Pool C -- 2009

[usee]

I'm fascinated by the process as well.  I just think it's not all listed criteria (human element is involved at some level)....

I agree with this...there is human discretion involved and That's precisely why the regional committee ranked ONU ahead of Otterbein.

I also only know of 1 situation where a 2 loss team got in over a 1 loss team and that was UWEC over Whitworth  2 years ago. It should be noted, however that Whitwarth had 2 losses but 1 was to an NAIA team (and shouldn't be counted in the criteria). I am not convinced the national committee would take a 2 loss team over a 1 loss team no matter the criteria.

[wally_wabash]

Losing to Marietta specifically is not one of the criteria...but losing to Marietta clearly (and justly IMO) gets you crushed in the regional rankings which impacts your access to the tournament. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

USee, were there NO 1-loss teams remaining when Wheaton got in last year?  (Real question; I can't recall.)

One thing being overlooked concerning OTT: their SOS (,502) is FAR below NCC (,585), Wheaton (.583), and ONU (.571).

[usee]

Ypsi,

Correct. To my knowledge there were none left (and historically as well). I actually thought it had never happened and Pat gave me the UWEC over whitworth example.

[Ralph Turner]

I don't have time to look at work, but we can check the 2008 Pool C discussions on that message board and the Daily Dose discussions.

we ought to coin a term that describes how three or four teams knock wach other out and allow another team from another region to slip into the field.

I believe we had a simliar situaiton in the WIAC in basketball (2008?).  Two or three WIAC/CCIW teams knocked each other out.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't have time to look at work, but we can check the 2008 Pool C discussions on that message board and the Daily Dose discussions.

we ought to coin a term that describes how three or four teams knock wach other out and allow another team from another region to slip into the field.

I believe we had a simliar situaiton in the WIAC in basketball (2008?).  Two or three WIAC/CCIW teams knocked each other out.

Don't recall the details, but certainly remember the situation.  It was two WIAC teams - Team A had clearly better overall credentials, but had been swept by Team B (which was on the bubble).  There wasn't room to take both, so the committee took neither.

While I expect ONU to squeeze in, an ONU/Ott/NCC rerun of that scenario would not surprise me either.

[HScoach]

Losing to Marietta specifically is not one of the criteria...but losing to Marietta clearly (and justly IMO) gets you crushed in the regional rankings which impacts your access to the tournament. 

I agree 100%.  A team worthy of being regionally ranked doesn't lose to someone as bad a Marietta.

[Frank Rossi]

Sunday on a special "Selection Sunday" edition of "In the HuddLLe" at http://inthehuddlle.com, we will be joined by Joy Solomen, this year's NCAA Division III Football Championship Committee Chairwoman.  She will discuss the bracketing process -- from selection of the Field of 32 to the placement and seeding of those teams.

In order to make the interview more interactive, we would ask those with questions to post those questions between 3:30pm EST and 5:00pm EST to the "East Region Playoffs" message board on Sunday (following the release of the brackets).  We will not just focus on the Liberty League team in the mix or even just the East Region -- we will discuss any surprises and concerns that become evident once the brackets are released.

In addition to Chairwoman Solomen, we will interview Liberty League Commissioner Timothy Danehy, speak with the coach of the Liberty League team that wins tomorrow's League Championship Game and discuss the team the Liberty League participant will face.  Please join us starting at 7:30pm EST at http://inthehuddlle.com (or for the archive starting at around 10:00pm EST).

[K-Mack]

The problem Redlands has is that as soon as they beat CalLu, CalLu is no longer regionally ranked. 

If we assume that the pool C teams right now would be St. Thomas, Coe, the Albright/LVC winner, Wabash, and UMHB (which is how it would seem to play out given the stats we have at this moment), then the next four on the board are (in no order):
Montclair State
ONU
Redlands
Dickinson

Of those four, Redlands has the lowest SOS (which will get a boost this weekend) and doesn't have a win over a regionally ranked team.  I think Redlands can get to the table, but I don't think they would be selected without some help (i.e. Coe or St. Thomas losing). 

Of couse---Montclaire State will either be a Pool A (NJAC winner) or will have a 2nd loss, ONU already has 2 losses, and Dickinson has what looks like a tough game against Ursinus....  BUT, I still think the biggest problem for Redlands will be their location and the NCAA not wanting fly two SCIAC teams (nor rematch them a week after they play each other)

I liked your last-four-on-the-table analysis, but I think there's a disconnect in your "not wanting to fly" theory.

The selection committee is made up of coaches and administrators who want to see the most deserving teams picked, because they're all in the same boat ... they wouldn't want to see their own school screwed over geography or what have you.

So I think the people who put the 32 teams in the field aren't as concerned about who has to fly when they select the teams; and not even as much when they seed them.

We learned this last year when Pat and ESPN got the bracket that had Aurora and Monmouth flying to Oxy and Willamette, and sometime between then and when they went on the air, the bracket became Monmouth v. Aurora and Oxy v. Willamette.

In other words, the selection committee's heart is in the right place, but there is apparently a level of approval that the final bracket has to go through, and that's where the penny-pinching comes in.

So I don't think the committee -- of which Redlands coach Mike Maynard is a member, I might add; pretty sure he has to recuse himself though -- would go out of its way not to put Redlands in if they were deserving on the criteria.

The problem in your above scenario is more likely that ONU gets in first.

[Bob.Gregg]

Here's a pdf (4 pages) with all the races in one place.

Division III Races

I'll be in later today and will update as we move through the night.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

+k nice work Bob.

[Nihon Tiger]

We learned this last year when Pat and ESPN got the bracket that had Aurora and Monmouth flying to Oxy and Willamette, and sometime between then and when they went on the air, the bracket became Monmouth v. Aurora and Oxy v. Willamette.

I had almost forgotten that happened.  I was having such a nice night, and I just HAD to check post patterns before bed

[Jeremybozz]

Otterbein down 13-10 at the half.

[Ralph Turner]

Maine Maritime beats Curry to impose some 500-mile limits on the brackets.

[Bob.Gregg]

All races now decided (as of 7:30 pm, Saturday).

Pool A-B-C Races

Pool C comes down to this:

7 one-loss teams for 6 spots.  I've also included the two-loss teams:

"East"
Albright (9-1) (win Saturday)
Plymouth State (8-2)
Kean (8-2) (lost Saturday)
Lebanon Valley (8-2) (lost Saturday)

"South"
Mary Hardin-Baylor (9-1) (win Saturday)
Washington & Jefferson (9-1) (win Saturday)
Dickinson (8-2) (lost Saturday)
Franklin & Marshall (8-2) (win Saturday)

"North"
Wabash (9-1) (win Saturday)
Ohio Northern (8-2) (win Saturday)
Otterbein (8-2) (win Saturday)
North Central (8-2) (win Saturday)

"West"
St. Thomas (9-1) (win Saturday)
Coe (9-1) (win Saturday)
St. Norbert (9-1)
Concordia (Ill) (8-2) (lost Saturday)
Willamette (8-2) (win Saturday)
Occidental (7-2) (win Saturday)