CCIW

[OskeeHawk]

Yeah I guess I just find it more funny of a statement than anything.
Totally agree that it takes time for rivalries to get going but I think those being chased always have a little bit of an edge.

[Gregory Sager]

Correlation does not equal causation. And since NPU's been in the last three tourneys, I'd say that the Vikings have qualified as a "reoccurring" [sic] presence in November.

Better check your dictionary before throwing an [sic] on it.  Making the tourney 3 years in a row and bowing out in the first and second rounds is hardly a presence.

I don't think you realize what sic means. It means that the word in front of it has been quoted verbatim, usually indicating a spelling, lexical, or grammatical error. In this case, I used it because "reoccurring" is not a word. The word you're looking for is recurring.

And three straight appearances is a presence. It may not be a strong presence, but a presence it is.

Being a Loras fan/alum this is hard to stand up for wheaton but I find it funny the line of hard getting Wheaton fans to care. That might be one of the coolest settings for a d3 soccer match.

What does one thing have to do with the other? Yes, Joe Bean Stadium is a fantastic soccer stadium. No doubt about that at all. But having a great facility doesn't ipso facto mean that you're going to have a great fanbase.

Wheaton fans do turn out for soccer, I'll give them that. It's usually one of the top schools in D3 in terms of attendance, as far as soccer is concerned. But it's a sit-on-their-hands crowd. That's generally true of Wheaton fans in all sports.

And I argue that they don't really care about north park that much because they have only been pseudo relevant for 7 years.
Respect is gained on the field not a t-shirt, if Born really did say that, that's just dumb.

Wow, OskeeHawk. Way to completely miss the gist of the conversation. The point here is that Wheaton really does care about NPU now. Nor has NPU "only been psuedo relevant for 7 years." NPU first wrested the CCIW title away from Wheaton nine years ago, breaking a string of nine consecutive seasons in which Wheaton either shared the CCIW title or won it outright.

But you needn't take my word for it. Jim Matson's not only the d3soccer.com site administrator, he's also a Wheaton soccer alumnus.

[OskeeHawk]

You'll have to forgive my math on the 7 versus 9 years, those private college math skills catching up to me again

Let's pose this question, what are everyone's feelings on schools 'caring' about what other schools are doing? Is this the schools fan base, coaches or both?
Personally I would like to think that the coaches worry about their programs and running it their way and going out on the field and seeing what happens. Versus caring about what other programs are doing and getting wrapped up in all of that.

[Gregory Sager]

I honestly don't think that John Born spends any time at all worrying about what Wheaton is doing. Why should he? It's completely out of his control. And I'm willing to bet that Michael Giuliano feels the same way about North Park. A good coach tends to his own business, because that's what you can control. It's not as though Born and Giuliano are going head-to-head for recruits. At least, I don't think that they are.

I know that John Born loves the rivalry, though, because it's a great motivational source for his players and a great draw for the NPU fanbase. I honestly don't know how Michael Giuliano feels about it, nor how Joe Bean felt about it before him. On the one hand, I could picture Joe Bean being annoyed at having an interloper at the top of a league that was once his private playground. But NPU's success has been a fact since before Giuliano took over the Wheaton program six years ago, so I'm sure that he views the NPU/WC rivalry differently than his predecessor did. I suspect that he might enjoy it, because: a) it provides the same motivational factor for his players that it does for their NPU counterparts; and b) it ratchets up the excitement among his team's fanbase (as was evidenced a week ago Saturday), same as it does for their NPU counterparts.

A strong archrivalry can be a pretty productive thing for the two schools involved. Look at how Calvin and Hope have made hay out of their rivalry over the years, as have Williams and Amherst, Wabash and DePauw, etc. It's a great rallying point for the schools involved.

[OskeeHawk]

Couldn't agree more with the motivational factor for sure.
Rivalries are definitely a good thing to build excitement and with the more rivalries I think the credibility of the conference goes up as well.
I think all the good/great coaches in any sport could give a rip what other programs do. They may steal an idea or two here and there but tweak everything for their specific program. Coaches that struggle are ones that try to emulate others to a t and have no idea how to make it work for their program. I believe this leads to programs spinning their wheels and having no identity of their own all.

[markerickson]

I question Greg's take on the extent to which the Swedish government funds college education.  I may be wrong, but I thought NPU AD Surridge told me last year at a soccer game that the gov't doles out the entitlement program to college students with the expectation that he/she pays the balance over one's lifetime, thereby not saddling the student with crushing debt.  Since the kronor goes further these days with the American economy in decline, an American education in Chicago is attractive for several reasons, as Greg noted.  That said, how about North Park save money by eliminating the football team and sponsoring hockey so as to not only get more tuition dollars per athlete (guaranteed by the Swedish gov't), but also field a top-notch team?  Hjalmarsson, Lidstrom, Erikson, et. al. can kick in some seed money.  Throw in a Finn (like Niemi) for color.  There are very few postsecondary hockey teams in Illinois...Lake Forest and ?.  Grab some Minnesotans as well.

[Gregory Sager]

I question Greg's take on the extent to which the Swedish government funds college education.  I may be wrong, but I thought NPU AD Surridge told me last year at a soccer game that the gov't doles out the entitlement program to college students with the expectation that he/she pays the balance over one's lifetime

Yes, that's true, Mark. It's called "paying taxes".

Since the kronor goes further these days with the American economy in decline, an American education in Chicago is attractive for several reasons, as Greg noted.  That said, how about North Park save money by eliminating the football team and sponsoring hockey so as to not only get more tuition dollars per athlete (guaranteed by the Swedish gov't), but also field a top-notch team?  Hjalmarsson, Lidstrom, Erikson, et. al. can kick in some seed money.  Throw in a Finn (like Niemi) for color.  There are very few postsecondary hockey teams in Illinois...Lake Forest and ?.  Grab some Minnesotans as well.

We've been over this before, Mark. NPU cannot and will not eliminate football. The CCIW requires its members to sponsor football, men's basketball, and baseball.

[Thunder1]

"The Wheaton crowd cheered wildly" ... five words that have probably never appeared in the same sentence before.

Touché on that one Sager. Most Wheaties are to busy studying or sipping latte's to care about a sporting event although they do tend to show up for "title" games. It has been that way for many years. Not sure why...

[KICKIN95]

[/quote]

I don't think you realize what sic means. It means that the word in front of it has been quoted verbatim, usually indicating a spelling, lexical, or grammatical error. In this case, I used it because "reoccurring" is not a word. The word you're looking for is recurring.

And three straight appearances is a presence. It may not be a strong presence, but a presence it is.

I am well aware of what [sic] means.  You are correct that "recurring" is the proper word, but "reoccurring" is actually a word that has found it's way into the english language.  The word may not be accepted by Oxford, but it is found and described in precisely the same manor as "recurring"
Main Entry:   reoccur  [uh-kur]  Show IPA
Part of Speech:   verb
Definition:   return
Synonyms:   come back, go back, hark back, inverse, invert, lapse, recrudesce, recur, regress, relapse, resume, retrograde, retrogress, revert

when you go the extra mile to throw an [sic] at someone in a post you come across as extremely arrogant.  If I were writing a novel or even a sports article (which most these days are atrocious in their attempts at spelling and grammar) I might be a bit more attentive to the details, but when I use an acceptable word (apparently not by you) and you decide that you want to become my personal english professor it is more than a bit annoying.

[Ibar]

I am late to the party, but I have a few thoughts on the whole Wheaton/NPU rivalry...

First of all, There have always been teams in the CCIW that have come up and challenged Wheaton. Augustana, Carthage and North Park have been the main ones that challenged in the past but usually it was just for a season or two and then the next one would come up. Born and North Park have bucked that trend and are a legitimate threat every year at this point. The rest of the CCIW will produce a team or two every few years, but it is pretty much just Wheaton and North Park now which is an upgrade from just Wheaton.

As far as the Swede stuff goes, I could care less where their players come from. Nothing will change with that, and frankly, it is not like they are getting some crazy advantage from it. As someone stated before, they have yet to make any noise in the NCAA tourney. They are extremely relevant in the CCIW, but not nationally yet. If they keep making the tourney and have a nice run, then they will be there.

After NPU broke through against Wheaton around 04/05 (I was there for that unfortunately) most people around Wheaton figured it was a fluke. Those NPU teams were tough and defended for the majority of the games in their half but had some good strikers that were opportunistic. The NPU teams now are more well rounded and better for sure. North Park has clearly proved that it has staying power.

It has become a rivalry and I sense the current Wheaton teams do see it that way. It took us Wheatonites a while to come around and admit it but NPU is a true perennial challenger in the conference. It has been nice to see Wheaton bounce back after the last few disappointing seasons and will be interesting to see how things play out over the next few years with the strong young team Wheaton has.

[augie77]

As the parent of a Wheaton player I can assure you Wheaton takes North Park seriously, and enjoys the rivalry.  I consider it good for both teams and for D3 soccer in general.

Agreed, it doesn't matter where the players grew up, though the current demographics do lend themselves to more flag-waving fun.

Wheaton has been on a roll lately.  13 game unbeaten streak; has outscored its opponents 18-1 over the last 527 minutes, going back seven games.  I hope this translates to continued success over the week-end....  Wheaton suffered early losses to both Dominican and Loras.

[d3fan1]

Hollingsworth scores to put Wheaton up 1-0 over Dominican!

[d3fan1]

Wheaton advances 1-0 in a very exciting and well played game.

[markerickson]

Nothing posted in over a week?

[blue_jays]

Congrats to Wheaton on a great season. Young team with plenty of potential for the future. Big question mark in goal now, though.