CCIW

[Gregory Sager]

Our conference is tough.  5 teams in the top 10 of the central region.  Didn't see Wheaton losing to Carthage though.  Kudos to Carthage!

Some of us can remember when CCIW soccer consisted of Wheaton and a bunch of schools that were just sponsoring soccer teams for the heck of it. In fact, the league didn't even get up to the full eight teams until a decade ago, when the last holdout school (Elmhurst) finally added soccer. Then it was (mostly) Wheaton and North Park and a bunch of schools that were just sponsoring soccer teams for the heck of it. Then Carthage and Elmhurst got competitive. Now we've reached the point where nobody's a gimme anymore; all eight programs have reached the level of general respectability and competitiveness.

This is what a lot of us have been waiting for for a long time.

[MidwestAficionado]

Our conference is tough.  5 teams in the top 10 of the central region.  Didn't see Wheaton losing to Carthage though.  Kudos to Carthage!

Some of us can remember when CCIW soccer consisted of Wheaton and a bunch of schools that were just sponsoring soccer teams for the heck of it. In fact, the league didn't even get up to the full eight teams until a decade ago, when the last holdout school (Elmhurst) finally added soccer. Then it was (mostly) Wheaton and North Park and a bunch of schools that were just sponsoring soccer teams for the heck of it. Then Carthage and Elmhurst got competitive. Now we've reached the point where nobody's a gimme anymore; all eight programs have reached the level of general respectability and competitiveness.

This is what a lot of us have been waiting for for a long time.

Competitiveness certainly, respectability no. Some of these programs are stuck in kickball/hockey mode. Given the facilities and profiles of the school, quality of play should be much higher across all programs. But alas most of the energy is put into "whatever it takes to win"

[SuperSub15]

Midwest can you give examples on your opinion? Wheaton is a possession based team who move the ball well. They have one of the fastest players I have ever seen on dribble in Hollingsworth. North Park is high energy, possession based with guys who can shoot well. From the games I have seen Carthage plays a similar way. They out possessed Wheaton first half of Wednesday's game. This was the same for wins against Wartburg and St.Thomas. Just wanted to get your opinion on specific examples.

[Durantula]

I have watched Wartburg all year, and Carthage has the best possession out of any team that they have played in my opinion. Better than Gustavus, St Thomas, Luther, St Olaf.


I cannot believe that Carthage had to forfeit their first two games for such a stupid reason. They would be in a good spot for an at-large bid with those two wins but are practically out of the at large race after the forfeits.

[lastguyoffthebench]

Way late to the punch bowl here... what do the Wheaton supporters out there think of Montclair St?   I don't think there was a live video feed, as all I can remember was watching the live stats update like a basketball score.


Aside from the end result, which teams have looked the best vs Wheaton this year?

[MidwestAficionado]

Midwest can you give examples on your opinion? Wheaton is a possession based team who move the ball well. They have one of the fastest players I have ever seen on dribble in Hollingsworth. North Park is high energy, possession based with guys who can shoot well. From the games I have seen Carthage plays a similar way. They out possessed Wheaton first half of Wednesday's game. This was the same for wins against Wartburg and St.Thomas. Just wanted to get your opinion on specific examples.

Have seen mostly all of the CCIW teams this year except for Millikin and Carthage. In years past, despite having quality players, Carthage was very direct and athletic, almost bypassing the midfield. Their offsides numbers this year are far decreased as a testament to that. From what I've seen from the others - NCC, Elmhurst, Augie, IWU - its not much build up and mostly long ball, try to run behind, high press type soccer. Meaning possessions end after about 3-4 passes because of a lack of rhythm or ability.

Maybe I picked the wrong games to attend, but that is what I've seen. I have an appreciation for teams who try to string 8-10 passes together and move the ball as a team. I also understand the long ball is effective against teams that high press. But there needs to be a balance, not just "hey lets hit it long for 90 minutes and we should get 1 or 2." We are a better soccer nation than that and should demand a higher level of quality.

[Gregory Sager]

Our conference is tough.  5 teams in the top 10 of the central region.  Didn't see Wheaton losing to Carthage though.  Kudos to Carthage!

Some of us can remember when CCIW soccer consisted of Wheaton and a bunch of schools that were just sponsoring soccer teams for the heck of it. In fact, the league didn't even get up to the full eight teams until a decade ago, when the last holdout school (Elmhurst) finally added soccer. Then it was (mostly) Wheaton and North Park and a bunch of schools that were just sponsoring soccer teams for the heck of it. Then Carthage and Elmhurst got competitive. Now we've reached the point where nobody's a gimme anymore; all eight programs have reached the level of general respectability and competitiveness.

This is what a lot of us have been waiting for for a long time.

Competitiveness certainly, respectability no. Some of these programs are stuck in kickball/hockey mode. Given the facilities and profiles of the school, quality of play should be much higher across all programs. But alas most of the energy is put into "whatever it takes to win"

You and I apparently don't agree upon what constitutes respectability. Is the CCIW up to par yet in soccer with how it performs in the other major sports? I'd say no (although the league has looked abnormally poor in football this season). Is the CCIW up to the level in soccer in which each of the league's teams should, and do, win most of their matches? Yes. This year seven of the eight CCIW sides had winning non-conference records, while the eighth, Illinois Wesleyan, finished .500. That's never happened before.

Yeah, it's a minimal respectability when compared to the CCIW's performance in other sports, but it's respectability, nonetheless.

[MidwestAficionado]

[/quote]
You and I apparently don't agree upon what constitutes respectability. Is the CCIW up to par yet in soccer with how it performs in the other major sports? I'd say no (although the league has looked abnormally poor in football this season). Is the CCIW up to the level in soccer in which each of the league's teams should, and do, win most of their matches? Yes. This year seven of the eight CCIW sides had winning non-conference records, while the eighth, Illinois Wesleyan, finished .500. That's never happened before.

Yeah, it's a minimal respectability when compared to the CCIW's performance in other sports, but it's respectability, nonetheless.
[/quote]

Craig's brother... You're defining respectability as the ability of the CCIW's teams to have winning records. To me that's competitiveness/success/smart scheduling.

I'm defining respectability not as an acknowledgement of their ability to win games, but how they play the games.

We have different definitions. I stand by what I said. I'm not here to say they shouldn't be respected for their ability to win games, they are very competitive/result-oriented units. But their approach to the game and tactics employed do not get my respect.

[Gregory Sager]

You're defining respectability as the ability of the CCIW's teams to have winning records. To me that's competitiveness/success/smart scheduling.

I'm defining respectability not as an acknowledgement of their ability to win games, but how they play the games.

I'm well aware of what constitutes our differing definitions of respectability. After all, I'm the one who pointed it out in the first place.

We have different definitions. I stand by what I said. I'm not here to say they shouldn't be respected for their ability to win games, they are very competitive/result-oriented units. But their approach to the game and tactics employed do not get my respect.

Sure, but you're one person. In the larger view, I'm certain that yours is a minority opinion.

I'm not denigrating that minority opinion, mind you. There's certainly room in sports fandom for those who put the highest premium upon aesthetics. But for most of us, sports are bottom-line propositions. Winning and losing are what matters. And for those of us who follow multiple sports rather than just one, our barometer for how our league does in one sport tends to reflect how it does in others as well.

[MidwestAficionado]

You're defining respectability as the ability of the CCIW's teams to have winning records. To me that's competitiveness/success/smart scheduling.

I'm defining respectability not as an acknowledgement of their ability to win games, but how they play the games.

I'm well aware of what constitutes our differing definitions of respectability. After all, I'm the one who pointed it out in the first place.

We have different definitions. I stand by what I said. I'm not here to say they shouldn't be respected for their ability to win games, they are very competitive/result-oriented units. But their approach to the game and tactics employed do not get my respect.

Sure, but you're one person. In the larger view, I'm certain that yours is a minority opinion.

I'm not denigrating that minority opinion, mind you. There's certainly room in sports fandom for those who put the highest premium upon aesthetics. But for most of us, sports are bottom-line propositions. Winning and losing are what matters. And for those of us who follow multiple sports rather than just one, our barometer for how our league does in one sport tends to reflect how it does in others as well.

Either way the CCIW's respectability took a hit today with NPU losing to Dominican

[Gregory Sager]

No question about that. Most years, a close loss to Dominican wouldn't be that terrible a result. But this DU team is, by everyone's estimation, down from years previous.

NPU has been very inconsistent lately, and it's coming close to costing the Vikings their entire safety margin as far as Pool C is concerned. Those who are more attuned to the way soccer's selection committee thinks may differ, but to me it appears that NPU may now be dangerously on the edge of a must-win-out scenario.

[FR_Sam]

Mr. Sager and Aficionado,

I think you guys need to look into Dominican's record against the CCIW over the years.  They have a winning record against NPU, Wheaton, Elmhurst, Wesleyan, NCC, etc.  This year, Dominican was up on Wheaton 1-0 (but did lose 2-1 on a goal late, I believe around the 80' or 81').  They obviously beat NPU and tied Elmhurst and lost a tight match with NCC.  I don't think a loss to Dominican is ever a terrible loss nor does a loss to Dominican mean a hit to the CCIW credibility.  Dominican has talent and a coaching staff that knows how to game plan and players that can then execute.  That is always a recipe for teams that will be in matches and be in position to get wins.

[Gregory Sager]

Mr. Sager and Aficionado,

I think you guys need to look into Dominican's record against the CCIW over the years.

I don't need to do any such thing. I have plenty of respect for DU's soccer program. That's why I said this:

Most years, a close loss to Dominican wouldn't be that terrible a result.

This year, Dominican was up on Wheaton 1-0 (but did lose 2-1 on a goal late, I believe around the 80' or 81').  They obviously beat NPU and tied Elmhurst and lost a tight match with NCC.  I don't think a loss to Dominican is ever a terrible loss nor does a loss to Dominican mean a hit to the CCIW credibility.  Dominican has talent and a coaching staff that knows how to game plan and players that can then execute.  That is always a recipe for teams that will be in matches and be in position to get wins.

The consensus among people who have seen the Stars is that they're having a down year. The evidence seems to bear this out:

2014: 10-4-2
2013: 12-5-2
2012: 18-3-0
2011: 19-3-0
2010: 19-1-2

Among the blemishes are a tie with 6-5-2 Wash U (currently inhabiting last place in the UAA) and a loss to Benedictine (8-6-1). While the Stars are hardly in the dumpster, they do appear to have fallen off from their recent standards. NPU should've won yesterday, and the fact that the Vikings didn't in a game in which they had twice as many shots as the Stars bodes ill for them.

[MidwestAficionado]

Mr. Sager and Aficionado,

I think you guys need to look into Dominican's record against the CCIW over the years.  They have a winning record against NPU, Wheaton, Elmhurst, Wesleyan, NCC, etc.  This year, Dominican was up on Wheaton 1-0 (but did lose 2-1 on a goal late, I believe around the 80' or 81').  They obviously beat NPU and tied Elmhurst and lost a tight match with NCC.  I don't think a loss to Dominican is ever a terrible loss nor does a loss to Dominican mean a hit to the CCIW credibility.  Dominican has talent and a coaching staff that knows how to game plan and players that can then execute.  That is always a recipe for teams that will be in matches and be in position to get wins.

You mean the Wheaton match where DU was outshot 21-4? I was at the game, had DU not scored a weak goal against the run of play, it would have been a 3+ loss easily.

Dominican has certainly fallen off some. They were dismantled 4-0 in the NCAA first round by Wartburg last year and have lost to Benedictine two years in a row. Far cry from their annual 11-0 run through conference of yesteryears. Not to mention they are looking at a likely 3rd place finish in the NAC unless they can knockoff undefeated MSOE.

Not saying they're bad, simply saying they're not what they once were. If you can't admit that then you're simply a homer. And losing to them is not a good result for an NPU team trying to position for an at large...

[FR_Sam]

I don't understand how taking a Dominican goal off the board makes a 2-1 match, 3-0...did the goal they scored end up being put in their own goal?  Wheaton only managed to put 5 shots on goal in that match.  Dominican will give up shots but does not give up quality chances, that will keep matches low scoring and allow them a chance to be in every match.

You may need to give the rest of the NACC top teams more credit rather than discrediting Dominican. MSOE has been a quality opponent for the last couple of years.  Benedictine has gotten much more organized and has landed much more talent the last couple of recruiting cycles.

You still can't deny that Dominican is 2-2-1 against North Park, Wheaton, Elmhurst, North Central and IWU.  The top three teams in the conference and NCC who in all likelihood will finish in or near the top four in the conference this season.