one of them.

[KICKIN95]

.[/quote]

Correlation does not equal causation. And since NPU's been in the last three tourneys, I'd say that the Vikings have qualified as a "reoccurring" [sic] presence in November.



Better check your dictionary before throwing an [sic] on it.  Making the tourney 3 years in a row and bowing out in the first and second rounds is hardly a presence.

[OskeeHawk]

Being a Loras fan/alum this is hard to stand up for wheaton but I find it funny the line of hard getting Wheaton fans to care. That might be one of the coolest settings for a d3 soccer match. And I argue that they don't really care about north park that much because they have only been pseudo relevant for 7 years.
Respect is gained on the field not a t-shirt, if Born really did say that, that's just dumb.

[Jim Matson]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the statement sounds dumb, but it is really a keen observation. Wheaton does indeed respect North Park soccer and has for quite some time.

But as Greg implied, some of this North Park/Wheaton thing is subtle, and has developed over time - and is probably meaningless and odd to those outside the discuss.

I think this kind of thing happens for many programs: one team in the conference dominates the other. Then, over time, the weaker team gets better and begins to give the historically stronger team some pain. After the original response of denial, a few losses by the strong team to the weaker team, and what do you know? Denial turns to respect, and a rivalry is created.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the statement sounds dumb, but it is really a keen observation. Wheaton does indeed respect North Park soccer and has for quite some time.

But as Greg implied, some of this North Park/Wheaton thing is subtle, and has developed over time - and is probably meaningless and odd to those outside the discuss.

I think this kind of thing happens for many programs: one team in the conference dominates the other. Then, over time, the weaker team gets better and begins to give the historically stronger team some pain. After the original response of denial, a few losses by the strong team to the weaker team, and what do you know? Denial turns to respect, and a rivalry is created.

Good post!  I recall arguing with CardinalAlum on the football board that the Big 4/Little 4 was still reality right up to about half way thru NCC's 3rd consecutive (of now 7, or is it 8?) football titles!  NCC had been a near-doormat team for so many years, it took a LONG time for the change to register.

iwu70 and I are of an era where Millikin was IWU's absolute top rival (that is the era of Millikin's Jesse Price, arguably the best bball player in CCIW history, whereas IWU was THE overall dominant bball team).  Now Millikin has been irrelevant for so long, I'm not sure current students consider them a rival at all (except in football, where IWU usually wins, but the games are almost always closer than they should be 'on paper').