University of New Orleans & D3-D1

[Tacttm1]

Moderator's note:  The UNO topics on the Message Boards have been merged for sake of continuity. Thanks to Tacttm1 for picking up the discussion.  --Ralph Turner

Making this a new thread:

Pat and All:

I am usually on the SCAC Football Board, but since my Alma Mater is preparing for the trek to DIII, I thought I'd add some information and ask some questions.

 In no particular order:

Current enrollment at University of New Orleans is at 11,000  (verified through UNO registrar and Chancellor)

The Chancellor reports that he has been in discussions with the American Southwest Conference about that being a D# home, saying that even if UNO were invited, it would be at least 3 years down the road.

The athletic budget of just over 3 Million dollars would put UNO in the top of D3 programs, while that same amount has UNO at the median of the fourth quartile of D1 schools; this according to the Chancellor based on NCAA audit numbers.

UNO has officially withdrawn from the Sunbelt Conference and will play "whoever" they can next year and following years while 'new' sports are added, applications to D3 and Conferences are made.

Applications for a new AD are being accepted now.

The existing Basketball Coach did indeed make disparaging remarks about D3 and these feelings are shared by many in the ranks of supporters (mostly because of ignorance and hurt feelings from the classification change process)

As I am unfamiliar with the ASWC, is there indeed an opening that would suit a large metro school like UNO??  

Fan support (attendance and financially) is weak, at best...the comuter shool situation is difficult, as are the numerous distractions and outlets for time, energy and money in New Orleans.


The switch to D3 for UNO is a done deal; now the process of riding out D1, building back the required number of sports and seeking a 'new home' begins.  In a State where universities and colleges are having another round of layoffs this month due to immediate budget and spending cuts, it 'ain't' a lot of fun.

As supporters of the athletes themselves, all of us who post here must imagine the difficulty, pain and anger having this occur during your season or final couple years of eligibility must cause.

I welcome your comments and any insights you all may have on any of this.

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks for starting this thread, and for the informative post about UNO's current status.

You're in luck in that one of the most frequent contributors to these boards is our resident expert on the ASC, Ralph Turner. He's an alumnus of McMurry University, one of the ASC's members, and he's also very conversant with the D3 transition process (including the four-year probationary period). No doubt he'll be chiming in here shortly.

[Tacttm1]

I certainly hope so, Mr. Sager.  There is plenty of mis-information going around in the UNO sports community along with a general distrust of the Chancellor's announcements (long story!!)

[Ralph Turner]

Just saw the email.

I have several big projects on my plate at this time, but I will get some material to you soon.

Part of the information deals with Centenary and their reclasssification to D-III.

You can glean a lot of information from those sources.

Glad to have you.  D-III is a lot of fun.  It seem to be a more collegial group of fans.

Someone mentioned the fun thing about Rugby...a good chance to run in the mud, get dirty, burn off some energy and then go share some liquid refreshment with the guy whose head you busted in about 15 mintues ago.  For us on these boards, the camaraderie is special to us.

[Tacttm1]

Thanks, Ralph.

I am no stranger to D3, so I agree with you on the assessment of the fans.  I am a regular contributor to the Board on the SCAC Football forum. 

Here is a link to my favorite post from last season, it will give you an idea of how I see things in "our" world:  about halfway down the page:
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4753.7935

I am looking forward to your info whenever you get a chance....I am stating to consider myself a D3 ambassador to help sooth some very hurt folks.

TT1

[Ralph Turner]

Here are the discussions and blogs dealing with the reclassification of Centenary and UNO.

Centenary in Jun 2009.

http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/06/04/making-the-case-for-centenary-la-and-d-iii/#comments  

(The comments on this blog were copied from the Shreveport Times before they were made "unavailable".)

There are UNO discussions on another message board.


UNO has the luxury of being able to get release from the Sun Belt Conference this spring.  Centenary is contracted with the Summit League thru 2011-12.  That may delay their re-classification.  One thought that I had is that the Summit League will decide whether they want to fly to Shreveport for the sake of a game.  If the travel budgets warrant, then Centenary might be released from its 2011-12 obligation.

IMHO, the ASC would jump at the chance to get Centenary.  On I-20, in a 110 mile stretch, you have UT-Tyler, LeTourneau in Longview, East Texas Baptist in Marshall and Centenary in Shreveport.  That would give a very compact ASC-East.  Travel partners would include Mississippi College/Louisiana College, UT-Dallas/UOzarks, UT-Tyler/LeTU, ETBU/Centenary.

UNO is another matter.  It is a three hour drive from Mississippi College and Louisiana College.  I wonder how bad the budget crunch really is at UNO.  Can the school even afford to keep its doors open?  I don't know.

Who will schedule UNO?  I think that they can get games with the GSAC schools in January and February.  They may also get games with NAIA schools in the Louisiana in the late season.

The 5-year plan for UNO is to be in conference in 2015-16.  I think that that is likely.  Here is a schedule for UNO.

2010-11 Exploratory year for re-classification
2011-12 First year as a proivisional in the re-classification process.
2012-13 Second year.
2013-14 Third year as a provisional in the re-classification.  Games versus UNO will count towards in-region status.
2014-15 Fourth year.
2015-16 First year to be fully eligible.

When Birmingham-Southern announced the re-classification in May 2006, they dropped D-1 basketball for the 2006-07 season.


Another question is what other teams wish to move the D-III in this part of the country.  The ASC could split into 2 conferences if there were another 3-4 teams.

As for competition, UNO is most likely to get talented D-III students who don't have to go away to compete.  I think by 2017 UNO is a quality D-III program.

I agree with Pat Coleman.  I don't think that the student fee that is generating $3M for D-1 will be in effect at the D-III level.  Still, if they cut the fee by 1/3, then that is still $2M which can sponsor football.  However, varsity D-3 football might a reason to keep the student fee at its current level.

The wisdom of founding ASC Commissioner, the legendary  Fred Jacoby, was to always have 9-10 teams in the conference, to prevent one school from holding the conference hostage.  I think that wisdom is honored by ASC presidents.  Centenary would make 16. UNO would make 17.  I think that there need to be 2-3 more schools in this part of the country to move to D-III before the ASC were to split into 2 conferences.

Just some thoughts while tornados and major thunderstorms roll thru the county...  

[Ralph Turner]

Headed-for-D-III-New-Orleans-pulls-out-of-Sun-Belt

Click the underscore for the link location to front page story on D3hoops.com.

[Just Bill]

Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition. It would also seem some conferencess might be more interested in adding two schools rather than one to keep an even number of teams for scheduling purposes.

[Ron Boerger]

Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition. It would also seem some conferencess might be more interested in adding two schools rather than one to keep an even number of teams for scheduling purposes.

UNO is a large (for D3) public school, Centenary is an elite small private school.  Usually that's not an ideal combination for a rivalry.

I know Ralph and the ASC are lusting after Centenary, but IMO they're a better fit for the SCAC, especially should a Colorado College (or DePauw) want to change conference affilliations.  CC is on an island and would arguably be a better fit in D2 where they could greatly reduce their travel costs.  DPU may have an interest in going to the NCAC for similar reasons.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

[Ralph Turner]

Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition. It would also seem some conferencess might be more interested in adding two schools rather than one to keep an even number of teams for scheduling purposes.

UNO is a large (for D3) public school, Centenary is an elite small private school.  Usually that's not an ideal combination for a rivalry.

I know Ralph and the ASC are lusting after Centenary, but IMO they're a better fit for the SCAC, especially should a Colorado College (or DePauw) want to change conference affilliations.  CC is on an island and would arguably be a better fit in D2 where they could greatly reduce their travel costs.  DPU may have an interest in going to the NCAC for similar reasons.

Maybe not lusting,      but they would be an excellent addition.

I think that there are members in the Centenary family that see Centenary in the SCAC with their "academic" peers from the Associated Colleges of the South.

www.colleges.org

The ASC has wanted Centenary since its inception in D3.

Trinity "started" in the "ASC" when it was one of the founding schools of the TIAA 1976.

Austin College was a charter member of the TIAA and the ASC in 1996.

[BUBeaverFan]

I thought it was a foregone conclusion that with Earlham switching to the HCAC that Depauw was going to make the switch to the NCAC.

[David Collinge]

Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition.

In my time in New Orleans, I'm not sure I met five people who had a clear idea where Shreveport even was.  It's a lo-o-ong way away, and there is little or no cultural connection between the two cities.  This is in addition to the vastly different profiles of the two schools.  UNO's natural D3 rival should be Tulane, but that ship, unfortunately, has sailed.

I thought it was a foregone conclusion that with Earlham switching to the HCAC that Depauw was going to make the switch to the NCAC.

I haven't heard that, but so long as Wabash remains a member, it's certainly a logical move for the NCAC.

[Ron Boerger]

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

SCAC travel costs CC a fortune; every away game is a plane trip.  They still retain a couple of D1 sports so they're not all that in love with the 'pure' D3 model.  D2 would let them play a lot closer to home and financial considerations are a big concern in the Springs right now.  It's purely speculation but their presence in the SCAC is a complication for everyone else in the conference, travel-wise.  It might be that everyone, including CC, would be better served by their departure. 

[Ralph Turner]

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

SCAC travel costs CC a fortune; every away game is a plane trip.  They still retain a couple of D1 sports so they're not all that in love with the 'pure' D3 model.  D2 would let them play a lot closer to home and financial considerations are a big concern in the Springs right now.  It's purely speculation but their presence in the SCAC is a complication for everyone else in the conference, travel-wise.  It might be that everyone, including CC, would be better served by their departure.  

The other aspect about Colorado College is that their students only take one course at a time.  Absences lost due to travel are even more onerous in that curriculum.

CC's joining the Rocky Mountain AC would dramatically cut the amount of missed school time for all of the student-athletes on campus.

I have one other question for the NCAA experts.

There is no "D-II" Men's Ice Hockey.  If Colorado College were to re-classify to D-II for all other sports, would their D-1 Men's Ice Hockey program be required to "re-classify" to D-II and lose access to the post-season in the meantime?

How would the Women's D-1 Soccer Program be treated?  Would they be allowed to re-classify to D-II with the rest of the Women's programs?  Or, would the NCAA require or permit them to remain as D-I?